songs that sound like other songs

also it's the co-writer ed townsend who's suing this time, not the gaye estate. tho i'm sure the gaye estate are kicking themselves for not thinking of it first

problem is these juries don't usually get how music works

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41y29ZrZX2L._SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_FMwebp_.jpg

Yeah, it's the heirs of Ed Townsend – including his daughter and sole living heir, Kathryn Townsend Griffin.

Wait it’s a song released 10y ago !? Why now !?

They actually sued first in 2017 (the same year Sheeran settled the infringement suit around his song "Photograph"); the case was dismissed; they refiled the next year, and it's taken this long to get to trial for whatever reason.

Are musicians watching this thread and using it for ideas for lawsuits

I've never heard a note of his music, but I hate cases like this. There are so many common chord progressions and musical ideas that have been used over and over, encouraging litigation over them is a dangerous precedent.

Elvis Costello used to perform a version of "Alison" that segued into "Tracks of My Tears" and (one time I saw him) "Kid" by the Pretenders, too. Maybe other songs? Once you start skirting some really common chord progressions there are any number of songs that seemingly (and often misleadingly) overlap. I mean, the doo wop chord progression alone!

according to Wikipedia Ed Townsend died in 2003, so unless he plagiarized his own death, it’s another estate situation. maybe they could also sue Sheeran (plus the aforementioned Pete Townsend!) for plagiarizing his name.

I Wrote a Song by UK Eurovision hopeful Mae Muller sounds like I'm an Albatraoz by AronChupa.

The most egregious example of "copyright infringement" that I've seen like this was Joe Satriani claiming that Coldplay's "Viva La Vida" was identical to the former's "If I Could Fly". They were identical, exactly identical. The issue wasn't plagiarism imo, because I will not accept that Coldplay, either consciously or subconsciously, were inspired in any way by "If I Could Fly". The issue was simply that, if you're a pop songwriter, and you're aiming for "mass appeal", then your harmonic/melodic choices become massively reduced, and it stands to reason that we will see "1000 monkeys" scenarios emerge; Coldplay and Satriani arrived at the same chords/melody the same way that two pigs might arrive at the same truffle.

I did like the fact that Keith Richards, while recording "Bridges To Babylon", overheard his daughter humming "Constant Craving" and had a "holy shit" moment when he realised that there was a similar "same result" in the chorus of "Has Anybody Seen My Baby?", and the band subsequently reached out to k.d. lang to ensure that she was fairly compensated

Curious why you think compensating the other songwriter was fair in the latter case, but an egregious demand in the former? It's the same situation (a claimed coincidence).

Oh, my usage of the term "egregious" was not directed toward Satriani or his filing, but rather the egregiousness of the similarities between the two songs. They were and are actually identical

Yep, sorry – just realized that (I had actually typed a mea culpa, and you beat me to it!)

It's cool on a personal level that lang got a cut, but hard not to also see that gesture as kind of a bad precedent, I guess...

I mean, what is interesting to me is that (I thought) the entire purpose of copyright is to prevent bad actors from using that copyright for profit-- me making a drink at home, calling it Pepsi and selling it to you, i.e. One files a copyright for the purpose of protecting their product, one pursues litigation to protect their copyright lest it enter into a state of dilution. Not (I thought) for the purpose of chasing down unwitting plagiarists and shaking them down for cash

there's a lot of greed involved obv, but some of it also comes understandably from songwriters who aren't rich and just getting by thinking one of the songs they have a songwriting credit was plagiarized and made someone else a lot of money. hard to not want a piece of the pie, even if it was inadvertent.

me making a drink at home, calling it Pepsi and selling it to you

Well, that's trademark (which is different, and you actually can infringe as a matter of law without awareness that you're doing it)

I think it's not just greed, but also a kind of tunnelvision. From the wiki to "Viva La Vida":

In May 2009, Yusuf Islam stated that the song is very similar to his song "Foreigner Suite," recorded under his former stage name, Cat Stevens. He said "My son brought it to my attention and said: 'Doesn't that sound like 'Foreigner Suite?'"[69] Islam said that any legal action he might take "depends on how well Satriani does."[69] Coldplay drummer Will Champion denied the claim, stating, "We're confident we haven't done anything wrong."[70] In June 2009, Islam later said, "They did copy my song but I don't think they did it on purpose," adding, "I don't want them to think I am angry with them. I'd love to sit down and have a cup of tea with them and let them know it's okay."[71]

In a documentary for Sveriges Television (2011) American music professor Dr. Lawrence Ferrara showed that the melody structures of "Viva la Vida", "If I Could Fly" and "Foreigner Suite" were very similar to the composition "Se tu m'ami" by the Italian composer Giovanni Battista Pergolesi, who died in 1736. "Obviously this is a work that we would call in the 'public domain'", Dr. Ferrara said.

"Depends on how well Satriani does"?!? "They did copy my song"?!? Yeeesh

I like Dr. Ferrara's approach. We should find examples of every possible chord progression and melody that exists in songs that are PD so anybody accused of harmonic/melodic plagiarism can say "oh no, I didn't plagiarise that Marvin Gaye song, I actually plagiarised Verdi" (and then play the example)

I just did some quick Googling, and it appears (contra my understanding) that the "innocent infringer" defense to copyright infringement – i.e., lack of awareness of the prior work – isn't such a slam dunk after all, at least in the US, due to various legal developments in the past century.

Michael Jackson's "Will You Be There?" was a famous case of court finding "no actually, your song wasn't original either!", though not in an American court.

After seven years, an Italian court ruled in favor of Carrisi because Jackson failed to show up to court. In a follow-up case some months later, the court ruled in favor of Jackson and rejected the claim, stating that while the two songs were very similar, they both may have been inspired by The Ink Spots' 1939 hit "Bless You for Being an Angel".

Earth Angel C Am F G

Stand by Me C Am F G

Wonderful World C Am F G

Last Kiss C Am F G

Where Have all the Flowers Gone C Am F G

etc.

Let it Be C G Am F

No Woman No Cry C G Am F

I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For C G Am F

Don't Stop Believing C G Am F

etc.

fuck, i wrote a doo wop song about dismembering someone as a 20 something and played it for someone and they said "isn't that Oh, Donna?"

lots of those progressions just kinda...jump at you

Fwiw, here's what the plaintiffs' expert witness in the Sheeran case (the guy whom Sheeran said is "putting in notes to try and find similarities") had to say beyond the chord progressions:

Stewart told the jury that the 1973 hit and Sheeran's 2014 chart-topper "Thinking Out Loud" use nearly identical chord progressions and rhythmic anticipation.

Stewart also testified that he found similarities in the two songs' melodies, including the tune of their respective opening lines, "I've been really trying, baby" from "Let's Get It On" and "When your legs don't work like they used to before" from "Thinking Out Loud." He said the songs' choruses and interludes have similar pitch sequences as well, and that 70% of "Thinking Out Loud" is attributable to "Let's Get It On."

"These are similar melodies, and they're happening simultaneously with the same accompaniment," Stewart told the jury. "It's the same creative choices."

In cross-examination, the attorney for Sheeran and the music publishers:

pointed out that a combination of the same chord progression and rhythm used in "Let's Get It On" was present in multiple songs before 1973, including covers of "Georgy Girl" by the Seekers. (...) In opening arguments the day before, (the attorney had) told the jury that the tunes are "very, very different" and Stewart's melodic analysis is entirely without merit.

The chorus of "You've Got a Friend" and the verse of "Trains and Boats and Planes" use very similar melodies.

Jury deliberations in the Sheeran trial begin today. In y'day's closing arguments, Sheeran's attorney said – "If we start to dissect every song to hunt for similarities and hand out ownership to things as basic as chord progressions and the manner in which they are performed, nothing will be left for songwriters to create. You would be removing an essential element in every songwriter's tool kit. Is that really what we want to do to music?"

Sheeran wins! After 2.5 hrs of deliberations.

good, I think his attorney was exactly right in that statement

Sheeran guilty of seditious conspiracy!

Proud Boys not rip-off of Proud Mary!

The difference between “most other I-iii-IV-V songs” (substitute I6 for iii in the case of “Thinking…”; functionally the same chord)— the difference IS those anticipations. Drawing parallels between these songs and the standard earlier examples of songs with the same progression (“The Weight”, “Just Like A Woman”, “Ziggy Stardust”) only (to my ears) emphasizes the general “mood” similarities between Sheeran and Gaye, which are notable!

Glad Sheeran won and I hope that professor/expert witness has something shitty happen to him this year

This just in: Sheehan to start writing atonal aleatory 12-tone pieces inna Schoenberg stylee, accompanied by Yoko Ono screams and occaional input from Tibetan yak herders who do circular breathing, so as to never have to go through this shit again

what if this could lead to pop songwriters being forced into only using convoluted, lawsuit-safe chord progressions and everyone just gets acclimated to it?!!

Every pop song will sound like "Bitches Brew"

fievel is glauque would become the biggest band in the world!

My next song's chord progression will be I IV€ vii(dim) ii¤ IX X XI V(sus)

Gawd – it turns out there are still two more pending lawsuits over Sheeran's song, filed by Structured Asset Sales LLC, a firm which owns a portion of the Townsend estate's rights in "Let's Get It On."

I recently picked up Al Stewart's "Time Passages" and the opening of The Palace of Versailles is reminding me of Foxygen's Shuggie
(not the melody so much as the overall vibe... Al Stewart should get in touch with Ed Townsend's legal team)

Helloween's "Forever and One (Neverland)"'s chorus sounds very similar to "Lost in the Darkness" from Broadway musical Jekyll and Hyde.

Somehow I spent a significant chunk of my life never having heard "Islands In The Stream". And so for years I thought "Ghetto Supastar" was based on "It Must Have Been Love" by Roxette.

Here's another copyright infringement suit currently being litigated – Kristen Anderson-Lopez & Robert Lopez (and Disney) are defending a claim that this Frozen II song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS2hfKN9b7Y

...rips off a 1999 song that a guy uploaded on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7NM8B9B2mY

quite a stretch there

That's just the way it is

Some things will never change

um that song above sounds like Jill Sobule's "I Kissed a Girl"

(the riff, that is)

like the song above is so facelessly generic I'd be wary of suing anybody

The guy says in his complaint that when he saw the movie in the theater, his daughter turned him and said – “Dad, Disney took your song”…

Star witness

what if this could lead to pop songwriters being forced into only using convoluted, lawsuit-safe chord progressions and everyone just gets acclimated to it?!!

― Terrycoth Baphomet (bendy), Thursday, May 4, 2023 3:29 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

My next song's chord progression will be I IV€ vii(dim) ii¤ IX X XI V(sus)

― coolgnoscenti (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, May 4, 2023 4:05 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

fucking bring it on imo, i'm here for this

Honorable Judge Hongro presiding

hey