Posts you had second thought about and decided not to post - put them here

i dont recall that this even started with anyone accusing anyone of denying being rich so it is the easiest but least useful thing in the world to fling at the thread tbh

nb im not rich fwiw

i made a lot of them! but they never really got taken up

If your home (somehow, in the US) didn't keep up with inflation - it's still an asset. Those valuable old folks' homes going to seed are still valuable homes (and more importantly in cities and established suburbs - valuable plots of land) - "needs to be remodeled after meemaw and pop-pop die" doesn't render them somehow devoid of value.

I dunno, does land spoil after three days on the counter?

― papal hotwife (milo z)

in california sometimes it slides into the ocean, and you’re still on the hook for it! then what’s it worth? nothing, it’s a liability

is this common? idk probably more common as climate change heats up. but you guys want to be all or nothing, like the fine edge of the slicey boi. i’m just pushing back and saying that i’ve seen a lot of demographic change where i grew up and i’ve seen ppl lose their shirt inheriting an investment. sorry not sorry!!

we did all this in the homeowner vs rent thread last week iirc

and more importantly in cities and established suburbs - valuable plots of land

like beautiful downtown detroit, home of america’s bustling auto industry!

so the parallel is between unrefrigerated raw meat (which spoils everywhere) and a cliffside dwelling that fell into the ocean during an earthquake and was both uninsured and underwater?

xp yeah, Baltimore has something like 16,000 abandoned empty houses, not sure how those are an asset to anyone

nah it’s not a parallel … it’s a … nvm

If you inherit a house worth $500k and it has a $1mn mortgage attached then no, that is not capital. This is, of course, a routine problem.

(also... downtown Detroit is a land of $500k+ condos?)

I would simply not take possession of the piece of land that's $500k underwater but that's just me.

i’m talking abt landslides caused by wildfire erosion though, for the record

state farm and allstate no longer sell new policies coveting that in california, because of wildfires. i believe farmers is set to follow

yeah i know, you’re not getting it

maybe other ppl with better bona fides can explain

i mean explain to me what i have wrong, i’m not getting where you’re taking what i’m saying

I seem to have missed the California housing crash.

u missed the detroit one too?

well it does happen. It happened during the 2008 recession.

yeah it’s a cycle, ppl make money going up other ppl lose money coming down and the opposite can happen too. fine if you can ride it out, not all ppl can, and that doesn’t make them good or bad or lucky and unlucky or anything else in and of itself

jesus christ are we done here

as long as you understand that anyone who has ever owned anything is in the 1%

Well, this conversation got weird fast. A few thoughts:

Difference between wealth and money.

Chris Rock had a thing about this: "Shaq is rich. The white man who signs his check is wealthy."

Personally I own a house that is almost worthless (small, cramped, crumbling, 80+ years old) but it sits on an absurdly valuable rectangle of dirt. At present there is no way out of this situation.

Where I'm taking "land isn't capital unless you're doing something with it" is that it's just dead wrong. Rare cases of real estate declining in value don't change that - and I mean, you bring up climate change and California but houses are still selling there! There's a mild penalty for the most at-risk properties, but they still have a massive amount of value. The example of old people letting their homes go to seed that you pointed to and agreed with is also nothing like that - those homes just need fixing up, like every aging man-made structure.

If meemaw and pop-pop can sell their house for $400k (but if it would have been $550k if they'd kept up with maintenance), it's still $400k more of an asset than that held by the old couple relying on Social Security and Section 8 vouchers.

Rare cases of real estate declining in value

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa

everywhere around me I see jealousy and mayhem

We definitely went over this in the buying a house c/d thread

we're flipping it

Yeah turns out owning land sucks for the land owners

landpwners

Don’t worry though, I am willing to carry my burden so the rest of you don’t have to own my land. No need to thank me. Will accept cards and home made treats in recompense though

I should really be thanking the bank who actually own my land at the moment. Always sticking up for the little guy

its strange to me how it turns from homeowner to landowner depending on the level of sarcasm required in the sentence

Tbf my home is one of those mama and pop pop about to fall over next weekend types so I use land owner unironically. Bank values my place as like 20% house 80% land

The example of old people letting their homes go to seed that you pointed to and agreed with is also nothing like that - those homes just need fixing up, like every aging man-made structure

i … never said this? did i say this?

sorry i have this bad pathological need to be clear, seems like posting less might help ... but if you mean my friends whose mom is sick it has to do with refinancing, taxation, not planning for a sick mom, etc. it’s complicated but not structural problems. in the case of the tear-downs on the block, i was also pointing to mortgage and finance stuff others already mentioned

if you don’t believe me that it happened, fine. i concede the entire argument on all points, except the specifics about this one town and whether or not i lack empathy and imagination

Nothing personal against you mate, obviously there are specific situations where your points stand, it’s just they do not constitute the general rule of land ownership which is that it will “GENERALLY SPEAKING” make you wealthier in the long term.

Sympathise with your need to be clear, best wishes to your friend.

i agree. my only point … ever … was that it is not the same as peerage, or old time caste systems

i … never said this? did i say this?

‘I agree with akm’ when that was his last post seemed like an agreement re: the point about valuable homes not being kept up?

or if we want to shift it to something we can all agree is abhorrent (other than this thread) the same guarantee as apartheid

I am confused what the argument is?

Same

In any case land is absolutely capital and some people having to concern themselves with the performance of (in investment terms) or how to maintain a valuable property kind of feels like one of those class divide issues that started all this.

If you think of it in terms of it being able to be used as collateral for actual money … like you can’t buy groceries with a fractional share of land, same with many other necessities that require payments in cash or cash equivalents. Granted if you have no cash AND no land, then you are really fucked.

xp oh ok i was talking about finance stuff, mortgages etc not structural issues. maybe the steak needing a fridge confused it. at least we can agree that land is like other assets (they all help you become wealthier and require some maintenance) even if we can’t agree on whether its more akin to owning a business or owning a car (which in the case of a taco truck could be a business) or owning a principality

I mean you’re still putting up the fundamental difference that has been pushed back at you: cars go down in value, as do steaks, land (GENERALLY) does not. It’s neither steak nor car nor business for an owner occupier, it’s an asset. No need for confusing analogies which just get further away from the truth

Sarahell writes:

you can’t buy groceries with a fractional share of land

Um, yes you kinda can? Maybe you shouldn't but you totally can.

A landowner or homeowner can call or visit a bank and say "I would like a $50,000 line of credit based on the $500,000 of equity I have in my home and/or property. Oh, also, while you're at it, give me an extra $5,000 in cash."

Then you go buy groceries with that. It's surprisingly easy.

(It may not be a great idea, long term, but it is possible.)

xp i disagree that you are stating an ironclad truth, what else should i do?

lmaooooo try googling IS A CAR AN ASSET

i can’t anymore, i’m going to put on this dunce cap and watch glengarry glenross until i figure it out

I mean you could be generous with your interpretation of what I said and add in the appreciating/depreciating sub-clause that was obviously intended by the context, but yeah fair enough a car is an asset

seems like posting less might help