It's like denying that Reagan had genuine political gifts -- the guy won in two electoral landslides, he must have done a lot to woo Dems.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 22:46 (eight months ago) link
The thing is Trumps political instincts are terrible. He got jack shit done in office and permanently alienated a bunch of the base. He keeps backing the biggest freaks possible many of whom go on to lose races that shouldn’t have even been close. He was literally attacking the country’s World Cup team just a few days ago. What he’s good at is television. He knows how to chuck red meat and how to get himself on the news. He knows that being the GOP nominee means you can say and do whatever the fuck you want and no one will hold you accountable. He won the nom in 2016 because he was the most shameless and nakedly racist. That seems a lot different to me than what Reagan had, even as shameless and racist as that guy was
― frogbs, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 22:52 (eight months ago) link
Btw I know you’re not comparing the two Alf just remarking it’s a very different thing, Reagan definitely did know how to court moderates and centrist Dems, I can’t imagine Trump winning over a single 2020 Biden voter in 2024, he just has no clue how to do anything but pull ratings
― frogbs, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 22:57 (eight months ago) link
Keep 'em coming:
Fulton County DA Fani Willis, who has been investigating Donald Trump and his allies' efforts to overturn the Georgia 2020 election results, is likely to go before the grand jury next week to present her case, sources tell ABC News. https://t.co/TpLKqedGhe— Olivia Rubin (@OliviaRubinABC) August 8, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 22:58 (eight months ago) link
Reagan was a middling actor who made his political bones by betraying his friends. That pretty much set the tone for the rest of his life.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:00 (eight months ago) link
― frogbs,
No, I know you don't think so! I'm saying that acknowledging the enemy's gifts isn't endorsement.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:04 (eight months ago) link
and like you I've spent hundreds of hours at this point reminding my Dem base in South Florida that it's been downhill for Trump since 2016.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:05 (eight months ago) link
xp There was actually a thing called a 'Reagan democrat' and they numbered in the tens of thousands... I'm sure Trump converted a handful in 2016 but none in 2020
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:06 (eight months ago) link
It didn't help that the Dems in 84 ran . . . Walter Mondale.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:07 (eight months ago) link
There was actually a thing called a 'Reagan democrat' and they numbered in the tens of thousands..
More than that if you count both presidential elections and what went on for the next 20 years
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:10 (eight months ago) link
There's an old Mondale event poster in a liquor store on San Pablo Ave on the Oakland/Emeryville border... 'Featuring Gov. Jerry Brown"
I have no idea why they haven't taken it down
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:14 (eight months ago) link
The thing is Trumps political instincts are terrible.
This is true but it also supposes that he cares about politics as we think of them. If you view this all as the grandest prima donna act in a life full of them — a relentless need and urge to be bigger and bigger and bigger — rather than as some kind of political enterprise, I think he makes more sense. Of course people around him are using him for political ends, and he's happy for them to do it as long as they put him in front of adoring crowds, but also he's constantly getting in the way of their political ends because most of them he doesn't really care about. (Except, like, the racist and sexist ones, he's fully on board with those.)
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:47 (eight months ago) link
Which is to say, Trump and Reagan wanted different things from politics and the presidency. Reagan cared about both in ways Trump never will.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:48 (eight months ago) link
xps my dad (who is horrible but that's not relevant to this example) literally voted Republican/Reagan for the first time in his life b/c he hated Mondale so much
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 23:49 (eight months ago) link
I'm saying that acknowledging the enemy's gifts isn't endorsement.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)
see the thing is framing it as a "gift" I think implies a level of skill that may not be there. its true that being an abrasive asshole loudmouth who speaks off the cuff and doesn't learn shit got him really far in life, but it's also true that this is a country where those born rich can do no wrong, with a legal system where you can stymie pretty much any lawsuit by just bleeding the plantiff dry and a tax system where rich property owners can effectively pay nothing. and of course a political & media system that really loves controversy. I mean this is a country that briefly made Charlie Sheen its biggest celebrity when he was going through a mental breakdown and allowed the "cash me outside" girl to bank millions of dollars for no reason at all. We made the Jersey Shore cast household names and the Kardashians billionaires. By the way I'm not saying anything bad about those folks, I have nothing against any of them, just saying Trump strikes me as a uniquely American thing. Fascists and racists and authoratarians can and do win elections all over the globe but Trump feels like a guy who could only win in America. You think his approval rating was low here? Every poll ran outside of America revealed that 85% of the planet thought Trump was a tremendous dipshit.
so like, if he was actually 'gifted', or was indeed some kind of "master wizard" as the Dilbert guy liked to say, surely he could leverage that shit a bit better? he was reduced to a babbling maniac on the debate stage by...Joe Biden. he floated tremendously dumb ideas constantly and immediately had to either walk them back or spend weeks insisting people heard him wrong. literally every single person who's ever worked for him says he's a moron who's trivially easy to manipulate. he was played like a fiddle by Steve Bannon, the guy commiting fraud in broad daylight who is currently suggesting that a Trump/RFK ticket would unite the nation. so does he actually have gifts or do we live in one sick fuck of a nation?
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 00:19 (eight months ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3BuPzfXkAAadG9.jpg
Just want to interject that he looks like a Frank Miller drawing of himself at this point.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 00:27 (eight months ago) link
EMERGENCY EYEWASH STATION
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 00:31 (eight months ago) link
Obviously Trump has unusual political abilities. Tons of people with more political experience than him and much savvier political teams have tried to get elected president and failed. It's not an easy thing to do, especially running as he did the first time with no real infrastructure or even any real clue about how to go about it. It's not giving him credit to say he has actual political talents, it's just acknowledging the obvious. That doesn't make him "smart," obviously, but ask Liz Warren how far smart gets you.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 00:52 (eight months ago) link
If we accept that the man is trivially easy to manipulate then it becomes much harder to explain why he always ends up doing exactly as he pleases in spite of dozens of his closest political advisors, defense lawyers, members of Congress and sitting judges trying to persuade him to do otherwise, including Steve Bannon, who was tossed aside and verbally abused just like every other person who enters his inner circle. The manipulators seem to have a very poor track record imo.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 00:56 (eight months ago) link
xxxpost Donald Trump as Flattop in...Dick Tracy
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:13 (eight months ago) link
I think that’s more down to the fact that, as every book written about him claims, he only remembers what the last person he talked to said
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:14 (eight months ago) link
he got Covid because he held a huge event in celebration of the death of RBG, the exact sort of mass gathering that every doctor in the country was saying you shouldn't do.
lmao I forgot about this.
― treeship., Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:16 (eight months ago) link
― Prop Dramedy (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:24 (eight months ago) link
there is a method to how he conducts himself. he treats everyone and everything around him with contempt, as if life itself is a joke. this makes a certain % of people love him as they wish they too were liberated from moral constraints. and then for the people who try to stop him, they just end up embarrassing themselves. ever try to discipline an unruly kid and then have the kid laugh at you? that’s what it’s like to criticize him.
― treeship., Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:26 (eight months ago) link
he was reduced to a babbling maniac on the debate stage by...Joe Biden.
― toenail fungus (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:44 (eight months ago) link
By the way I'm not saying anything bad about those folks, I have nothing against any of them
Oh, I do. This country worships absolute morons. Maybe that’s true elsewhere, I dunno, but thanks for reminding me that a dumb, affected teenager could signed to a recording contract thanks to an appearance on Jerry Springer. (many do)
― Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:45 (eight months ago) link
That was supposed to say many xp, stupid phone.
― Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:48 (eight months ago) link
It's not an easy thing to do, especially running as he did the first time with no real infrastructure or even any real clue about how to go about it.
Who needs campaign infrastructure when you can just tweet out dumb shit 24/7 and have the media run your campaign for you?? If you can attack CNN nonstop and have them reward you by broadcasting footage of an empty podium you’re set to speak at while your opponent is giving policy speeches why do you need to know how to do anything at all?
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:54 (eight months ago) link
^^^
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 01:57 (eight months ago) link
i wish a hacker org could somehow mute all text and vid from trump it’d make it better and make him nuts.
― toenail fungus (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 02:03 (eight months ago) link
Trump is not uniquely gifted either, just gripped with enough survivor sense, carved out of three decades of getting away with shit, to delay prosecution, etc. And emough sense to realize the GOP base didn't give a shit about "policy" -- they wanted grievances.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 04:58 (eight months ago) link
WILL YOU SHUT UP MAN?
I still think this was the moment Biden won the election
― mh, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 14:39 (eight months ago) link
I doubt anyone had ever told Trump to shut up before.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 14:40 (eight months ago) link
both otm
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 14:56 (eight months ago) link
imagine if he'd said "up your nose with a rubber hose", he'd have the Horshack vote
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 15:03 (eight months ago) link
Would have to take it back from Romney:
In the current New Republic, the editors have this to say about Mitt Romney: "He's unbearably unctuous - the Arnold Horseshack of the race, furiously waving his hand to grab the teacher's attention."
― hardcore technician gimmicks are also another popular choice f (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 15:07 (eight months ago) link
trump is very funny when is not in power and very unfunny when he is in power
― c u (crüt), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 15:22 (eight months ago) link
^^^ this is otm, urgent & key
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:04 (eight months ago) link
Civilian Trump commenting on Kristen Stewart cheating--funny
President Trump complaining about Jimmy Kimmel jokes--not funny
― hardcore technician gimmicks are also another popular choice f (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:09 (eight months ago) link
I mean laugh-at funny, tbc.
― c u (crüt), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:26 (eight months ago) link
NEWS: Special counsel Jack Smith obtained a search warrant for Donald Trump's Twitter account in January.A delay in compliance by the company prompted a federal judge to hold Twitter in contempt and fine the company $350,000.Details TK— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 9, 2023
Good luck getting this info from Musk, but still.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:34 (eight months ago) link
Aw it was nice of Elongated to buy Twitter to help further try and (badly) protect his best bud.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:53 (eight months ago) link
Oh, wait, delay in compliance means they got what they wanted, right? Apparently the delay was because Twitter was prohibited from telling Trump they even got the warrant.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:53 (eight months ago) link
I hold Twitter in contempt myself.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:58 (eight months ago) link
Yeah they have what they wanted. So Smith has Trump's DMs, which are likely very moist.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 17:09 (eight months ago) link
Do you think Trump was much of a DM guy? I don't; he famously dictated his tweets to an underling. (His Truth Social posts might actually come from his own fat fingers, because they're demonstrably more insane/aggrieved.) He was always a guy who called people, and took calls from basically anyone who had his number.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 17:18 (eight months ago) link
he's a BM guy
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 17:22 (eight months ago) link
Back in 2005 a pal who at the time covered government for the Palm Beach Post was reporting on how neighbors near the airport were irritated by increasing air traffic. His editor asked him to call Trump at Mar-a-Lago. To my friend's amazement, Trump's secretary or whatever said, "He'll call you right back. Is this the number he can reach you?" And voila Trump himself called two minutes later, talked his ear off for 15-20 minutes. Then Trump called him back two days later to compliment him on the story ("You need anything? Let me know").
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 17:23 (eight months ago) link
I don't; he famously dictated his tweets to an underlingNo, you could famously tell which were written by staffers and which were blasted out on the can by his own thumbs from the “sent from iphone” labels
― serving bundt (sic), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 18:11 (eight months ago) link
Trump is funny in the same way Vince McMahon is, except Vince has the self-awareness to *know* he's playing a heel, and that therefore the audience actually wants to see him get his ass kicked or leave in a huff after getting shown up, whereas Trump is famously prickly anytime he thinks something makes him "look bad".
also, as crut says, being a horrible asshole is only funny when they don't actually have any power. I think the dudes on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia are hilarious but I probably wouldn't want to know them in real life
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 18:23 (eight months ago) link