The Pogues: Classic or Dud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJx5GJFyy9Q

What a singer, what a songwriter, what a presence in the world. Even if he lived the cliche of the self-destructive artist, he never indulged in the pretensions it often encourages. His art was clear-eyed even when it was sentimental. R.I.P. to one of my all-time favorites.

fuck. RIP. loved his music so much

me fave:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNtQ5AnRlz8

thanks for the great songs Shane

Ouch but also yeah, kinda figured this was coming

He could been someone, and was.

I remember Jimmy Tarbuck lauding him as "a brilliant writer"

It's been coming for 25 years. :/

UMS - Haunted is one of my fave songs of all time. Made me so sad earlier when I realized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMoXL-Iq1U

It's been coming for 25 years. :/

According to James Fearnley's book, at least 35.

RIP. He's meant a lot to me over 35 years, partly diaspora/background reasons but really a songwriter like no other, god those London songs alone - Transmetropolitan, Dark Streets of London, Old Main Drag, London Girl etc etc - damn.

Now get back out there and fuck them up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vXMRDs8i5g

like the case for a lot of acts, i first became aware of the pogues via an SNL appearance and i was blown away. shane was absolutely unintelligible but completely mesmerizing. so much genius work -- i actually think my favorite for quite awhile was The Snake, i played the hell out of that one.

it is genuinely sad to see him as a young man because he really just looks like a kid around the time the pogues started up, and to see him recently has been depressing. he looked like he was a couple decades older. he had a lot of love in his life, though. so many people stuck by him til the end.

the nipple erector/nips stuff isn't essential but they have some fun stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bDDAOJV1xU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpD4J7ShRDw

Is Elvis C's production of Rum... his best? I think so.

Rum... was the first album I heard, and I didn't love it; I thought the production was too bass-heavy (though I was listening to it on a cassette, in a Walkman) and there were too many slow songs. It wasn't until I tracked down a copy of Red Roses for Me that they really cracked open for me. Nowadays I love their first three albums and the Poguetry In Motion EP, but never heard anything after that. (And of course they were fine actors as well; anyone who hasn't seen Alex Cox's Straight to Hell should, at least once.)

Poguetry In Motion is my favorite, "A Rainy Night in Soho" in particular.

I thought the production was too bass-heavy

did you have some bass boost switch on like they used to have back then? Cuz it's just not overly bass heavy in terms of the mix on speakers or decent headphones

i mean it's got bass, sounds really full and good to me but not weirdly so

Navigator is a pretty good song

"Waxie's Dargle" is full-on mental.

My fave album of theirs for a long time was If I Should Fall From Grace With God and we used to blast it as we peeled out of the high school parking lot. I love the maudlin songs too just in a different way. When they were in party mode they were SO much fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsKa3vcF2Pg

I used to LOVE dancing to that song ^^ in my room and was always afraid my jumping would make the plaster fall into the room below me.

the devil's in the chair

xposts The best Elvis C. production is "Free Nelson Mandela."

One late teenage friendship involved yelling 'what'll you have/I'll have a pint/I'll have a pint with you sir' at each other a lot, often but not exclusively in pubs. My god we were annoying.

xps
idk the Special's 1st sounds as good (maybe not good-good, but right) if not better than RS&tL to me, but I like the sound he gets on both of them.

Agree Poguetry in Motion is peak. There have been annoying uses of Body of an American (yes you The Wire) but fuck that last verse is a beauty

like the case for a lot of acts, i first became aware of the pogues via an SNL appearance and i was blown away. shane was absolutely unintelligible but completely mesmerizing.

― omar little, Thursday, 30 November 2023 17:29 (two hours ago) link

I remember watching this when it was live and my mother, who often had trouble sleeping, would sometimes come downstairs & watch tv with me, was proper horrified by Shane's teeth "my god his teeth!"

UMS & I saw him with the Popes in the late 90s and it was hugely chaotic, drunken affair, I think they had played Chicago the night before and rumor was Shane was still in the greater Cook County area at showtime, he did eventually appear one or two songs into the show but he even though he was upright and singing he was clearly not exactly...er awake. Then about halfway through the song he eyes suddenly opened, he came awake in the middle of singing and the whole crowd roared and his face, he looked like he was amazed to be alive, there was so much joy in his eyes at that moment. RIP

from what it sounds to me Elvis did what you should do with a great live band, mostly get out of the way

yep -- most producers don't know this wisdom though!

from what it sounds to me Elvis did what you should do with a great live band, mostly get out of the way marry the bass player

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 30 November 2023 19:54 (two minutes ago) link

I'm sure Cait said in an interview they never actually married?

i didn’t really get into the Pogues until i was at Uni

the only song i really knew before i knew them was the covers like Dirty Old Town & Band Played Waltzing Matilda — mostly because my mum was super into Irish folk music & i occasionally went with her to some of the local regional celtic music festivals

but at Uni we had this bush dance night where they had a live band playing old australian folk songs & sorta square dance things - it was corny & fun & we all got rolling drunk. after the final dances & everyone was leaving but the band were still set up & playing, my friend who was a rabid pogues song asked the band if they knew any pogues songs, they were up for it i guess because they played for maybe 5 or 10 of us and ripped through a bunch of Pogues
we had so much fun & i fell in love w the songs immediately
my friend gave me a cassette copy of Rum Sodomy & The Lash the next day and it stayed in my car stereo for years afterwards, excellent for long boring drives back & forth between my home town & uni

truly some of the best soul-stirring music for me personally

mcgowans version of the band played waltzing matilda still makes me cry every goddamn time

"now come you gentleman soldier, won't you marry me??"

xp Passage from EC's autobiography:

Cait O'Riordan and I were not married in any church or by any legal authority, but our own were once sincere and certainly bound us to each other.

...

She played in The Pogues, led by a great songwriter who was utterly contemptuous of me, although I admired him nonetheless. I produced the only good and truthful-sounding record they ever made...

Should be "our vows" not "our own"

Red Roses sounds about as good tbh, like more fun, but fair play EC that Lillywhite sound on If I should fall… has its moments but gets in the way

i told my story re being behind shane at a mark stewart gig in the other thread re shane.

there is now photographic evidence ..

no idea if this will work.

https://scontent.fbrs4-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/405226775_10227254469802156_1410091209896366032_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=c42490&_nc_ohc=YREGHa5irpQAX8qtn6W&_nc_ht=scontent.fbrs4-2.fna&oh=00_AfB5oUyXjWhuX9OYUUTBfGmwG0q0zSHpYxekyHnH_4Cuag&oe=656D5617

mcgowans version of the band played waltzing matilda still makes me cry every goddamn time

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, November 30, 2023 8:17 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I read this post and thought 'yes, brilliant version that I appreciate but I am hard hearted now, no, no tears for me' but it just came on and ofc I'm broken.

I generally admire Mr Mac manus but it is a dick move to say that it was the ONLY worthwhile record the Pogues made.

It was a large band that made a lot of music under a lot of circumstances - live and in studios. I love that record but it wasn't the only good thing they did.

Yeah, EC was just taking the piss. I mean, I like all of their albums up through and including Peace and Love, and most of Hell's Ditch as well.

I saw the Pogues here, with Shane, back in maybe 2007? He and they were great.

I love all the albums through If I Should Fall From Grace With God, and there's a good handful of classics on the two other Shane/Pogues albums (not all of them by Shane -- hello "Lorelei"). Jem Finer wrote "Misty Morning Albert Bridge," but it's one of my favorite Shane vocals.

I saw them in Atlanta in 2009. They were . . . amazing. Shane was surprisingly coherent. He made it through "Bottle of Smoke" with nary a slip.

God damn it. This is going to hurt for a while.

area at showtime, he did eventually appear one or two songs into the show but he even though he was upright and singing he was clearly not exactly...er awake. Then about halfway through the song he eyes suddenly opened, he came awake in the middle of singing and the whole crowd roared and his face, he looked like he was amazed to be alive, there was so much joy in his eyes at that moment. RIP

This is extremely similar to what happened when I saw him at one of the Guinness Fleadhs around 1998.

Is Elvis C's production of Rum... his best? I think so.

Poguetry In Motion is my favorite, "A Rainy Night in Soho" in particular.

In a way that backs up Elvis's work as a producer, I always preferred the oboe overdub on "A Rainy Night in Soho" - Shane wanted the flugelhorn and the argument may have been the last straw that got them to look for another producer the next time around. (I like the idea of a flugelhorn, but on this record it sounded a little too obtrusive in the mix to me.)

Anyway, quite the gut punch this morning even if it was clear that Shane was in poor health. The opening track of Rum Sodomy & the Lash feels like a fitting epitaph to me, especially the final verse and chorus.

I think a 90 minute cassette of the best Pogues songs would be my favorite album of all time.

As a Pogues neophyte, are even their albums generally regarded as uneven?

nah. diverse, sure, eclectic. but not uneven.

I'm mostly familiar with Rum Sodomy & the Lash and If I Should Fall from Grace with God, and they're both great and both consistent, rock solid albums. They weave in covers and instrumental passages, which feel like the sort of thing some people may unfairly criticize (I see that reaction towards other albums that include those things) but I wouldn't - they're all wonderful.