The Pogues: Classic or Dud

i LOVE that Steve Earle song -- there is a similarity between him and Shane in my mind because both seemed like real honest to goodness romantics. Fuckups for sure, but hearts of gold. It's a characteristic I responded to a lot when I was younger and I could never really put my finger on it. It's definitely real though.

poll: who’s more authentic than shane macgowan?

just as an aside if anyone wants to make a difficult music quiz: link Sonic Youth & The Pogues

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Tetras

I’ve had Jamie Stewart sobbing “I never got my degree, chachi / I never played in The Pogues” in my head these past days :(

I used to see Shane way back when, particularly in a record shop in Hanway Street. (I only just 'discovered' he 'worked' there, the number of times he looked more like he was hanging out with mates..)

Anyway, he was a face on the scene pre-pogues, and he did various bands that had plenty of enthusiasm behind them and when Pogue Machine first started it did seem at first it was fuelled by "I can do that" more than actual insight. But no, something had clicked into place right then. Suddenly, all this genius was right there!

There have been plenty of songwriter/performers who's early stuff, while not terrible, were clearly not quite there but had some sort of germ of what came after. I can't think of any who blossomed in quite the way Shane did.

I doubt he'll have the big posthumous surge in respect that Amy Winehouse got, but at least he got it while he was alive.

Anyway, there you go.

Still stand by what I wrote in this thread, uhhh, TWENTY years ago. Only I don't believe it was hyperbolic enough.

Kind of shocked to discover there's no "collected lyrics" type book for Shane, aside from an out-of-print 1990 volume that goes for hundreds of dollars now. Maybe in the next couple years. I'm generally never interested in books like that but Shane is one of the few exceptions for me, one of the best to ever do it. Mark G otm, glad he got his flowers while he was here.

Also I’ve been glad to see so many people talk about him as a singer and interpreter in addition to his songwriting. He was a GREAT singer, at least when he wasn’t too slurry to get through. And even sometimes then. His phrasing, sure, the gravelly gravity of his voice, but the key is something more like heart, feeling, emotional resonance. He can hit the full range within one verse of a song, from love to grief to regret to knowing humor. There was nothing artless about it, he knew what notes he was aiming for musically and emotionally, and he could be as brash or subtle as the moment needed.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, December 1, 2023 9:12 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Something that has struck me, esp listening to RS&L is just how much care and inflection he puts on certain words and syllables to convey whatever it is he is trying put across.

For some reason the way his voice retreats into something closer to his speaking tone and then cuts off at the end of "Old Main Drag" just kills me every time.

Yeah, he was definitely one of the best bad singers. Like, even when he wasn't singing well, he brought something essential.

I wish I knew how to do that - be simultaneously bad and good at something.

Still stand by what I wrote in this thread, uhhh, TWENTY years ago.

listening to podcasts that included a lot of strummer commentary, i had just sorta forgot the long duration of his role with em, before macgowan left. that sounds like a fucking night

Strummer was a completely different kind of person and musician. I have never understood that shift, given that people like Luka Bloom were available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi2JEdKwzAI

fortune prevailing!
across the western ocean
their bellies full
their spirits free
they'll break the chains of poverty
and they'll dance!

#ShaneMacGowan #Dublin
Rest in peace Shane. Thank you for the music, the punk and poetry. pic.twitter.com/kgyWfhvmT8

— Son of Mick (@PH5271) December 8, 2023

Heard some BBC coverage of people gathering for the funeral, sounds like quite a send-off.

This is the real Dublin ❤️‍🔥

So long Shane 🙏#ShaneMacGowan pic.twitter.com/YxZtmXxxI2

— Fergal Burke (@fergaljburke) December 8, 2023

it seems quite mad that his funeral is being shown live on bbc, especially with his wife talking about how he took 100 acid tabs a day!

most bonkers funeral ever. fantastic.

The immanent psychiatrist, Irvin Yalom, said, “each of us creates-—often without our conscious intent or knowledge—concentric circles of influence that may affect others for years, even generations. That is, the effect we have on other people is in turn passed on to others, much as the ripples in a pond go on and on until they’re no longer visible but continuing at a nano level.” Dr. Yalom calls this idea that our own influence can ripple out to others rippling. Yalom says rippling is “leaving behind something from your life experience; some trait; some piece of wisdom, guidance, virtue, comfort, that passes onto others, known or unknown.” Rippling is the idea that that people continue to exist through the impact they have had on others. Yalom suggests everyone has the potential to affect others for years, decades and even centuries after departing this earth.

Glen Hansard and Lisa O'Neill performed "Fairytale of New York" to close Shane MacGowan's funeral today.pic.twitter.com/bG7mCSusmC

— CONSEQUENCE (@consequence) December 8, 2023

R.I.P. Shane MacGowan
Here is Nick Cave performing 'A Rainy Night in Soho' at Shane's funeral in Nenagh, Co Tipperary, on Friday afternoon #ShaneMacGowan 💙pic.twitter.com/7BXaAp1CyP

— 🎶Paul Lewis - Wycombe Gigs (@wycombegigs) December 8, 2023

^Irvin Yalom OTM.
Speaking of Pogues x Steve Earle, I hear related appeal in the (candidly precarious, vibrantly focused) peak albums of Justin Townes Earle (a better singer than Steve): Midnight at the Movies was my gateway, and there were several more before he started seeming so fragile that I backed off---I didn't know him, so that was okay, I thought--then he rallied for The Saint of Lost Causes, one of his best ever, then he was gone.

those performances are so good, esp enjoyed hansard

really feeling this one today
just tearfully waltzed meself around the kitchen <3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66quTi26YLY

I love “Rainy Night in Soho,” but I didn’t realize its cultural impact, that it’s kind of the go-to Shane song other than “Fairytale of NY.”

podcast wise, “Misadventures in Music” with Ian Prowse and Mick Ord did a great ep about McGowan a couple of years ago in 2021 - very passionate & deep discussion, highly recommend

also includes a good interview at the end w the Crock of Gold producer

really feeling this one today
just tearfully waltzed meself around the kitchen <3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66quTi26YLY

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, December 8, 2023 9:36 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this and Five Green Queens are the songs I really really love from Hell's Ditch. Almost just wisps, but absurdly lovely, a kind of brilliance that's miles away from his ferocious piles of words.

yeah the simplicity really bowls me over, just as much as his epics do

I love “Rainy Night in Soho,” but I didn’t realize its cultural impact, that it’s kind of the go-to Shane song other than “Fairytale of NY.”

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, December 8, 2023 10:15 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

yup and I can never puzzle out whether its careful ambiguity is part of the deal or sort of off to one side of a gorgeous romantic-sounding record. Cool either way, songs have their own lives.

We have sin gas
And con leche

re Soho: macgowan is one of the rare few songwriters I’m not mad at rhyming arms with charms

macgowan said years ago that he didnt know what it was about even while he was writing until almost the end, which is something i love
theres an ease to the flow of the lyrics that makes it very believable that it just showed up fully formed
he was communing with a good & kind muse that day imo

You’re the measure of my dreams

That one is breaking me right now

fully sobbed over that line again today

Some people they are scared to croak
But Jimmy drank until he choked

WE WALKED HIM TO THE STATION IN THE RAINNNN

WE KISSED HIM AS WE PUT HIM ON THE TRAIN

That was my first response when heard about his death, just posted the chorus to Sally MacLennane. We sang him a song of times long gone, though we knew that we'd be seeing him again.

FARRR AWAAAY!!

heard them say that Jimmy's making money far away
And some people left for heaven without warning

me fave:

Now Jimmy didn't like his place in this world of ours
Where the elephant man broke strong men's necks
When he'd had too many Powers

Strangely, the lines that tend to get to me are

For to shift a few tons of this earthly delight

Yes to shift a few tons of this earthly delight

I know Shane didn't write that song but the way he delivers it just kinda works for me

His delivery is at least as much a part of his appeal as his writing.

And yet he was one of the rare songwriters whose lyrics are good on the page as well

Stumbled on this after watching an RTE Late Late Show tribute to McGowan from yesterday...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otVTYS1fR6c

(bah, can't embed, but it's Shane and many of the same people from the tribute from the other night, from 2019. Shane in not great shape but sings a bit alongside a large band including Terry Woods)

I don’t know enough about Puddles the clown to have an opinion of him, but this is a pretty delightful performance of “A Man You Don’t Meet Every Day” with THE actual Cait O’Riordan.

https://fb.watch/oQBALSjS81/?mibextid=cr9u03

every time I see a Puddles video I'm kind of blown away, that guy has a great voice and good schtick

(xxpost) if you ever wanted to see Martin O'Malley (yes that one) sing a Pogues song you can see it here

RS Album Guide

https://i.imgur.com/gd095xW.png