Todd Haynes

It's double underlining that the actress (who is as fragile and susceptible to Elizabeth's influence as Joe was) is no closer to understanding Elizabeth than she was at the beginning ... less close, even. She nailed the take when she thought she had a handle on her background, but Elizabeth cut her off at the knees in the second to last scene.

otm

yeah. to me it almost feels like a final caution to the viewer: if you thought of her as your audience surrogate, a gumshoe peeling back all the layers for you, you look as dumb as she does right now. after that last scene btwn her and moore its basically unnecessary, putting a hat on a hat, but i still liked it.

I thought about that too and, ultimately, I disagree. We do need to see her flail on camera after that moment.

Idk guys. I hoped for better.

and it was!

It reminded me of like the accident or reflections in a golden eye (campy, ponderous, blurry) or something like foxes (that 70s shampoo ad look) also why was it set in 2015? It wasn't an excuse to get people to dress like it was 2015. I'm curious to see what people sincerely trying to do the 2010s in costume will look like because I want to know what type 'office girl in wide legged trousers' will signify

I suppose to get the math about their age gap accurate-- based on the original true life incident

That's what I figured, too, although since it was a fictionalized version, why did it need to have happened at the exact same time the Mary Kay LeTourneau scandal did?

oh i didn't realise it was based on a true life story. I would have fired the costume designer though. some of it was funny in a valley of the dolls way. I didn't find the final conversation between the two leads that devastating.

I mentioned this movie to my wife as one to watch, and she surprised me by saying she actually watched half of it and *hated* it. She said it was like watching a cheesy from-the-headlines Lifetime movie and didn't get the point. She did say that if I watched the first half and saw something it it that she didn't she would consider watching the rest.

I watched most of it again last night and had an even better time. Portman's earnestness (which we learn is inseparable from her guile) is hilarious.

I noted this second time Cory Michael Smith's performance as Georgie, damaged beyond reckoning and barely insouciant about it. I wrote down this bit after Elizabeth asks him about how Joe told him about what was happening b/w him and his mom:

"It was right before my birthday so we forgot to cancel the party but only one guy came anyway and we just hung out in my room and ate so many warheads that I threw up, and we watched TV until the sun was almost up and I gave him a hand-job and then he never spoke to me again."

georgie steals the very few scenes he's in. amazing performance

i really liked the way the lawyer talked to & about georgie in the scene with his bar band, a great little bittersweet comic performance by that guy

re:2015 I read an interview w/Haynes where he said he didnt want to risk audiences bringing any Trump-era baggage to the story, especially given the southern setting. I'm not sure that would have occurred to me as a viewer, but that was his reasoning anyway.

Josh, your wife is wrong.

I believe it! I was just struck by the strength of her reaction.

I didn't find the final conversation between the two leads that devastating.

In a way, it shouldn't have been. That it sent Portman's character reeling is part of what's so damning

I primarily read that conversation as Gracie's assertion of control over her own story. That no matter what Elizabeth did she'd never really know her. What she thought was her Rosebud moment maybe actually wasn't — and, pace the original Rosebud, wouldn't have really explained the truth of Gracie even if it was true.

The movie felt like it had a very glossy surface for most of the time I was watching it, but it has really been something to ruminate on. I just loved the melodramatic piano score, it added a lot of both pathos and humor

The score is the score from the Go-Between

Its a wonderful score but for me a major contributor to the self conscious late 60s Losey pastiche which i found tiresome, not least because every Losey film I've seen since the Servant has been a major disappointment. In that way I guess he's similar to Haynes for me, I feel like they both lucked into one great film where everything clicks and its a miracle but everything else theyve done is laboured and smug. I haven't seen every Losey film though and Haynes hasn't done anything as bad as Eva.

I thought Portman was way too much, the gags felt overdone. The screen is a mirror. I'm not really sure what I was supposed to be confronted by. Maybe it needed another hour or so of portman wandering around in a sunhat. The Chabrol comparison feels way too kind, at least there would be a dead body or a painting or a suitcase of cash it was Chabrol. I was going to say maybe Haynes should adapt a Highsmith novel but then I remembered he already has. I wonder what Laura Mulvey would say about it.

I was disappointed by this too, weird kind of mix of trashy and prestige but not really nailing either

My Letterboxd this weekend was a feast of May December backlash

I thought Portman was way too much, the gags felt overdone.

Interesting. To my mind she's an inadequate actress, but she and Haynes exploited her weaknesses well. I was more conscious this second viewing of how nicely she spaced out her delivery, how she managed a second-tier actress' trick of I Am Listening Now when another person spoke to her.

I liked it, but for a film about forbidden love, there was very little I found uncomfortable. the moral POV seemed pretty well prescribed

The most uncomfortable moment to me was was Portman telling her casting people that the 13-year-olds they were sending her weren't sexy enough. But it was also funny.

Yeah, was also uncomfortable with the variation on that theme, very willingly answering the drama class clown's question on how to film sex scenes

Take this with a grain of salt, but this film has grown in my estimation the further I've gotten from it. I found it uncomfortable and just generally not enjoyable as I watched it, but I admit I do keep thinking about parts of it (especially the final scene).

I didn't read a lot of previews or have big expectations going in, beyond knowing the basic premise. I was shocked after I watched it to find people saying how funny it was - I truly did not laugh once, and did not ever get the sense it was going for comedic beats.

I agree, and I believe Haynes when he’s said as much in interviews. (Although he obviously miscalculated with the “hot dogs” music sting, only an alien would think that wasn't intended as a camp laff.)

I find myself having that experience more & more over the last 5 or so years, seeing some really severe drama or horror movie overpraised online as a hilarious dark comedy. I think about it a lot tbh and cant really figure out exactly what I think about it. I know part of it is obviously just an effect of Me Getting Old, but I think theres definitely some things going on in current film culture that are resulting in audiences bringing a lot more irony to the table than in times past, at least w/certain kinds of films.

Kids these days reserve their solemnity for Tiktok reels

I mean, I just heard Portman and Moore going for beats in their line deliveries that amused me. idk if I brought anything.

The problem with comedy and finding things unfunny is that no one wants to feel left out of the joke.

I will never use the phrase "hilarious dark comedy" and will give serious side eye to anyone who does.

I do

congrats on finally tying the knot!

I get my boxing terms mixed. xpost

Throw those dreary vows away, they bore me!

I like the idea that Haynes is focusing on us (the audience) as avid consumers of lurid tabloid stories, and turning the narrative and whatever truth there might be about it back on us, to what our reactions to this movie might reflect about us

Throw those dreary vows away, they bore me!

― stephen miller is not your friend (Eric H.), Monday, December 18, 2023 8:49 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

lol

The general atmosphere here is very Macbeth-ish.

We've seen you like this before. Is it over or is it just beginning?

thought joe actor/character was really good. the put down of 'this is what grown ups do' was one of the most off handedly condescendingly mean thing I've seen in a movie in a while. the graduation dress shopping scene with the daughter's reaction to the 'your brave to wear that dress and show off your upper arms' volley from the mum was great/chilling. never got a handle on who gracie was throughout the whole thing. hopefully that was the point.

the music cues kept making me think of 'invitation to love'

the put down of 'this is what grown ups do' was one of the most off handedly condescendingly mean thing I've seen in a movie in a while

Yeah, this one got a gasp from me

Portman nailed the delivery.

This latest “controversy” is really killing any remaining goodwill I have toward … well discourse in general tbh

this. a24 not contacting the last remaining brother of the von erichs until after the iron claw was made…the aaliyah story a younger zendaya turned down…it should be an ethical requirement to request an individual’s permission for a biopic or “inspired story,” based on THEM. https://t.co/56QqnSQ7kI

— kristen (not crystal) yellowjackets shish-kabob 🍡 (@lordesbbqribs) January 4, 2024

give me a fucking break here lol pic.twitter.com/rhW0HmvyQk

— alice (@modlssss) January 4, 2024

I think artists should be able to write about whomever they want…but I also think if they’re based on a real person, there should be a sincere effort to understand that person and give them a fair shake…kind of a theme of this movie iirc

joe was clearly the character the story was most sympathetic to imo, fwiw

Right. I'm not myself feeling sympathetic.

He may be the inspiration but it's not a biography. It would be extremely misguided to even mistake it as one, just as it would be to think Charles Foster Kane is supposed to be a biographical depiction of William Randolph Hearst. Public figures inspire countless fictional characters. The plot may involve adapting a controversial event into a TV show, but it's still doing so within the realm of fiction.