Donald Trump: Classic or Dud?

I do think you’re wrong but we’ll see. I think that for better or worse the justices are lifetime appointees and realize that Trump will be dead soon and another nutiob republican will then seek power and the justices would rather align themselves with long-term movement than with the unseemly Trump. Alito and Thomas may not cooperate with this approach but I don’t think the others will further ruin their legacies on behalf of Trump. But we’ll see!

I think they will overturn the Colorado Supreme Court decision

and I don't think their legacies will be ruined because of it, they will just go on as before, and we will bow down to them when they die

I just don’t see how the SC could kick him off the ballot. He hasn’t been convicted of insurrection in the Senate or in a Court. I suppose they could make up a new power, but that would be pretty iffy.

https://i.imgur.com/CDToKFX.png

we are FUCKED if people don't know this

god fucking dammit, section 3 of that. just skip to that

FUCK

not to be sheeple, but sheeple, fuck, read the goddamn constitution so you can see them lie to you about it to your face

Eye of beholder basically

oof yeah, that's going to be a moment, when they argue their way out of section 3, but yes. honestly my view is hold on tight, holy shit

this whole case is basically a referendum on whether you believe in complete bullshit or not

Not sure what you mean tho. No one has convicted Trump of insurrection. The SC would have to decide he was guilty.

It seems like it says the remedy to the situation is for congress to remove by ⅔ vote, which they already had the opportunity to do.

The flip of that, I wonder, is that these pending trials accusing him of insurrection, if the supreme court says he is not an insurrectionist, does that invalidate all these January 6 cases?

Anyway, they should definitely impeach Trump.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/colorado-supreme-court-disqualifies-trump-from-gop-ballot

So far, other courts to have addressed the question of Trump’s eligibility in light of the Disqualification Clause’s ban on former officials who engaged in insurrection have rejected efforts to bar him from seeking office on grounds of jurisdiction. The Colorado Supreme Court, in a case brought by good government nonprofit CREW, has now made a landmark, first-ever ruling in the country’s history: disqualifying a candidate from the presidency for having violated the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.

The ruling ratifies the lower court finding that Trump engaged in insurrection on Jan. 6, under a measure used to keep Confederate officials away from power.

Yeah the fact that he hasn’t been convicted seems like it’ll be a sticking point

it doesn't say he has to have been convicted of it, simply that he took part in it. that seems incontrovertibly true to me but then I am not a brain damaged SC justice

if the supreme court says he is not an insurrectionist, does that invalidate all these January 6 cases?

i think there's a judicial process answer to this question, which many are likely to defend all the way up until it happens, and then there's the practical answer, which will likely be violent

i am actually still in a good mood so i'm going to stop dwelling on this for now, sorry! but i will suggest the possibility of pretending like we just heard that our favorite guy joe biden is off the ballot in colorado, and it's because of some republican judge bullshit. biden is off the ballot and now republicans win colorado. that's why it would or will get violent.

in that situation we would think it was absurd that biden get kicked off a ballot while trump, demonstrably corrupt to the bone and a will to fascism, gets to run free. that's how conservative people, the kind that actually vote for them, think. the sliver of 'reasonable' conservatives is gone now. those that figured it out post 2016 and especially 2017 and especially any year after that can fuck off for the rest of their lives. so instead all that's left of conservatism is the dogmatic kind. all they see is trump is off the ballot in colorado, and it's because of some democratic judge bullshit. trump is off the ballot and now democrats win colorado. that's why it would or will get violent. what actually happened is becoming something like a curiosity

things are escalating and people are listening to other people who suggest that there

...be hugs

ok be well but in general i think it's going to be a time of reckoning with real fascism, incoming, soon. i realize that's on the more negative side of thoughts about the future but it seems real to me, and (sorry, i know, i know) growing up in a pentecostal church, i have seen these fuckers and what they want, it's not good

I think disqualifying one of the major candidates by decision of politically appointed judges is a great way to bring about that reckoning real fast. No matter how much it feels right, it is going to feel like cheating to many millions of people who staged a violent insurrection under far more clear cut circumstances.

But what if the disqualified candidate is a real asshole?

right as much as he deserves to be booted off the ballot whatever happens next is not gonna be good for the country. personally I feel like "Trump should be disqualified as per the Constitution but he wasn't because he got to appoint 3 Supreme Cort judges so yes fascism is coming you idiots" might be something the Dems could run on

No, it’s gonna be fine, Trump is a moderate, I am assured.

I think SCOTUS is not going to want to rock the boat too hard. They'll do the minimum necessary to let the status quo prevail, which is to just keep Trump on the ballot. (I don't know what that legal contortion will look like, but they'll figure it out.)

NB: Maybe 5 of them will actually want him gone, that is an outside possibility.

I think they'll say you can't remove him for insurrection when he hasn't been convicted by congress or in court.

No one has convicted Trump of insurrection. The SC would have to decide he was guilty.

The text doesn't say "shall be found to have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the state," it says "shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the state." And, you know, there's video. Call C-SPAN, they could burn you a copy, I bet.

You realize this isn't self-evident to a massive portion of the country, right?

all they see is trump is off the ballot in colorado, and it's because of some democratic judge bullshit.

atm the SCOTUS has 6 justices appointed by republicans and 3 by democrats. this includes 3 justices appointed by Trump himself. so even a 5-4 split would necessarily include at least 2 republican nominees.

however, if there were a decision upholding the ballot invalidation in Colorado, one would hope for a 6-3 or 7-2 court in order to partially neutralize the backlash from Trump's cult.

its too bad this won't happen in time for primaries because something like this might actually put the nomination in doubt if cards fall the right way and the RNC actually thinks this would severely damage his chances of winning. I know there are a lot of crazies in this country but I think the majority of Republican voters are not Jan 6ers but rather people scared of change who wish we could go back to the 1950s. once Trump is off TV for a few weeks they'll forget about him.

You realize this isn't self-evident to a massive portion of the country, right?

Yes, I am aware that most people are fucking morons, thanks.

I think the safest thing (in a covering their own asses kind of way) the SC could do is refuse to take the case, allowing CO's ruling to stand but not necessarily establishing that other states have to follow. If they take it and affirm CO, it'll be Jan. 6 every day for millions of MAGAs even if the federal govt sort of limps along thereafter. If they overturn CO and force Trump onto the ballot, welp, there goes the country.

like even look at J6 itself there were like 10,000 people there despite Trump getting like 80 million votes. yea some real loonies but not enough that there's more than a handful of now-famous faces in the crowd. a bunch of them were like, real-estate agents. probably like a hundred podcast hosts. they're people who broke a pretty serious law not because they are Nazis but because they are stupid and only capable of hearing the things they want to hear.

Though I suppose if they refuse to take the case, they're affirming the CO ruling. xp

yeah it's like if it's taken, he stays on the ballot in CO pending decision.

so it doesn't sound like the "political question" dodge will work here well enough. i have to guess they'll do a "no conviction by court yet or by congress."

once Trump is off TV for a few weeks they'll forget about him.

ooooh my i want what you taking

keeping him off tv would be fucking awesome tho

If they take it and affirm CO, it'll be Jan. 6 every day for millions of MAGAs

see I'm not convinced of this. there are fascist rallies held fairly frequently in this country and nobody shows up but content creators and like 5 other people. sometimes there are more reporters than attendees. Trump himself spends his days calling into Z-rated podcasts and appearing on shows with names like Patriot Life Now! I mean there are 100% people willing to die for Trump but I feel like a significant portion of them are people who have already figured out a way to get on TV because every member of Trump Nation believes celebrity is the only thing that matters

I am aware that most people are fucking morons, thanks.

Most of us fit the profile. I recently read Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead, Olga Tokarczuk and one of the characters says (I'm paraphrasing), "Oh, you absolutely must tell people what they should think, otherwise someone else will." I agree.

People are very suggestible and when someone very confidently describes the 'right' way to look at something and no one immediately contradicts them, it's just easiest to adopt that viewpoint as correct and move on. Unless you have pre-existing countervailing thoughts.

The less you know about something, the easier it is to shape your views on it. It's also why news readers and talk show hosts strive to sound and act 'trustworthy' according to what their consultants say the correct signals are. This is an open secret that applies not just to FOX NEWS, but to all cable and broadcast news.

when it comes to this stuff I think a lot about that study which showed that people become measurably less extreme after just two weeks of not watching FOX News. I know things look bad right now but I don't really believe that Donald Trump pushed the electorate past the point of no return

You realize this isn't self-evident to a massive portion of the country, right?

― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Tuesday, December 19, 2023 11:01 PM bookmarkflaglink

are we just forever going to enslave ourselves to the will of ignorant, bloodthirsty authoritarian voters and the politicians they voted in? they're going to do terrible things if we sit and do nothing. they're going to do terrible things if provoked.

they're just going to do terrible things regardless but constantly framing things as "oh no we done poked the hornet's nest" just kinda lets them dictate the terms of how things go

also - notice how shook a lot of these insurrectionists got AFTER January 6th, when many of them faced severe charges? remember all the talk on Telegram/other right wing social media about how armed "patriots" were going to ensure Biden never got to take office, and then a whole bunch of nothing happened?

these people felt comfortable thumping their chests on January 6th because they THOUGHT they were invincible. Imagine a convoy of idiot drivers all tearing down a road at 150 miles per hour, doing Tokyo Drift stunts because someone told them their cars had force fields around them, and then the first few rows of the fleet crashed and died in a fiery ball. the people that didn't die suddenly are going to drive like Sunday School teachers for the rest of their lives.

that doesn't mean this shit isn't scary or that we aren't going to see acts of violence/extremism from these folks, but y'know I'm not going to live in fear of how every little thing will inspire them to rise up and turn this country into the Turner Diaries Live on Ice. that's just giving them power.

Why not let the actual criminal trial about this subject play out then?

conservative patriots are LARPers, the majority of whom like to act like badasses when there is no actual risk or repercussion, which is exactly why so many of these folk were little more than the drunk angry uncle who ranted on social media during the Obama administration

xpost the criminal trial that probably won't conclude prior to the election, so we can determine after he's possibly President again that he broke the law but oopsie we can't indict the President now so we will just have to say "lesson learned" for next time?

Then perhaps the focus should be on actually beating him in the election instead of giving up and hoping the Supreme Court will save us.

their entire strategy is astroturfing. they talk about it openly on Twitter. like look at all the companies who got bullied by right-wingers after selling T-shirts that said "Gay Christmas" or whatever to the point where it actually affected their stock price. once they gave in it's not like their stock price went up. one of the biggest right wing celebrities is a guy who took a video of himself shooting up a case of Bud Light and then was photographed a few months later drinking it. 95% of this shit is pretend.

our strategy can be more than one thing. and it isn't as if Joe Biden is sitting here and puppeteering everything from his White House seat. there are a bunch of disconnected things happening around the country because Trump is a criminal so of course he's facing several different court cases/etc

Then perhaps the focus should be on actually beating him in the election instead of giving up and hoping the Supreme Court will save us.

I was gonna waste my time taking this absurd argument apart, but Neanderthal already did.

I was listening to that Trump–Raffensperger call. It's outrageously bad. When he is slandering Ruby Freeman he offers social media posts as evidence of her election fraud complicity. And someone suggests perhaps social media posting isn't evidence. And then he replies to clarify, no this wasn't social media, social media is big-tech, big tech isn't on our side - this was Trump media!

Then perhaps the focus should be on actually beating him in the election instead of giving up and hoping the Supreme Court will save us.

― Muad'Doob (Moodles)

lol

Should Biden win in November 2024 an army of former Clarence Thomas clerks will find some legal mechanism to deny him victory. You really think 2024 will be a normal election anyway? Come the fuck on.