Donald Trump: Classic or Dud?

I watched a bit of her testimony with closed caption on and did not think she did herself any favors.

Arguing with the questioner is not a great approach for a witness.

Depends on the context and the witness.

I don't think it was great that the judge had to reprimand her a couple times, but the whole scene got pretty messy for a while, and you can't really blame her for being so angry about it all.

but you can blame her for acting angry about it. operating at a v high level in a courtroom environment is like, actually her job. if that what she thinks will be most effective wrt to both exculpating herself and also staying on the matter, that's her judgment, i should hope-- not mere reaction. i think that's poor judgment, but not as poor judgment as what got us to this.

I had two teeth pulled this Monday and was unable not to occasionally squirm and flinch in the dentist’s chair.

All things considered, Ms. Willis kept awfully cool and composed on the stand. She must have been seething inside.

Yeah but Hunt3r it’s one thing to channel emotion when you’re wearing the prosecutor hat and it’s someone else who is being prodded and judged; another entirely when you’re the one, all of a sudden. Especially if it falls into age-old American traditions of persecuting female sexuality as well as perverse fascination with black sexuality.

Because Brett Kavanaugh remained famously cool and collected at his hearing?

I'm not suggesting you support Kavanaugh in any way btw.

I'm suggesting there might be some bias in how men and women are perceived when they feel they are wrongfully accused and how constrained the tones we must use.

I think the ethics charges are bs. But there is this also this idea that prosecutors must be "purer than Caesar's wife" in avoiding even the appearance of impropriety.

There is an element of politics in it that it plays into cynical hands. I mean you don't want to encourage frivolous dq motions but yiu want public confidence in the process.

Xxxp

^this

I keep thinking about the Kavanaugh hearings during all this.

Yes you said what I mean but better

No! :-)

But Kavanaugh’s performance made him even less credible

It was pretty roundly mocked as well

And it made no difference

Kavanaugh's audience wasn't a solitary judge, but a Republican controlled Senate who for their political safety were going to vote for his confirmation even if he'd started jumping up and down on the table screaming profanities at his Democratic questioners.

They’re not entirely comparable , and yet my mind juxtaposes them as telling panels of the national collage.

xp i believe i understand everyone's points re ms willis, and thanks for the patient splains. i continue to root for her strongly. i'm not disappointed, not my job, i am just sorta surprised. no gifts to those bastards pls.

It really is such Karening and "hey look over there" bullshit and should not be a thing.

Trial level judges have seen a lot and will be more understanding. If the judge is good he should rule no disqualificatiom and just let them make their record for the appellate court to deal with.

One can both think she shouldn't be disqualified and she did herself no favors (with her decisions on and off the stand).

Having a "romantic relationship" (in the parlance of the questioning) with a coworker, especially one that might arguably be classified as a direct report, is incredibly dumb, regardless of the situation. It might not blow up on you, but it very easily can.

I felt bad for her having to discuss some of these matters on the stand.

Of course the entire thing is completely cynical - Trump is a cornered, desperate animal willing to thrash anyone to break free.

Having a "romantic relationship" (in the parlance of the questioning) with a coworker, especially one that might arguably be classified as a direct report, is incredibly dumb, regardless of the situation. It might not blow up on you, but it very easily can.

Yeah, I don't know what the HR department is like in the Fulton County court system, but at my job, we have to participate in a training every other year that drives this home.

I think this Judge (McAfee) has showed himself to be fair and averse to bullshit, so even if Willis was snippy, I think the Judge would probably give her the benefit of the doubt.

I agree the optics are not the best, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say lawyers should never date coworkers. There are specific ethics rules around it. The Obamas met at work. Many lawyers I know met their SO at work.

Then again I live in LA and it's more culturally relaxed than NYC (ime)

Oh, I know it goes on in the real world - all the time!. My wife works at a large firm and has partners who have married attorneys they met at work (who no longer work at the firm, thank god). It's just kind of a, to be crass, don't shit (fuck) where you eat situation, for me.

Obviously hope the judge does not disqualify her and she goes on to convict Trump for his obvious crimes.

Day 2 of this nonsense about kicking off now

That there is a Day 2 is ridiculous.

to be fair, the judge did say up front that he expected the hearing to take two days, but it's ridiculous it's happening at all

apologize in advance, this is mostly restatment of my prev, but my experience says that if you stay right with the judge, and you have not violated the law wrt conflicts, and she sounds clear from what i've read/heard, she should be fine. but stay right with the judge, no matter your justifiable fury. she is a pro, she knows this, i tend to think her steps are intentional here. i do not know her history with this judge or her opinion of this judge and i'm confident she has both, but counselor-- stay right with the judge here pls.

I think she may have previously been the judge's boss

lol i stayed out of court but ppl who both know and are way better'n me always said "you get credibility with a judge one time only. don't fuck it up."

fani's dad is on the stand.

Willis’ father explains why he always keeps cash. pic.twitter.com/mnfYDAsyC5

— Acyn (@Acyn) February 16, 2024

It's notable that a couple things he said like "always keep 6 months worth of cash on hand" and the description of the safes he has in the house match exactly with Fani Willis' testimony. I don't think there can be any doubt that the way that both Wade and Willis described how she paid for everything in cash is true.

BTW, the live chat on the Atlanta News First stream that I've been watching is an utterly insane non-stop flurry of racist comments, extremely ugly

At the risk of sounding flip 1) are you surprised and 2) surely there's a way to watch without having to see anyone's chat

It's only if you stream it on YouTube, and there is absolutely an option to hide the chat.

Totally forgot, isn't the Engoron decision coming today?

Supposedly.

Judges tend to ignore their self-imposed deadlines if they become inconvenient. Or so I hear.

300+ million dollar fine in the NYC case

370!

i havent been keeping a total all the money hes been ordered to pay but it seems like a lot

He's going to have to look in the sofa cushions

Or send out a few more emails

banned from new york for 3 years.

Should be a physical ban imo

yeah, banned from doing business for 3 years. i guess he could still go catch a broadway show.

The former president denied any wrongdoing, calling the case "a fraud on me."

President Diarrhea and his lick spittles consistently whine and moan about how he is being treated unfairly, unlawfully, the deep state is fucking him and real murricans over…

But if you, and only you, an individual participating in ILX who hates Pres Diarrhea and MAGS fuckheads and their cretinous culture with every fiber of your being, found out that there was indeed a deep state conspiracy, which uses unfair/unlawful means to prevent him from assuming the presidency again, would you approve of it? This would mean that he would be irrelevant going forward from now until the day he suffers a grotesque and painful malady resulting in his death. Would you be okay with him being rendered ineffective by completely illegal subterfuge?

* lady gaga voice *

FRAUD. ON. ME.

xp Yes, I believe I would.

Link with more

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/ny-fraud-case-damages-pay-millions-judge-engoron-rcna135283