Jethro Tull: Classic or Dud?

#tullbender

Yeah, I get those once a year.

All the way from from This Was to Broadsword, with only a few missteps, it's ridiculous really.

Interesting timing for a post of this topic — I’ve played Thick As A Brick probably four times this month and have been getting back into it — the last time I intentionally listened to any Tull prior (also Thick As A Brick most likely) was easily twenty years ago when I was also 16. I should probably branch out — I’ve never even heard anything by them outside of Aqualung, Thick As A Brick, and A Passion Play.

Try Benefit and Songs From The Wood next, perhaps.

Thanks! I will indeed start there as Tull has been off my radar for so long that really don’t have any reference points.

Oh cool, good to know that the #ILMTullSupportCircle is going strong.

I, too, have been digging into the Thick as a Brick box – a birthday gift from sometime ILM-er Save the Robot, who has super generously bought me more than a few of these boxes (and who I am also possibly driving nuts with my #EndlessTullObservations).

For the first time I’m actually pouring through the lyrics – I never had the newspaper LP of TAAB as a kid, only the garbage Chrysalis CD issue from the 80s. And they’re really interesting. Likewise with Aqualung the lyrics of which were always a little more ostentatious given the church commentary.

But I’m going down a bunch of rabbit hole websites expounding on the meaning of those records’ lyrics and I’m finding Anderson’s writing to be not only evocative and witty but more sensitive and thoughtful than I’d remembered. Wond’ring Aloud, Again (the complete version) and Slipstream are just gorgeous meditations on commitment, wealth and class that I just didn’t expect out of Anderson.

The TAAB lyrics are maybe a little more inscrutable as a proper “story.” But as a kind of parody, or wayward treatise, on social mores and male responsibilities in late-60s/early-70s England it’s a gas. And the newspaper (which Anderson says took longer to write than the album itself and which themselves were sort of the official record of said mores and responsibilities) is a hilarious complement to it all. The whole thing—lyrically and musically—is sort of simultaneously meaningful and insightful but also a bunch of bollocks and probdvly just what the doctor ordered ca. 1972.

Even though it's much more prosaic, it's interesting that he was writing such thoughtful and unlikely things as 'Back To The Family' as early as 1969.

I think Anderson is a great lyricist. In latter days his structural/linguistic approach has ossified (compare random lines off of RokFlote and Catfish Rising, and they'll feel like they could be from the same album) but I think his choices regarding theme and content are still fascinating. I love love love TAAB2 and Homo Erraticus, and The Zealot Gene most of all. The Secret Language of Birds and Rupi's Dance have several killer songs, lyrically. Roots to Branches, same thing. All of which to say, yes the Stand Up --> Broadsword run is awesome (I've never heard my way into This Was, and I like Under Wraps too actually), but for me the work from Catfish Rising to RokFlote is similarly interesting and rewarding, albeit recorded with lesser backing units than the glorious Bunker/Barlow Tull.

But yes, for sure, he was a lyrical powerhouse in the '70s. TAAB and A Passion Play don't make sense to me as whole stories either, but isolated lines and couplets here and there are clever and thought-provoking and well-phrased enough to repay the attention. Cheap Day Return is one of my favorite songs of all time. Wond'ring Aloud/Again, like NTI said, yes indeed. And so many gems in the decade's end trilogy: Jack-in-the-Woods, Cup of Wonder, Pibroch (!!!), Fires at Midnight (!!!), Moths, Weathercock, Dark Ages, and also Black Sunday, And Further On too... love A...

NTI (or anyone else), would you care to expound a bit on Slipstream? I've never been able to make much sense of it, always just enjoyed the imagery. It's the only Aqualung song Anderson hasn't talked about in interviews. I've wondered whether perhaps it's about his father's illness at a particularly bad moment.

For me, it's hard to push past 'A', I like Broadsword well enough but apart from the odd track everything after that has felt like a bit of a snooze, if somebody was to compile a later period album list of worthwhile tunes I'd be interested though.

It doesn't look like anyone has taken MaresNest up on this in the six years since he wrote the above. Sounds like a nice challenge. I'll get back to you all in a spell.

That's very kind, I've still never really dipped into anything post B&TB

I’ve never even heard anything by them outside of Aqualung, Thick As A Brick, and A Passion Play.

― Slim is an Alien, Friday, February 23, 2024 10:31 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Try Benefit and Songs From The Wood next, perhaps.

― Maresn3st, Friday, February 23, 2024 10:38 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

stand up is top shelf must-hear music, too, an all-time underrated classic imho

NTI (or anyone else), would you care to expound a bit on Slipstream? I've never been able to make much sense of it, always just enjoyed the imagery. It's the only Aqualung song Anderson hasn't talked about in interviews. I've wondered whether perhaps it's about his father's illness at a particularly bad moment.

In just one minute on “Slipstream” Anderson captures the opportunistic shamelessness of the materially rich but spiritually fallow weekend warriors who compensate (figuratively) for their nagging consciences in the confessional or the collection basket (“And you press on God’s waiter your last dime/As he hands you the bill”). On the literal levels these are the people we all know: our peers, parents and especially our politicians, whom Anderson contemptuously nails to their crosses of gold. In an era of too-big-too-fail and the wealthiest .001%, it’s difficult to conclude that Anderson was not predicting the future of a world totally off the tracks in “Locomotive Breath” (“no way to slow down”).

#tullbender

― mookieproof

never been one of those myself, though i greatly respect dee palmer's work with the group

Just seen the price of the new Broadsword & Beast deluxe edition (eek!) but it does have lots of discs, these things seem to get bigger as the series goes on.

Nice that the Chateau sessions got their own release (as a vinyl), I loved that as a bonus disc on Passion Play. Had a glorious time with it.

I think the Broadsword and the Beast was unusually large because they happened to have a ton of unreleased material from that era... I don't think it's a trend (as beyond Bursting Out, any further deluxe book sets being released at all seems to be doubtful)

I guess that's reassuring, I do love these deluxe books but I don't want to spend that much regularly. The Anthony Phillips and Renaissance deluxe editions are also annoyingly expensive.

I do wish they'd continue the booksets through at least Crest of a Knave which delights me in all its Dire Straits-ey goodness (and in the heyday of CDs they managed to keep it down to a tight 48 minutes)

digging living in the past heftily

Has this been posted before?

There's a podcast called 'Talk Tull To Me' that goes through every song in chronological/album order, I listened to a bit of one last night and the two guys (natch) sound like fairly normal human beings chatting about JT, instead of two bored narcissists blabbing on about a load of in-jokes and irrelevant shit.

The episode I heard a bit of, 'Look Into The Sun', sounded decent, I will give it a proper listen although I remain a little sceptical, what can you say for 30+ mins about 'Cheap Day Return' for instance?

― Maresn3st, Monday, May 4, 2020 11:02 AM (three years ago

As I continue my now month-long #TullBender, I have dug into this podcast whilst I walk my dog and schlep my kids around and, well, it's delightful. Two (or maybe just one?) theater/RenFair dudes farfing around about every song doesn't sound like an intriguing proposition at first. But they are self-aware, have great chemistry and have an infectious passion for and insight into this music. The "Baker Street Muse" episode was particularly good, I thought. All told, very fun and highly recommended for those who wonder what it might be like to scale Tull Mountain. Belated thanks, Maresn3st!

All the way from from This Was to Broadsword, with only a few missteps, it's ridiculous really.

I got all the way to Stormwatch, which sounded nice and rich but really suggested that that iteration of the band was running out of energy. The only subsequent songs I've heard (off of several compilations) that really captured me were "Fylingdale Flyer" and "Jack-a-Lynn". I like Eddie Jobson enough that I may listen to A sooner or later. I am curious what songs poster TheNuNuNu will recommend though.

NTI (or anyone else), would you care to expound a bit on Slipstream?

I think it's not just about hypocrisy but about the futility of any material goods to provide meaning or mercy at the point of death. Then you paddle out of the mess of life into...what?
Which connects to what I was thinking about the climax of A Passion Play on the way to work yesterday - the main character reborn not into an ethereal existence but back onto the streets of the city, just everyday life with the freedom to live, not "reflect about living". Something touched me about the warmth of Anderson's concept, that the joy of life is represented as being reborn on a busy street without ceremony or fuss.

Thanks for the help with Slipstream!

Gonna do this "The Great Wastes Beyond Broadsword" compilation thing in (I think) three chapters.

Part 1 - 1983-1991
Part 2 - 1995-2003
Part 3 - since 2012

MaresNest asked about a "later period album list of worthwhile tunes." There's plenty of those, provided you're in the right mood for the sound/feel of their parent albums, so I narrowed the criteria for inclusion down to "songs that should make someone who's on board with the This Was --> Broadsword Tull say 'oh yeah, this is neat.'"

Here's Part 1.

1. Trains (from Walk Into Light, 1983)
From the first Ian Anderson "solo album" (really a close collaboration with Peter-John Vettese, who had a big hand in Broadsword too). The synth arrangements are nothing special, but structurally this one is a lot of fun. Good melodies and lyrics too.

2. End Game (from Walk Into Light, 1983)
The chorus is merely alright, but I love the eerie verses, the keyboard lines, the off-time percussion.

3. Toad in the Hole (from Walk Into Light, 1983)
This one is just terrific. If you like Songs from the Wood/Heavy Horses/Stormwatch, you'll like this.

4. European Legacy (from Under Wraps, 1984)
The brutal '80s mix obscures how weird and ambitious the writing on Under Wraps is: the proggiest thing between A Passion Play and Homo Erraticus. For years now, Ian's been talking about redoing the album's drum tracks with live drums. If they do a big overhaul in the mix while they're at it, rehabilitation will be in order.

5. Part of the Machine (1988)
I'm skipping Crest of a Knave because, even though I like it, I wouldn't impose its imitation-Dire Straitsyness on any fan of '70s Tull. Crest is for deep sea divers only. Rock Island fares better, if you can stomach the sound, but both albums take a serious beating from their decade. This song was written between the two and surfaced on some compilation or other. It's good as is, but just think -- if this had a Heavy Horses arrangement?

6. Strange Avenues (from Rock Island, 1989)
Starts with a great ominous instrumental intro. And then it turns into that rare thing, a GOOD sequel song.

7. Truck Stop Runner (1991)
Catfish Rising outtake, light and bright and fun, like Strip Cartoon or The Third Hurrah or something -- it's got that '70s air about it.

8. Like a Tall Thin Girl (from Catfish Rising, 1991)
I have to kind of shamefacedly explain why I like Under Wraps, Crest of a Knave, or Rock Island, but I make no apologies for Catfish Rising. The band is revitalized. Ian Anderson is acting pervy as hell. He's not working around his voice damage by speak-singing like Knopfler anymore, he embraces the growl. And -- what matters most -- the songwriting is terrific. But go for the ten-track LP tracklist. The extra stuff on the CD isn't bad, but dilutes the LP's kick, and anyway all the best stuff is on the LP.

9. Thinking Round Corners (from Catfish Rising, 1991)
See? Isn't this just excellent?

10. This Is Not Love (from Catfish Rising, 1991)
I read these lyrics before I heard the song. They're what got me exploring post-Broadsword Tull at all: "Wait, Ian was still writing this well in '91?!" I didn't expect a hard rock arrangement -- I thought it'd sound like Back Door Angels -- but taken on its own terms, the arrangement works. Kicks ass, even.

awesome

I'd add Silver River Turning in to that solid list

(think it's Catfish Rising-era)

I have a boring long(ish) drive ahead of me on Monday so I shall make a Spotify playlist, thanks so much!

I'm not too bad into Tull but they have some songs I really love - "Mother Goose", "The Whistler", "Inside"...what else have they got like that? I don't really know the albums beyond Thick as a Brick that well.

I'm a big fan of the Crest/Rock/Catfish era, probably because those were the "new" Tull albums coming out when I got into them back in the day, but the Thirsty Dire Straits years are indeed difficult to recommend to others. Anderson was so damn horny for some reason and most of the time it's just sort of gross. Like Budapest or Undressed to Kill, ugh. Come on, man. Said She Was a Dancer is pretty funny though. And Heavy Water is a good jam where he mostly keeps it in check. And Rocks on the Road from Catfish Rising.

XP - Hey frogbs, this isn't a direct answer to your question, but maybe just go straight for A Passion Play and bang the whole thing with your prog listener wizard's hat on and see how that goes.

Anderson was so damn horny for some reason

I dunno, it's pretty unambiguous that "Kissing Willie" is about a man dismayed at his lover's dalliance with his best friend.

Frogbs - another vote for A Passion Play, it's stunning, get the latest mix if you can and the bonus disc. I have to wonder if the poor reception of this album particularly changed anything

This is probably sacrilegious when it comes to an art-rock band (if that's what they were...), but I'd start with M.U. – The Best of Jethro Tull, one of the few albums I loved in high school that I'd still happily listen to today.

Frog: you could try Up to Me and Cheap Day Return in the Mother Goose direction, Jack-in-the-Green and One Brown Mouse over The Whistler's way. (And A Passion Play is my favorite Tull, definitely worth a listen.)

M.U. – The Best of Jethro Tull

That is an impeccable tracklist, in an interesting order. Whose idea was it to include Rainbow Blues?!

I don’t think I’ve ever known what M.U. stands for. It’s not something obvious, I hope?

and the rain wasn't made of water!

M.U. = "musician's union"

they have some songs I really love - "Mother Goose", "The Whistler", "Inside"...what else have they got like that?

Singing All Day
Wond'ring Aloud/Again
Life's a Long Song
Alive and Well and Living In
Fat Man
Jeffrey Goes To Leicester Square
Dr. Bogenbroom
Teacher
Up to Me
Cheap Day Return
Up the 'Pool
Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day
Salamander
Moths
Fire at Midnight
Broadford Bazaar
Home

...as you go later, their albums will usually have 2-3 more acoustic and poppier numbers, but they kinda get increasingly baroque

"Acres Wild" and "Left, Right" are two of my favorites

I consider 'Velvet Green' to be the epitome Jethro Tull song. But I'm very much impressed by their entire discography. I'd agree that especially anything from their first 16-album(!!!) run up until and including Crest of a Knave can especially be highly recommended - perhaps rather the first 14-album run as album 15 (Under Wraps) seems weaker in comparison (although apparently that's a favourite of Martin Barre). But there's plenty to love afterwards, it's just that the albums may overall get a bit less memorable or outstanding in their entirety but I don't think any one of them is bad. Perhaps the most recent two (Zealot Gene / RökFlöte) do the least to me but they're fine enough - I guess they did suffer from Barre's omission.

There's a lot of beauty on Ian Anderson's solo albums too, I especially like the instrumental Divinities and also The Secret Language of Birds and Rupi's Dance, both of which sound like natural follow-ups to the preceding Tull albums Roots To Branches/Dot Com.

I sampled Walk Into Light and the synthesizer background is a lot more tasteful than what I've heard of Under Wraps, it actually seems like a valid turn for Anderson to take in 1983 both commercially and creatively. That matters to me because, though I like a lot of his/their music, I also find the Tull range to be somewhat limited - the downside, perhaps, of its distinctiveness.

The words to "This is Not Love" are quite imaginative and imagistic but the riffs and melody never really catch for me, so it's atmospheric without the music putting feelings into the story. I do find these lists interesting and look forward to the next two instalments.

As I continue my now month-long #TullBender, I have dug into this podcast whilst I walk my dog and schlep my kids around and, well, it's delightful. Two (or maybe just one?) theater/RenFair dudes farfing around about every song doesn't sound like an intriguing proposition at first. But they are self-aware, have great chemistry and have an infectious passion for and insight into this music. The "Baker Street Muse" episode was particularly good, I thought. All told, very fun and highly recommended for those who wonder what it might be like to scale Tull Mountain. Belated thanks, Maresn3st!

― Naive Teen Idol, Monday, March 4, 2024 3:32 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

As my #TullBender stretches into yet another week, I'm just about finishing up the 8th and final Talk Tull To Me episode on TAAB -- which has been great. It's def. a time commitment, but they do an excellent job digging into the "story," which has always been kind of a puzzle to me. The podcast goes pretty deep into the characters and archetypes Anderson populates it with, and ultimately they kind of conclude what I said above about it, but it's been a fun journey nonetheless.

I started digging through TheNuNuNu's list above -- I didn't know a lot of it and am more partial to Rock Island than Catfish Rising which I used to own. I'm still not 100% sure of the songwriting on the latter--he sure was pervy around that time--but there's a lot of sprightly mandolin on that record for sure.

To get back to the original post about Tull being a great singles band, I nominate the Stormwatch bonus track 'Kelpie' as their 'way ahead of its time' potential smash hit, had it been released/remade in the late-'90s by a hopeful popstar. The propulsion of the bass and drums, the instrumental counter-melody in the verses, the subtle use of guitar squeals at the ends of verse sections, the moments of silence, the wild bridge, plus the rhythmic cadence of the vocal melody - it's not quite Max Martin or Bloodshy/Avant & Britney's 'Toxic', but it's not not that! There's some serious 'music as math' going on here. I could totally have seen the late Denniz Pop (or Jellybean Benitez) loving this track, and remaking/reinterpolating it into some huge dancefloor banger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyR7pdLDz_g

Problem is, it's in triple time! So the only dancing it will inspire are jigs.

It's not one of their greatest songs but "A Small Cigar" is such a funny idea with really funny lyrics, it was only released as bonus material
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBIA06c4L3s

I mean it does sound good but much of the amusement comes from the lyrics

they have some songs I really love - "Mother Goose", "The Whistler", "Inside"...what else have they got like that?

Singing All Day
Wond'ring Aloud/Again
Life's a Long Song
Alive and Well and Living In
Fat Man
Jeffrey Goes To Leicester Square
Dr. Bogenbroom
Teacher
Up to Me
Cheap Day Return
Up the 'Pool
Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day
Salamander
Moths
Fire at Midnight
Broadford Bazaar
Home

...as you go later, their albums will usually have 2-3 more acoustic and poppier numbers, but they kinda get increasingly baroque

― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Saturday, March 9, 2024 7:49 PM (two weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

thanks, as I go through these I have come to the conclusion that I actually do like Jethro Tull

I'd say that the odds are better that a given Tull song will be worthy if it's a ballad or "pop" song than a riff-rocker, maybe partly because the rockers last longer and have to make space for various often-monotonous instrumental solos.

Still, some eternal riffs in the Tull catalogue: Locomotive Breath, No Lullaby, Sweet Dream. Cross-eyed Mary, Hunting Girl, Something's On The Move, etc.

Frogbs - have you done Passion Play yet?

In the documentary I watched last year Dee Palmer said that Eddie Jobson was the dictionary definition of a wizard (she even said which dictionary, oxford maybe?) and I looked it up and didn't really catch her meaning, I suspected it was an insult but maybe not.