Donald Trump: Classic or Dud?

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I think the Trump fans (and other small time investors who love meme stocks) who are buying into the Digital World stock based on the buzz around it being the vehicle for an IPO of Truth Social definitely believe they will make money from it. I'd put my money on the more experienced meme stock traders to make money on this. Ordinary Trump devotees who get lured in are just being set up as the 'bigger fools' in this deal.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 21 March 2024 19:57 (one month ago) link

The stock’s market capitalisation is completely unhinged from its underlying fundamental business value.

feel like you could say this about a great many things

mookieproof, Thursday, 21 March 2024 20:34 (one month ago) link

I love the inference that businesses are fleeing because of his trial. Also, "a true Trump Hater".

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 21 March 2024 20:48 (one month ago) link

is "ELECTION INTERFERENCE" an instruction to his supporters?

This is Dance Anthems, have some respect (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 21 March 2024 20:50 (one month ago) link

and his attorneys failed to file timely paperwork for a jury trial

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 21 March 2024 20:52 (one month ago) link

the Jon Lovitz reference is very weird but I think a good insight to how his brain works

frogbs, Thursday, 21 March 2024 20:56 (one month ago) link

On some level in Trump's mind it is always 1986.

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Thursday, 21 March 2024 20:58 (one month ago) link

I like to see if there is a possible hidden message in what he chooses to put in all caps:

THIN AIR, CRAZY, VERY EXPENSIVE FLEEING ELECTION INTERFERENCE

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 21 March 2024 21:00 (one month ago) link

xp before everyone hated him

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 21 March 2024 21:01 (one month ago) link

This Axios story is worth bookmarking as a reference/explainer:

What may happen if Trump can't secure $464M bond in New York fraud case

Former President Trump has until Monday to post a $464 million bond to appeal New York's fraud case against him or else New York Attorney General Letitia James may begin to collect the court-ordered damages in the case.

Why it matters: Trump's lawyers said this week securing a bond that size has been "impossible" after they approached more than two dozen companies and none were willing to cover the amount.

Trump has denied any wrongdoing in the case.

The latest: James took a first step toward seizing Trump's properties by filing judgements on March 6 in Westchester County, according to the county clerk's online database.

It suggests James may seek to seize and sell the Trump National Golf Club Westchester or his Seven Springs private estate north of Manhattan to help fulfill the judgement.

What does this indicate about Trump's finances?
Trump's lawyers said no company would accept his real estate as collateral and would only accept cash or cash equivalents.

Trump's inability to secure a bond under those terms at the very least suggests he lacks access to a large amount of liquid assets.

This may in part be because he posted a nearly $92 million bond earlier this month to appeal the $83.3 million in damages he was ordered to pay writer E. Jean Carroll for defamation by denying her sexual assault allegations.

What is a bond?
In this case, it's a guarantee that the money for the damages will be available in case Trump's appeals ultimately fail.

Typically, a defendant hoping to appeal legal damages will approach companies to post the bond on its behalf in exchange for a fee that's a percentage of the total bond amount.

The bond is usually covered by cash or other liquid assets presented by the defendant as collateral. Real estate is rarely accepted as collateral because of the lengthy appraisal process and its value being influenced by market fluctuations.

The bond allows defendants to exhaust their legal options while protecting the court from frivolous appeals. It also shields plaintiffs from dishonest tactics to delay payment and from the defendant's financial situation.

What's next: If the appeals fail, the defendant will be required to pay the judgment. If they can't, the plaintiff may collect the damages from the bond company and the defendant would be required to reimburse the company.

If a defendant wins the appeal and the damages are overturned or reduced, the company still retains the fee.

Why is Trump's appeal amount so high?
Trump's bond is nearly half a billion dollars because he was ordered to pay nearly that amount in damages and interest after being found liable for financial fraud for falsifying business records.

New York law requires defendants in civil cases to post a bond worth at least 110% of the judgment amount to delay paying the penalty as they appeal.

Since Trump is on the hook for $454 million in the civil fraud lawsuit, his appeal bond is $464 million.

What they're saying: Trump's lawyers said securing that is a "practical impossibility" because only a very few companies would accept a bond of that amount.

The only ones that would accept the bond require collateral worth approximately $557 million in the form of cash or cash equivalents and would charge nearly $20 million in fees, his lawyers said.

What happens if Trump can't pay?
James could have started collecting on the damages after the judgment was imposed in January, but she gave Trump and his co-defendants a 30-day grace period to arrange a bond or prepare to pay the judgment.

If the grace period ends on March 25 without a bond posting, James will be entitled to collect.

She could begin seizing and selling Trump's properties to fulfill the judgment. James has said she would do so if he can't pay, though actually doing so could be politically contentious.

It would also be legally complex given the tangled structure and financing used by his businesses.

James could also give Trump more time to pay the damages or arrange a lower amount through a counterproposal.

Besides the bond, what can Trump do?
Trump has asked an appeals court to pause collecting on the judgment while he appeals or to accept a much lower bond of $100 million. However, it's not certain the appeals court will rule before the March 25 deadline.

If it rules against Trump, he could appeal to the state's highest court, but there's no guarantee he would be able to prevent James from collecting if he did so.

Trump could come up with the liquidity needed for the bond collateral by selling one of his properties, though such a fast sell would likely come with major financial losses.

He could also have the businesses implicated in the case declare bankruptcy, which would prevent James from collecting but would significantly damage his reputation and could ignite more litigation over corporate debts.

Context: Considering some of Trump's companies had a string of bankruptcies in the 1990s and early 2000s that nearly financially ruined him, it's unlikely his companies will file for bankruptcy again.

While Trump campaign fundraising committees have started using the bond deadline and the potential property seizures in donation requests, it won't help with the bond or judgement.

One appeal to supporters said, "Keep your filthy hands off of Trump Tower," in response to James' threat to seize Trump's properties to pay the judgment.

The Federal Elections Commission allows certain campaign funds to be used to pay for legal expenses, but using funds to pay a bond or a judgement would likely violate campaign finance laws.

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Thursday, 21 March 2024 21:07 (one month ago) link

"Even though I did nothing wrong, the crooked Hades, a very unpopular god, has refused to allow my soul free passage. He is demanding that I stay in his house, which he keeps very dark and cold, and is always full of mist. (What is he trying to hide??) Your drachmae will help me expose this creep, who is one of the biggest Trump haters around, and blow the lid off his so-called Underworld!" - Memorial inscription, Trump Sarcophagus

The king of the demo (bernard snowy), Thursday, 21 March 2024 21:11 (one month ago) link

so many people are going to think contempt of court isn't a thing anymore just because this guy can do it without getting punished...

StanM, Thursday, 21 March 2024 21:33 (one month ago) link

This Axios story🕸 is worth bookmarking as a reference/explainer:


thank you, i will add this to my bookmarks (?)

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 22 March 2024 01:03 (one month ago) link

heh

lag∞n, Friday, 22 March 2024 01:04 (one month ago) link

Might as well formalize it! https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/21/us/politics/trump-legal-bills-rnc.html?smid=url-share

Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 March 2024 03:09 (one month ago) link

this guy...

scott seward, Friday, 22 March 2024 03:19 (one month ago) link

if he wasn't such a racist shithead i might even be rooting for him! bankrupt the republican party and then ride off into the night. ordinarily a plan i could get behind.

scott seward, Friday, 22 March 2024 03:20 (one month ago) link

so are all the corporate donors locked in already orrrr

frogbs, Friday, 22 March 2024 03:23 (one month ago) link

Going back a bit

ny-poised-to-seize-trump-westchester-assets

Might one say they that they will... lock them up?

And as for

for an IPO of Truth

It's too late to change events
It's time to face the consequence
For delivering the proof
For an IPO of Truth

alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 22 March 2024 03:32 (one month ago) link

so are all the corporate donors locked in already orrrr

Haha hardly. There's been reports of general reticence among that bunch precisely because of moves like this.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 March 2024 03:41 (one month ago) link

"On SNL when it was good" Okay Boomer

I mean, it's not wrong, per se... lots of people can like previous incarnations of SNL more than they like more recent ones. But "back when SNL was actually FUNNY" has become such a basic, trite cliche that it's lost all meaning. It's tiresome.

alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 22 March 2024 03:44 (one month ago) link

In this case I read it entirely as “SNL before they mocked me.”

Requiem for a Dream: The Musical! (Dan Peterson), Friday, 22 March 2024 03:46 (one month ago) link

its also a weird thing to bring up in a social media post accusing a federal judge of being corrupt especially when you are a presidential candidate

frogbs, Friday, 22 March 2024 03:48 (one month ago) link

In the lead up to the 2016 election, a colleague was convinced that Trump was going to win, and was all doom and gloom about it. “Tut-tut!” said I knowingly, “he won’t possibly win- and not only that, but he will destroy the Republican Party as he goes down in flames, to the point that it will never recover!” Something like that anyway.

I certainly had egg on my face when he won- but as of now, I like to think that I stand a reasonable chance of having been half right before all is said and done!

epistantophus, Friday, 22 March 2024 03:48 (one month ago) link

It’s weird, but one of the ridiculous things about Trump is his obsession with the media and how he is covered in it. He can’t separate the topics in his mind even if he tries. xp

Requiem for a Dream: The Musical! (Dan Peterson), Friday, 22 March 2024 03:59 (one month ago) link

It’s what you get when you elect a pathological narcissist as president.

Requiem for a Dream: The Musical! (Dan Peterson), Friday, 22 March 2024 04:02 (one month ago) link

He should offer up top secret documents as collateral, let the state of NY grapple with some cool nuke plans.

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Friday, 22 March 2024 04:09 (one month ago) link

So this dumbass just boasted that he *does* have $500 million in cash?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 22 March 2024 13:27 (one month ago) link

Keep talking, Donnie

Marten Broadcloak, mild-mannered GOP congressman (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 22 March 2024 13:29 (one month ago) link

SNL was funny back when Jon Lovitz, Dennis Miller, Victoria Jackson, Rob Schneider and Jim Bruer were on it

President Keyes, Friday, 22 March 2024 13:29 (one month ago) link

Weird aside about that Jon Lovitz sketch. I had a family friend at the time who used to go around saying "yeah, that's the ticket." He was in his teens and I was about 6 years old, so I didn't have the frame of reference for SNL. But I looked up to this kid and started saying it on my own. Trump's screed led me to look up the Lovitz bit on YouTube, and as soon as he started talking, I realized that this was the origin of that phrase.

peace, man, Friday, 22 March 2024 13:45 (one month ago) link

....I thought it was a three stooges thing...

m0stly clean (Slowsquatch), Friday, 22 March 2024 13:46 (one month ago) link

Good point. Lovitz didn't create the phrase, but I'm pretty sure that's where my friend got it. I remember it coming into my lexicon in 1985 or 86.

peace, man, Friday, 22 March 2024 13:50 (one month ago) link

...I think a similar thing happened with "you dirty rat"... originally a 30s gangster line (cagney? robinson?), but had a later revival in the 80s, maybe also from snl?

m0stly clean (Slowsquatch), Friday, 22 March 2024 14:09 (one month ago) link

I think maybe “you dirty rat” was reintroduced into the popular lexicon by the fast-talking Michael Keaton character in “Johnny Dangerously”?

henry s, Friday, 22 March 2024 15:18 (one month ago) link

and bugs bunny probably.

scott seward, Friday, 22 March 2024 15:27 (one month ago) link

i feel like rich little kept things alive for decades. definitely bogey.

scott seward, Friday, 22 March 2024 15:28 (one month ago) link

Also "You dirty rat" was famously not actually said on screen.

President Keyes, Friday, 22 March 2024 15:29 (one month ago) link

you dirty rat = cagney impersonators

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVFRI0h5NFw

just like Christopher Wray said (brownie), Friday, 22 March 2024 15:38 (one month ago) link

The line from Blonde Crazy (1931) is "Oh, that dirty, double-crossin' rat! I'd like to get my hooks on him. I'd tear him to pieces!" Hack impressions reduced it to "You dirty rat!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXxZCrM04uI

Infanta Terrible (j.lu), Friday, 22 March 2024 16:43 (one month ago) link

Also, from Taxi! (1932): "Come out and take it, ya dirty, yellow-bellied rat, or I'll give it to ya through the door!"

Kim Kimberly, Friday, 22 March 2024 16:54 (one month ago) link

love how this thread is devolving

Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 22 March 2024 17:25 (one month ago) link

trump: a dirty rat

schrodingers cat was always cool (Hunt3r), Friday, 22 March 2024 17:44 (one month ago) link

buncha headlines today about how Trump just made billions from some merger, I'm sure that's legit

frogbs, Friday, 22 March 2024 17:45 (one month ago) link

Theoretically he has, but not exactly. Two good threads by Mitchell Epner with the details:

https://bsky.app/profile/mitchellepner.bsky.social/post/3koc6yudg7c2l

https://bsky.app/profile/mitchellepner.bsky.social/post/3kocdvboqms23

TL; DR: lots of restrictions and even his own hand-picked board would basically be risking their own money in general if they gave him everything, and even then the value itself is not exactly clear.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 March 2024 18:03 (one month ago) link

That said, Epner notes the board can potentially do something but there are still weird pitfalls (more in his replies, which may not be open to all — a key point, believe it or not, is that Don Jr can’t be involved). Backtrack from here:

https://bsky.app/profile/mitchellepner.bsky.social/post/3kocknljjkv2b

Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 March 2024 18:47 (one month ago) link

So DWAC (the company Trump is sweatily hoping to merge Truth Social with) lost 13% of its already imaginary share price today. As someone said on Bluesky, "remind me, is it a good idea to announce that a pump and dump is a pump and dump before the dump phase?"

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Friday, 22 March 2024 22:14 (one month ago) link


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