Donald Trump: Classic or Dud?

John Ganz, who I find worthwhile even when I don't totally agree with him, has an interesting post up about a new collection of essays debating the "Is Trump Fascist" question. Ganz is more on the side of "yes" — calling Trump semi- or proto-fascist — but is mostly writing about how dug in some of the liberal intellectuals in the "No he isn't" camp are, and why.

https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/what-happened-here

I've never been sure how much this debate really matters, since I think the actual facts of Trump are pretty plain for everyone to see, whatever you call them. Ganz otm here: "The simple fact is this: Trump would be dictator if he could, but it’s not that easy, and he probably won’t be able to become one. I don’t think anybody can honestly say, 'No, he really doesn’t have that aspiration or will at all.'”

I think Trump is very used to having his word be law in his companies, however much of a sham they are. No doubt, he would like the government be the same way. I can't think of a more obvious example, in this country at least, of someone letting the power of the presidency go to his head.

I think he's clearly a fascist, but not like other fascists in history, for example I think he would without a doubt sell out the entire Republican party if it meant ridding him of his legal issues

Perlstein has a related thread:

I said no more, but I think it might be a useful contribution to expand upon a criticism I've had on @coreyrobin's classic everyone has to read, The Reactionary Mind, since it became such a powerful influence on me upon first reading. It ends making the argument that...

— Rick Perlstein (@rickperlstein) March 31, 2024

...the gist of which is that just because Trump isn't Hitler or Mussolini doesn't mean he isn't a fascist.

Americans keep expecting their fascism to be of that of a Golan-Globus movie villain, which is the only reason they deny he's a fascist

"if he was a fascist, he'd tell us!"

just like when Lindsay Graham was saying "it wasn't a quid pro quo, he didn't announce he was doing a crime"

I wonder if Right Wing intellectuals are arguing right now about whether Biden is really a commie or not.

right wing intellectuals kinda contradicting itself there

"He told the protestors to go to the Capitol peacefully!"

Robert O. Paxton got it right:

– A sense of overwhelming crisis beyond the reach of any traditional solutions;

– The primacy of the group, toward which one has duties superior to every right, whether individual or universal, and the subordination of the individual to it;

– The belief that one’s group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external;

– Dread of the group’s decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences;

– The need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary;

– The need for authority by natural chiefs (always male), culminating in a national chieftain who alone is capable of incarnating the group’s historical destiny;

– The superiority of the leader’s instincts over abstract and universal reason;

– The beauty of violence and the efficacy of will, when they are devoted to the group’s success;

– The right of the chosen people to dominate others without restraint from any kind of human or divine law, right being decided by the sole criterion of the group’s prowess within a Darwinian struggle.

P

- Anything is possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PytXN5guhFw

the is he a fascist debate is fun cause no one can agree what fascism is the only thing they can agree on is its a hard thing to pin down, i do think hes a fascist fwiw hes just low energy

He’s a lazy fascist

if he were younger and smarter he would be scarier but he's still scary as far as the damage he can inflict.

waterface beat me to it

hes already done a lot of harm and lord knows what hell get up to if hes elected again

also his fascist-friendly masterminds like stephen miller and bannon aren't exactly geniuses. which also helps.

i just think a swifter scary guy - if they had won in 2016 - would have had a complete 4 year plan drawn up and be ready to go. trump's team famously couldn't really figure out how to destroy big government too speedily. luckily. it isn't as easy at it looks in the movies.

fascists tend not to be the sharpest most competent guys but they have some insight into power at all costs and riling people up which sometimes is enough

they did their worst though! they definitely broke some of the china. credit where credit is due.

tbf america has a pretty robust government its some teetering rinky dink state

*not some

it's what barely got us through 2020

having outside forces help you with your *let's wreck america* campaign helps a lot too and i don't see that happening? even people as evil as koch brothers aren't supporting him. he doesn't have a company like IBM like Hitler did. willing to go along with his crazy crap and help him achieve his goals. right wing billionaires just want tax breaks. not death camps. i think...i hope....

hes def got his rich guy supporters, and i think generally corporate america is fine with him, but ultimately theyd rather just have a regular predictable politician in there cause they already had a good thing going, but make no mistake if america goes fascist theyll be right there along for the ride with the nytimes et al

what's the little-known king of subprime car loans getting in return though?

oh no...

TRUMP-HANKEY 2024

RFK Jr. got the ball rolling, let's just go full-bore into presidential candidates automatically naming their biggest donors as their VP picks, why not, we still have a long way to go before we reach peak cynicism

so sad that a kennedy needed some tech arriviste to pay for stuff

None of the actual fascists of the past were super-smart either, it takes other skills to be a successful fascist: total lack of shame, complete belief in one's own righteousness, etc.

Being a sociopath obviously helps. I think Trump is definitely one.

hes still got it baby

Former President Donald Trump has sued two of his co-founders at Truth Social in an attempt to acquire their stake in the company, which went public late last month.

In a suit filed on March 24, but first reported by Bloomberg on Tuesday, Trump accused The Apprentice star Andy Litinsky and Wes Moss of failing in their duties to properly set up Truth Social, which resulted in “significant damage” to the company at “a critical time.”

At the time of the lawsuit, Trump owned 90 million shares, or 90% of Trump Media Group. Litinsky and Moss’ company United Atlantic Ventures owned 8,600,000 shares, or 8.6%, while Bradford Cohen owned 1,400,000 shares (1.4%).

https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-sues-truth-social-co-founders-for-their-stake-in-company/

Lol Litinsky is a conservative radio show host. I wonder if it’s awkward talking about how great Trump is while he’s suing you.

I've given up any expectations that anything will happen to this asshole (short of maybe being reelected to the White House, which is of course totally reasonable for a discredited and dangerous con man imbecile), but the latest legal stuff with the classified documents is pretty fascinating, from a strategy standpoint. When last we heard from our hero Eileen Cannon, she gave both prosecution and defense the order to come up with different jury instructions, apparently just for lols/vibes. Trump defense came up with something predictably ad hoc that hinged on BS that the presidential records act allowed Trump to do ... basically anything. Prosecution response calls Cannon on bullshit, saying the Trump jury instruction defense is not based in law, essentially telling her to either rule and dismiss the case (which can be appealed) or forget this dueling jury instruction shit.

Turns out that if the judge fucks up (intentionally or not) and makes a decision mid-trial based on erroneous bullshit and the jury comes back with a not guilty, the prosecution can *not* appeal. So prosecution in this case is, as I understand it, demanding the bullshit games stop, that Cannon rules/dismisses the case so they can appeal or they're going over Cannon's head.

Again, nothing is going to happen to Trump or Cannon or anything or anybody, ever, but it's nice to see some dramatic pushback.

Question: Assuming he does not win the election to pres this time, isn't he just going to come back again in four years? Until croak or win?

No I reckon he’ll take the L with grace and dignity

Be nicer if someone pushed him back off the edge of one of his shitty skyscrapers

^^"Russian Mob, are you listening?"

a sharp rebuke!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/03/trump-documents-case-cannon-jack-smith/

i was being kind of tongue-in-cheek about repeatedly joking/suggesting that trump would have no trouble paying the bonds because there's almost a limitless number of incredibly evil billionaires who want a president to owe them a favor. but...i just want to confirm - trump's bond was paid by some rich subprime auto loan guy who pretty much no one had ever heard of until this week, right?

i do compartmentalize my optimism and pessimism these days, and i am very optimistic about my life and what i'm doing. but all that pessimism has to go somewhere and yeah i don't think trump will ever suffer any sort of significant consequence, and neither will any of his dumbass children. he's responsible for hundreds of thousands of people dying that should not have died, and no one will even ask him about that ever again. he doesn't have to think about it.

since i'm doing classic pre-coffee i'm angry at trump rant, i'll add that i don't think this will end when he's dead. christian fascism is accelerating and they're not going to go back to how things were because they can't anymore

I can't stand that Trump!

trump's bond was paid by some rich subprime auto loan guy who pretty much no one had ever heard of until this week, right?

It is and the fact that any number of actually-more-flush billionaires didn't -- and that it took a week instead of out of the gate -- is telling enough.

*sips coffee*

well perhaps this will end when he's dead!

xp ned but (and i'm cosplaying a rich person here, i don't know) maybe those more flush billionaires didn't post his bond because they knew that some lower-tier billionaire like the subprime auto loans guy would do it for them?

good morning, where's the consequences?

xpost Which also says something. "Hmm, a guy who sues and stiffs just about everyone to avoid having to actually pay anything if he has to. Yeahhhhhh I'll let someone else be that stupid patsy." (Remember, if the appeals process changing nothing, this subprime dude coughs up, and if Trump tries to get out of making him whole from there...well, that'll be deeply hilarious.)

most billionaires prob like trump less than say biden or some more normal politician because hes unstable and doesnt really care about their carefully constructed system, he had to find a billionaire whos specifically into trump type stuff

I would actually very much agree!

wall st guys dont want someone who might cut off arms donations to ukraine pumping money into the defense industry is a core practice of the economy, some auto loan guy tho does he care he prob should but hes just into trump stuff he likes it