Rolling US Economy Into The Shitbin Thread

yeah, i'm really an amateur about economics, but i'm kind of surprised that the fannie mae/freddie mac bombshell happened now and not sometime months ago. why is this?

Short-sellers piling in, maybe?

Does the 95% "institution owned" statistic for both of these companies have something to do with their semi-government-backed structure?

A perfect photo for today (though I don't think it was taken today, sadly):

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/images/2008/07/11/k3uny1nc.jpg

Actually that deserves a 'Caption this photo' thread...

Caption this photo (Fannie Mae/Freddie Mae/economic collapse edition)

Does the 95% "institution owned" statistic for both of these companies have something to do with their semi-government-backed structure?

Well I imagine that contributed to the view that these were relatively safe investments that encouraged institutional investors to hold them. That could also be contributing to the free-fall, if all these institutions decide to get out at once.

Well I don't know enough about how that stat is calculated and how up-to-date it is. I mean if a stock is 95% institution owned, a precipitous drop like this can ONLY come from institutions selling it off. Unless the number somehow reflects the fact that everyone else has been selling and only institutions are holding.

I don't think that number's very up-to-date - probably updated monthly or less, I'd guess. I'm not sure how it's calculated though I guess these institutions periodically issue reports on what they've bought and sold, so that might be the source. I think these institutions typically trade in such large blocks that they usually try to place a block with another institution if they have to sell so that they don't move the market too much, but if they really are desperate to sell and they can't find someone willing to take a large block, then I guess they might have to sell in smaller lots. I'm not sure though.

so much for IndyMac.

The company was desperate for more capital but couldn't find investors willing to put fresh funds into what looked like a crippled institution.

A growing number of banks are facing a similar, if less dire, challenge, as investors who pumped billions of dollars into capital-hungry banks are now starting to balk at throwing good money after bad.

An exodus of depositors added to IndyMac's woes. Deposits are the lifeblood of banks, providing them with a stable, low-cost source of cash to fund their daily operations and lending activities. After Mr. Schumer raised questions about the bank, depositors withdrew $1.3 billion in 11 days.

It's unclear how much the failure will cost the FDIC.

Part of me wants a total world economic collapse just so I can hear how surreal Kai Rysdall sounds reading completely horrific news in his cheerful style.

barry's line today made me irlol

Fannie (FNM) and Freddie (FRE) fell more than 25% each, as the bailout plan makes it clear that shareholders are not going to be rewarded for showing such bad judgment as to own this crap.

So like, what are the options Obama is offering? (In case he does actually win the presidency). I heard he's supposedly to be less progressive than Clinton on these US recession woes?

WE GONNA DIE

I never thought Tom would turn into Jar Jar Binks.

The front page of the Washington Post is LOL today: two articles on the sinking economy and part 3 of a like 15 part series on CHANDRA LEVY

You know, taking you back to the last recession.

ok i'm a dunce about all this but bear with me, this is me half-repeating stuff i've read in a several different places

the housing crisis is huge but underlying inflation is part of the cause of it: ppl are more likely to skip out on a mortgage payment than on food or gas. so oil prices are the lurking problem underneath the entire slowdown. oil is more expensive lately but not as much as it seems in the US - oil is priced in dollars and all the foreign producers still want to make they money even tho the dollar is weak.

the dollar is weak because of the terrible fiscal position of the US government (monetary policy is no help here, either that or a relatively loose monetary policy actually hurts too?). our fiscal picture looks so bad because of massive wartime borrowing and spending (the war(s) and concomitant hawkishness re: iran are part of the instability premium on oil as well). the US congress and populace may have itself fooled that running the war off the books in emergency spending bills makes it free, but the economists at every bank and firm on the globe are not stupid -- they are right to not value the greenback very much. so, if we want to fix the economy, we have to end the war?

am i totally amateurishly zmag wrong about this or what

we have to do a lot more than stop spending on shock & awe surge funtime & dinar casino games to fix this shit

I briefly considered taking the day off today to go down in front of the hill and make myself a posterboard sign saying NO BAILOUT but it's really hot

no bailout rly?

i would like to get all the garbage out of the system and finally see where the bottom is, since that's what everyone seems to want to know. but i also don't want to be selling matches on the corner of marshall and snelling either

Nothing can stop that now.

http://www.bertdecker.com/photos/uncategorized/wheels_off_jpeg_1.jpg

i plan to offer pencils also

the dollar is weak because americans have spent beyond their means for deacdes and had the rest of the world finance it. the war et al have been catalysts perhaps but as tombot says, it'll take a lot more than no more shock and awe o fix this shit.

china (and to a lesser extent, india) is industrializing like crazy, creating demand for commodities on a quantitively different level than the world has known to date. this means that unless the earth has an abundance of presently unknown natural resources, prices are going to new levels where there are likely to remain.

meanwhile, speaking for russia at least, despite the fact that oil production is down slightly, a significant minority of people i know believe that the nasty secret is that oil companies are not particularly bothered about boosting productino to meet higher demand because the oil they pump next year will fetch a higher price than whatever they pump this year. (admittedly we're starting to see cost inflation cutting into the crazy profits - Gazprom's financials were pretty disappointing last quarter - so that theory may get tested over the next year or so)

i just lost my job :D

wait i mean http://www.best-of-web.com/_images/080509-131410-727007.jpg

:O

btw did you guys see the bit about how 10% of china's GDP is in Fannie/Freddie bonds? scary foreign policy angle

ha we'll curb the yellow menace yet

(I assume most everybody on these threads reads barry ritholtz on the regular, which may be false)

yes, it's false - what's the link pls

http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/12/too-chinese-and-russian-to-fail/

lol I did not see this was from CFR

Solution: stop wasting your money on the Internet and high-tech. Apparently.

wow that guy is dumb

But it's Larry Magid!

(Whoever he is.)

am i totally amateurishly zmag wrong about this or what

this is my new .sig file

Deej, what kind of job did you lose?

ps that sucks

deej sorry u lost yr job man!

i was working at a company that gets contracted to write learning materials for other companies

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz but it paid the bills

btw if anyone wants to know how to sell insurance im your man
it basically involves scaring the customer into spending more

sorry to hear the news, deej :-(

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz but it paid the bills

-- deej, Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:54 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

I feel you on that - you're describing the job I did for the last four years and it's still hard for me to leave it to go back to school.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/17/news/companies/merrill_lynch/index.htm?postversion=2008071716

frack

I'm glad I keep all my krugerands in a safe under the bed

Bu-bye Citibanc!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/08/01/t1home.unemplt.02.fri.gi.jpg

William Greider offers a provocative history of how we got into this mess, with plenty of blame to go around for Democrats and Republicans:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080818/greider

<a href=http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/01/news/economy/jobs_july/index.htm?cnn=yes>;Working Men are Pissed! The Non-Working ones, too, actually.</a>