The Byrds: Classic Or Dud

anybody read that 33 1/3 book on Notorious ??

That book is frustrating but has some good parts.

"Jamaica Say You Will", Clarence White on vocals. Immaculate.

White did a version where he sang lead? what's that on?

But what group ever did a better two-minute song than "So You Want to Be a Rock 'n' Roll Star"? the Box Tops?

Lots, Edd, Jesus!! Like at least two hundred garage bands from the same period. And every British Invasion group!

By the way, I got the "Eight Miles High" 45 the other day with the other version of "Why" on the flipside, which is rocking!

"Goin' Back" rules!

By the way, I got the "Eight Miles High" 45 the other day with the other version of "Why" on the flipside, which is rocking!

Indeed. It blows away the LP version.

That version is on the expanded CD of Fifth Dimension. It's great but I think I'm partial to the LP version.

BOTH ARE NICE

i'm spinning both back to back, and damn, it's closer than I remember. I like the slower groove and raw vibe of the single. But the LP version has fuzz, static, and raga guitar that totally soar.

I read Menck's NBB book album last month. It's frankly kinda clumsily written, although to be fair it's likely more poorly edited (error on the very first page!) But as a tight primer of the whole Byrds backstory, it's valuable -- despite being one of my favorite bands, I'd never really read a history. And there are nice little insights along the way that keep you reading.

I don't hear any friggin "shoegaze" on NBB tho, sorry. One of the great albums ever, absolutely. Reading the book made me relisten to their catalog from start to finish -- the same way I discovered it when those CD reissues came out in the late 90s -- and they blew my mind all over again.

They were a band I'd never really explored and when those reissues first came out, I very deliberately picked them up in chrological order, a new one every six months or so, almost trying to replicate the experience of the original records, anticipating each new release and so on. lots of fun! But the greatest surprise was NBB, which I came to with no expectations -- all I knew was that it was the first one in line that had no recognizable songs that I knew from the radio. And also that the cover seemed sort of dull and generic. Nothing against horses mind you -- I'm a big fan! I think it was the font. one of the best albums ever, obv., same with 'Sweetheart.' It was 'Dr. Byrds' that was a bummer, not that it was BAD, it just really did not reach the heights anymore. It felt like something died at that point.

dr. byrds is very strange, but really not that bad. i like the way john york's voice sounds in harmony with mcguinn, too bad he didn't stick around (esp. considering the crap skip battin was responsible for after he replaced york)

I guess I hate the way it opens with that ponderous annoying version of "Wheel's On Fire", and, like, it's the end of the string of six breathtaking albums in a row. It just always scans as a little sad to me, for those reasons. Not that I don't get up and smiley for "Old Blue" or whatever, but the album really represented the end of something amazing.

Coincidentally enough I'm spinning the first McGuinn solo album, which I just got yesterday, right now. Byrds reunion on the second track! I had no idea. Nice little cut (Charles Lloyd in tow as well.) and "Time Cube" is kinda a "Space Odyssey" reprise (just ROger & moog). but oof, these lyrics -- who the heck was Jacques Levy, am I supposed to know who he was? the name sounds way familiar.

also that ridiculous filler medley at the end of Dr. -- really depressing

yeah the last track sux but that was a byrd tradition. i like this wheel's on fire but apparently clarence white hated that version, his preferred take showed up on the reissue. bob johnston did a very poor job on that record, they SOOOOOOOO missed gary usher at that point

Lots, Edd, Jesus!! Like at least two hundred garage bands from the same period. And every British Invasion group!

see, I don't subscribe to this ethic. garage bands are overrated, and not as good as the Byrds. every British Invasion group? Like the Tremeloes or the Marmalade or what? you mean the Sonics or who? the point is, the Byrds' "So You Want to Be" is a comment on the whole fucking thing, by people who had thought about it for more than ten minutes, which the aforementioned "garage bands" had not, that's why they were just some garage band and not the Byrds. and yeah, Michael Clarke belonged in a garage band but ended up in the Byrds--a tribute to their conceptualism. sometimes thinking helps, even in rock 'n' roll, Tim.

edd wins

Stormy, you prob know Jacques Levy as the guy who wrote the lyrics on 'Desire' by Bob Dylan.

I've not (yet) read the Menck volume, but wld like to put in a gd word for "Timeless Flight" by Johnny Rogan (esp. the massive expanded version.) Rogan isn't a great stylist/thinker, but his research is awesome and over twenty years he pretty much spoke to every one of the major Byrds players - an essential companion to the recs

i love 'so you want to be a rock'n'roll star' - hugh masakela = the masterstroke = but it has to be one of the v. earliest examples of pure unadulterated rockist disdain for 'manufactured' pop (and just a little bit rich coming from the Byrds, who after all mostly didn't play on their first hit single and cld be said to be sort've a Jim Dickinson supergroup)

I can't say enough about "Eight Miles High" - how unthinkable was it for a '66 single to have THREE extnded guitar breaks, each one extending out from that 4-note "India" head and yet really sounding more chatotic than the previous one - sounding like no previous solo on any single I've ever heard, certinaly not any played on electric 12-string, aside from maybe Townshend in "I Cant Explain". Even the fact that McGuinn actually played at a slower speed and sped it up to make it shimmer a bit more is worth noting. An incredible recording. I know the hipsters prefer the original, and I like that one a lot too, but it's the single version that stays with me. I suspect that someone other than Michael Clarke played on that classic take.

As for the "shoegaze" question, I remember somebody-or-other claimed that My Bloody Valentine were continuing in a continuum that extended from the Byrds through to Sonic Youth, or the equivalent. That from one of the clippings reproduced in their '88 Feed Me With Your Kiss sampler. And certainly Byrds and showgazers alique were both fond of guitars that jingle-jangle-jingle.

Edd otm re: Gene Clark with the Gosdin Brothers. "Elevator Operator" is the best Revolver outtake ever.

showgazers alique

WTF?! Dunno where that came from...If that was some arcane joke, it hasn't aged well, or at all.

who the heck was Jacques Levy, am I supposed to know who he was? the name sounds way familiar.

-- Stormy Davis,

Co-writer of most of Dylan's Desire.

you don't miss your water till your well runs dry

I think the Byrds are only alright. Some very good songs, but a lot of duffers, and I can only take so much of that nicey vocal harmony stuff.

die

The production on "You Don't Mis Your Water" is really quite trippy -- the way that the vocals bleed across the front of the sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9cINH9yob4

some tasty licks there...and some sweet beards

I never quite understood what he intended to do with the horse once he caught it.

feel like someone on ILM recommended it on another Byrds thread, but that Live At Royal Albert Hall thing that came out a few years back is incredible. Better than Untitled!

i agree, tyler.

when he caught the horse they were gonna be friends for live, obv.

life*

just like a wife ... hmmm.

haven't heard this but hey: http://martiansboots.blogspot.com/2009/11/byrds-at-fillmore-west-jan-4-1970.html

Is there like a career-spanning Clarence White comp? Would buy.

Don't know of a comp but do you keep up with the blog Adios Lounge? He's been doing a pretty exhaustive recap of White's career, full of audio and video. He writes these posts off and on so search by category at his site, then start at the oldest one and go forward.

http://www.adioslounge.com/search/label/Clarence%20White

!!!
Nice, exactly what I had in mind.

What's with the floating German ghost lady?

if john york had stuck around for the last few records things would have been much improved. his voice blended really well with mcguinn and battin's kim fowley co-writes are mostly dud. also, you can tell from some of the live recordings from the york era that he gave them more of a hard edge. battin was serviceable but more of a mellow jam sort of guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmcks4WU6K8

Fifth Dimension sounds like the best album ever tonight; even "Captain Soul"! "I Come And Stand At Every Door" is spectral doom: "I need no fruit, I need no rice / I need no sweets nor even bread". Almost every song has an undercurrent of immanent disaster; and they weren't wrong, just two years early.

Clarence White was just ridiculous.

listening to Untitled for the first time ever...live half didn't do much for me (the "Eight Miles High" was kinda ridiculous) but the studio side is very nice, intricate folk rock; the guitar parts (bass included) are interesting, and the vocals are suitably restrained.

Also, having relistened to the entire Byrds oeuvre through Untitled so far in the last day or so, I'll point out the obvious: these guys covered Dylan a lot. There's an interview on one of the reissues, Notorious or Sweetheart maybe, where McGuinn says that they're kinda over covering Dylan, because they've found their own songwriting voice...but then Dr. Byrds has two Dylan songs (and a third if you count bonus tracks).

i know it's one of their Official Classix and everything, but i think turn! turn! turn! (the song) is their best moment.

It's unfortunate that the song has been sort of ruined (for me) by 60s montages on TV.

yeah, it is definitely one of those songs that has passed into the realm of cliche. but if you can turn all that off, it is pretty gorgeous, isn't it?

It's a great song. I like it enough that seeing Papa M do an instrumental cover in concert was kind of thrilling tbh.
It was probably my first favorite Byrds song.

"Turn! Turn! Turn!" and "Mr. Tambourine Man" are two of the most overplayed songs ever that I don't switch off when they come on the radio. I could list 10 Byrds songs I love more, but neither one is dead for me yet.

listening to John Reilly and What's Happening?! today, hazy summer bliss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoSwOrytf_M