i don't understand, but this is normal when it comes to baking bread. there seems to be no standard(s) and a stupefying multitude of variations in just about every aspect of the process.
this is exactly what i hate about it. i could never figure out how to just make bread.
― harbl, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 20:18 (ten years ago) link
i want to make something like trader joe's 6 grain w/ pumpkin seeds but can't find a recipe. i'd probably screw it up anyway!
why the dry milk?
In that italian bread recipe, it calls for 1/2 c dry milk and 2 c of water - that is basically double-strength milk, so adds considerable protein (and the changes it brings to texture) not diluted to the same strength as regular liquid milk (1/2 c dry milk to 4 c water). Dry milk powder is also a humectant, so would help delay the bread getting stale.
btw, I only use dry milk any more. I get the Bob's Red Mill low-temp version that has to be whizzed up in the blender. We mix it up a quart at a time for daily drinking (w/ a spoonful of added cream to make it whole milk), but for baking I generally mix the powder in with the other dry ingredients, then add water when it says to add milk.
― Jaq, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 20:28 (ten years ago) link
double strength milk . . . ok.
bbut jaq, you really drink that instead of real milk? i guess it's prolly cheaper right? i dunno maybe i have a false sense of milk. never been a huge fan, just pretty much keep it around so my gurl can eat cerealz and we put it in our coffee.
thanks for the tip tho.
― Don't hag me with your false green. (jdchurchill), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 22:59 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, we drink it - I was very surprised how good it is, but it's definitely because I use the low temperature process "non-instant" type. The normal "instant" kind, that you can just stir into water and it dissolves, tastes vile because it's run through a high temperature process that cooks it. The keys are using the low temp sort, adding some heavy cream to it, and letting it sit in the fridge overnight before drinking it straight. I use it on cereal and in tea and coffee too.
I started buying dry milk in order to make cheese and yoghurt - it's 1/4 the cost of liquid organic milk, and doesn't take up any space. It's great to be able to mix up a small batch, to not worry about running out of milk, or find out at the last minute that the carton has gone off.
― Jaq, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 23:17 (ten years ago) link
First loaf I've baked in over a year due to moving, hot weather, general not-baking-moodiness:http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/3943412968_f59afb832e.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/3942640175_d26da40340.jpg
― Jaq, Tuesday, 22 September 2009 02:20 (ten years ago) link
looks good jaq, what do you utilize when slashing the tops? and when do you do it? i can never get that damn technique to work.
― Don't hag me with your false green. (jdchurchill), Tuesday, 22 September 2009 22:40 (ten years ago) link
I've got a 12" slicing knife I generally keep a really sharp edge on. I slash the top right before the dough goes in the oven, so after it's risen about an inch over the top of the pan when I do a sandwich/toast loaf like this one.
― Jaq, Wednesday, 23 September 2009 00:00 (ten years ago) link
bets: would this turn out really gross?http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/cgi/recipeget.cgi?id=735
― tehresa, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 16:53 (ten years ago) link
Might be okay right out of the oven, but hard as a rock and nasty later.
― Jaq, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 17:25 (ten years ago) link
so jaq (sorry i am so late response time) that's like a serrated knife then?
― let the glory boy mr. henry have it on rye (jdchurchill), Thursday, 15 October 2009 23:32 (ten years ago) link
nope, just a standard blade, like this.
― Jaq, Friday, 16 October 2009 00:05 (ten years ago) link
so for my own curiosity what is the advantage of using that knife over say a regular chef knife?
― let the glory boy mr. henry have it on rye (jdchurchill), Friday, 16 October 2009 00:44 (ten years ago) link
Probably the fact that it's 4" longer, so the way the blade contacts the top of the loaf is different. It's also a knife I use less, so the edge stays truer/sharper. There are these special bread dough slashing tools called lames, but I'm not much for single-purpose utensils personally.
― Jaq, Friday, 16 October 2009 01:53 (ten years ago) link
I needed to clear out a cupboard and found some very old baking ingredients - yeast, milk powder, sugar, flour, but unfortunately no butter or even oil or any kind of fats - so I chucked them in the long languishing bread machine anyway to see what will happen...
What will happen if you try to bake bread that should have fats in it, without any whatsoever? Your predictions please. Results in five hours.
I'm ready for, even certain of, failure, but am interested to see what the hell does come out.
― krakow, Thursday, 26 November 2009 10:03 (ten years ago) link
probably will be better than leaving out the water, as a friend did once.
― George Mucus (ledge), Thursday, 26 November 2009 10:16 (ten years ago) link
I'll eat pretty much anything, so it shouldn't go to waste whatever happens.
― krakow, Thursday, 26 November 2009 10:17 (ten years ago) link
it'll be bread of some sort. also the milk powder should help.
― tomofthenest, Thursday, 26 November 2009 10:39 (ten years ago) link
well ... ?
― George Mucus (ledge), Thursday, 26 November 2009 16:29 (ten years ago) link
It look ok-ish. Kind of like a loaf of bread, albeit a wee balled-up one.
Going to crack it tonight and see what the inner verdict is. Not a complete disaster at least. The age of the ingredients is probably more to do with it, particularly the yeast meaning it didn't really rise, rather than the lack of a wee touch of butter.
Eating verdict later.
― krakow, Thursday, 26 November 2009 17:24 (ten years ago) link
when I first started baking bread I sorta jumped ahead of myself and tried to make Broa, the Portugese corn-meal-and-flour bread - my attempt back then didn't really turn out so great, so I haven't tried it since. But that was ten years ago, and I've been cooking and baking constantly since then, so I tried it again last night, using a recipe in the Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes A Day book (which, I don't even know what the book is really about since at this point when I get a cookbook I generally just go straight to the recipes & I know enough about the making-your-oven-a-steam-oven stuff from all the Bittman business last year). Anyway.
It is incredibly delicious.
― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Saturday, 12 December 2009 22:37 (ten years ago) link
never heard of it. love cornmeal though.
do you think you can fit baking bread into a normal weekday schedule (i.e. not having to check on it every few hours)?
― Maria, Sunday, 13 December 2009 14:02 (ten years ago) link
maria i usually make bread on saturdays or sundays, that way i don't have to stay up late. checking it is essential at certain points, but how long between those points is generally very flexible.
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 23:45 (ten years ago) link
dudes it's ciabatta time. i have been reading bread by hammelman. look out world.
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Sunday, 3 January 2010 17:35 (ten years ago) link
holy cow ciabatta is good, dudesmost perfect sandwich bread to me right now
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Monday, 4 January 2010 21:13 (ten years ago) link
i have never made bread with holes in the crumb (except pitta bread which doesn't count)! what is the secret to this amazing trick?
― lords of hyrule (c sharp major), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:03 (ten years ago) link
Not sure -- I just follow the Italian bread recipe linked above and shazam, there are the holes. I followed a recipe for "white sandwich bread" -- no holes, smooth wonderbread texture, a good bit heavier though. Maybe it's the preferment to kickstart the fermentation -- the holey bread uses it and the white bread doesn't.
― America's Next Most Disabled Ballerina (WmC), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:10 (ten years ago) link
i followed recipe/process from bread by hamelman. it used a biga (stiff preferment) and i think the secret is to handle the dough as little and as gently as possible, as it is very wet. like 70% water, dudes. and hamelman does this thing during fermentation (what most people think of as rising) where you fold the dough instead of merely punching it down. then after 3 hours of fermentation, you cut the dough into appropriately sized pieces and let em proof again and bake it. no kneading, no shaping. in fact i have plowed through hamelman's book without once seeing the word knead anywhere. needless to say i was surprised by the lack of mentioning kneading as i had thought it was a central skill of baking bread.
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:42 (ten years ago) link
I know enough about the making-your-oven-a-steam-oven stuff from all the Bittman business last year). Anyway.
― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Saturday, December 12, 2009 4:37 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark
dude what technique(s) do you utilize for steam production john? or can you link to the "bittman business last year" you refer to above?
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Monday, 4 January 2010 22:45 (ten years ago) link
I have only recently learned the word is "proof" – when I worked at a donut shop, everyone talked about letting the dough "perf."
― girl moves (Abbott), Monday, 4 January 2010 23:07 (ten years ago) link
The owner told me "to let the dough perf 'til it feels like a fat lady's ass."
― girl moves (Abbott), Monday, 4 January 2010 23:08 (ten years ago) link
proof=rising=fermentationlol about fat ladies asses
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Monday, 4 January 2010 23:13 (ten years ago) link
haha yeah that's amazing!
― Maria, Tuesday, 5 January 2010 14:39 (ten years ago) link
It was not maybe the most useful advice in a lot of ways, the main one being I'd never had my hands on a fat anyone's ass. So I'd poke at the dough intermittently and every time my mind would ask, 'Ass? Ass?'
― girl moves (Abbott), Tuesday, 5 January 2010 16:56 (ten years ago) link
that made me lol at work and my coworker asked what i was laughing at
― figgy pudding (La Lechera), Tuesday, 5 January 2010 16:58 (ten years ago) link
hahaha. if you poke a fat lady's ass does the hole stay there for a few seconds?
― jortin shartgent (harbl), Tuesday, 5 January 2010 16:59 (ten years ago) link
"every time my mind would ask, 'Ass? Ass?'"lolmine too!
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Tuesday, 5 January 2010 20:07 (ten years ago) link
I swear, sometimes dealine with a batch of dough on the board is like being confronted by a four-pound booger.
― wanna be shartin' somethin' (WmC), Friday, 8 January 2010 19:35 (ten years ago) link
turn that booger into a fat lady's ass!
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Friday, 8 January 2010 21:52 (ten years ago) link
wow 2nd attempt at ciabatta is doper than the first. got much better steam with a bunch of rocks in the pan i was throwing the water in, and noticeable increase in oven spring.
― Meteor Crater (jdchurchill), Monday, 11 January 2010 22:18 (ten years ago) link
hey guys i want to make a sourdough culture. has anybody done this before? i did a ctrl f on this thread to find 'sourdough' but it seems nobody specifically spells out how to make one of these . . .i found this and they suggest freshly milled flour. i have whole wheat flour, but i put it in the freezer and i don't know if that fucks up the yeasts that are supposed to be on the grains or what. i have read what hamelman wrote about it in his book but he uses whole rye and rye flours which i don't have. also i have tried just using flour and water left open at rm tmp for a while and that made something that took forever to proof. lemme know yr experience plz
― i should rectify that (jdchurchill), Tuesday, 19 January 2010 21:46 (ten years ago) link
I successfully made starter using wine grapes (yeasts live happily on the skins), but it wasn't especially sour. I keep yeast in the freezer, so would suspect that having your flour in there wouldn't do it any harm.
There's another bread thread in here somewhere, maybe that has more info.
― Jaq, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 21:51 (ten years ago) link
Here is the other bread thread: The bread thread!
― Jaq, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 21:54 (ten years ago) link
i dunno nobody specifies they process of creating a sourdough culture from scratch on that thread as far as i can see from a scan, i am sure i will figure something out tho. and bet yr bread crust i will post what i did
― i should rectify that (jdchurchill), Tuesday, 19 January 2010 21:59 (ten years ago) link
No, just Casuistry, Matt, and me but none posted details. Jeffrey Steingarten has an essay about how he did it with wild yeasts - lots of failures.
― Jaq, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 22:00 (ten years ago) link
ive never made it but in the st john book they have a recipe, he uses rhubarb for the starter
― just sayin, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 11:39 (ten years ago) link
ok dudes i took a scant cup of (KAF) whole wheat flour and a half cup of water and mixed it up in a mason jar. i am following rose levy beranbaum's 'the bread bible' process which says that this mixture should sit for 48 hours at 65 deg-F, which my studio in the back room of my flat which we don't heat is around that temp. I wonder why it has to be so cool . . . apparently the culture will not do much until day 5
― thatwillultimatelyresultingalaxy-galaxymergersonacosmictimescale (jdchurchill), Monday, 25 January 2010 23:23 (ten years ago) link
last night i grabbed the mason jar with the "sourdough culture" in it and was happy to see bubbles and expansion. i did as rose levy beranbaum instructs and removed about half of it to the rubbish bin, then dumped in a scant 1/2 cup of regular unbleached flour and 1/4 cup of water, and stirred it in. this morning it had already doubled in volume. I guess this is working . . .
― thatwillultimatelyresultingalaxy-galaxymergersonacosmictimescale (jdchurchill), Wednesday, 27 January 2010 23:56 (ten years ago) link
Exciting! Does it smell yeasty? does it taste sour but not bitter?
― Jaq, Thursday, 28 January 2010 00:12 (ten years ago) link
i don't know jaq it kinda smelled like wheat mixed with cedar or something last night. and this morning i did not have the expansion that occurred the previous day. also yesterday when i fed it, there was a bit of water that had come out of the solution just sitting in the bottom, which i didn't think too much about and mixed back in. but this morning there was a bit of water just sitting on top. however it smelled nicely sour as i would imagine sourdough starter is *supposed* to smell.
― thatwillultimatelyresultingalaxy-galaxymergersonacosmictimescale (jdchurchill), Thursday, 28 January 2010 20:32 (ten years ago) link