Beer in the new era

Last night I drank a Widmeyer Hefeweizen, which I found meh, and a Maresdous 8, which was very tasty in the tradition of tasty Belgian strong ales. A bit on the sweeter side of what I like but not over the line.

Oh, I'll keep an eye out for that. I've been meaning to start exploring Belgian beers. I was putting it off till I'd tried every English stout but I should probably start sooner.

It's almost summer! Time to put the stouts away!

Oh yeah, I had something called Sunset Wheat the other night which tasted like orange and was surprisingly good considering that fact.

nooooooooooooooooo!!!

(I'm assuming you're talking about Leinenkugel's Sunset Wheat, which I declared a vendetta against because it is the single least-pleasant beer I have ever had)

When I was in Belgium last week I totally was rocking all the kriek. But not the Hoegaarden (because that's utterly disgusting). I also had a Trappist (Chimay Bleu) which was pretty intense at 9% ABV

sundar iirc you are in OTT or MTL? where are you getting these amazing beers from in whichever of those two cities you're in?

if you are from neither of those places i apologize, i just remember you saying it once or something. i may be making it up.

I'm from Ottawa (and lived in Mtl 2001-2002) but I've been living in Buffalo NY for almost 2 years now.

When I was in Belgium last week I totally was rocking all the kriek. But not the Hoegaarden (because that's utterly disgusting). I also had a Trappist (Chimay Bleu) which was pretty intense at 9% ABV

Where exactly?

BTW if near West Flanders: Should have tried the Brugse Zot!

(I would imagine that at least Mtl should have good places for this? I couldn't help you though. I drank Colt 45 from the dep when I lived there. Ah, callow youth.)

To be fair, I haven't really looked past my local deps, but the few bars I've found that have bigger selections were pretty disappointing... one place that was recommended highly as a place with a bunch of beers had that greek beer whose name I forget as the rarest one. mythos?

i'll have to check ch0whound or something.

Let me know if you find (or have had) Dieu du Ciel Aphrodisiaque. The ratebeer.com folks rank it as the best sweet stout on earth but I haven't found any around here.

yes. mythos. it's not bad!

I think I am going to drop by Dieu du Ciel tonight, actually. Everything they have is actually to a pretty high standard... the reason you probably haven't found it is because they aren't actually bottling any of their brews yet. Apparently they're opening another brewery north of the city though, and they're going to start bottling there! I can't remember where I heard that. I read it today after doing a bit of ch0whound research. I will see if I can talk to the owners or something tonight (I'm going early so hopefully the place will be near empty, I'm not much of one for the crowd there). I've not had the aphrodisiaque, don't know if it's "in season" (they only brew most things a couple times a year), but if they have it I'll give you a review!

Where exactly?

Brussels. and Paris, but that's obviously not in Belgium. May I also suggest that if you do go to France and decide to try the local brews, Kronenbourg tastes like piss. stay away.

I've developed a fondness for Zywiec lately - I don't even usually like lagers much but it's so smooth and tasty. Perfect warm weather beer.

it is. and that red-temperature indicator on the back is key!

König Ludwig Weissbier is majorly tasty, if a bit pricey.

I recently tried this weird Belgian beer, "La Chouffe." Unpasteurized, 8% and quite good. (Although the floaty yeast cultures were somewhat of a turn-off)

Oh yeah, I've had La Chouffe - very nice. There are so many good belgian beers it's amazing.

I just remembered I have a beer question:

In Mexico I tried Bohemia (regular, not dark) and it was fantastic - at the moment I thought it was one of the best beers I'd ever tried.

Recently I tried some Bohemia in a U.S. Mexican place and it was meh. Is it possible I was getting a different "export" version, or that the transit did something to the beer?

Man...I have had so much "skunky" imported beer, could that be it?

On a related note, what do you do when your beer is obviously off and you've already drank a couple? Can you take the rest back to the store.?

;)

Oh yeah, I went back to Dieu, but no Aphro... was available. I didn't get a chance to ask when/if it was coming back... next time! Maybe I'll go tonight, I would like to dig into my new book and my house smells like cat piss and I am not currently poor.

Oh man! I didn't see that you guys were talking about Biere D'Achouffe. I thought it was a Quebecois beer for so long! True story. Apparently the first place they started exporting to was Quebec! It is very delicious. I don't remember finding any little floaters, though...

Response from Dieu du Ciel to two questions I asked via e-mail:

Hello Will,

Thanks you for your comments. It is much appreciated.

1-) We brew the Aphrodisiaque only 2 or 3 times a year. The next batch
will probably be avaible something like next september.

2-) Yes, it's true, we are in the process of building up a bottling
plant in St-Jérôme. There will also be a pub there. We hope to be able
to sell our first bottles at the end of July.

Cheers!
[dude's name removed by me]

currently - harviestoun Butter and Twisted is amazinhg, but we've just come back from North East France (ie very near the Belgian border and lots of Flemish beer-making tradition) and have been loving L'angelus which is beer's swankiest bottle I fear, gold foil and everything. Also Maredsous, Amadeus (lemon flavoured, should be wrong but oh so right) and god's own beer - Orval.

erm that's bitter and twisted of course

When alcohol content is shown on U.S. beer, it is often labelled by weight. Since alcohol is lighter than water, this can leave the mistaken impression that U.S. beer has much less alcohol, on average, than Canadian beer. A 3.2% beer in the U.S. (by weight) would be equivalent to a 4% beer in Canada (by volume).

Wikipedia I LOVE YOU. Did anyone know this? It boggles the mind! WHY?!

let's have a sesh

link?

my girl friend brought me a 6 pack of Hitachino Nest White Ale. Pretty good stuff. nice floral aromas ,perfect for a hot summer day. i think it's kind of pricey though

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/409121525_01915ec7ca.jpg

link, sorry: Canadian Beer

Apparently they have Aphrodisiaque in now. And I'm destitute poor and going away for the weekend! NOOOOO!

Recommend some beer. Not too heavy, not too wheaty, crisp and refreshing in the style of Tsing Tsao or similar.

Also recommend some beers like Paulaner or the white Kronenberg with the fruity taste whose name escapes me.

I am in the mood for trying different beers.

Dude, Zywiec

(re: light, crisp, refreshing, not wheaty)

I was at the nashville beer fest and the best thing there was a homebrewed bock that they ran out of by my second go-round. After a while though all you care about is that the beer is cold, because it's nearly august, and you're outdoors in nashville.

I think I might have talked my dad into getting a 30-gallon kit from Boot Lager. (ha ha, "boot lager")

I also finally made myself a michelada with a little kosher salt on top of a can of tecate with a lime in it. not half bad, if you don't mind a bit of foamy foam foam.

Sundar, have you tried Flying Bison? I can't quite remember which bars serve it (I think the Ulrich's, but they have closed, I think). I miss it dearly.

I swore by Aviator Red (which you can get at Wegman's) for a while. I still think it's good but have gone off it a bit. Are there other good FB beers?

I wanted to make it to Dieu du Ciel when I visited Mtl earlier in the month but couldn't make it. Drank a lot of St-Ambroise (and some nice micro wheats) instead.

They have seasonal beers (which I can remember the name of), that friends would bring me in growlers. I never managed to locate the brewery, which apparently is on the West Side (on Niagara, maybe?). Anyway, I remember enjoying the summer and winter ales quite a bit.

Available in Wegmans!? Ahh! This was not so when I lived there! I love you, Wegmans!

"Dude, Zywiec"

One of the benefits of my area of London filling up with large numbers of young eastern Europeans is the availablity in the cornershops of excellent Polish beers at ridiculously cheap prices.

Zywiec is one of the better ones, at about £1 a bottle. The dark lagers especailly are a revelation.

Ronan WTF?? This is truly a new era for you!

Saku from Estonia is pretty good

Saku or Saku Kuld, anyway. The dark variety has that soy saucey aftertaste I can't get with.

Ronan WTF?? This is truly a new era for you!

is this a joke? heh...I don't get it if so. is it that unusual that I ask about trying new beers?

I had a Saku Porter that had a weird aftertaste, that was probably the same one.

Wheats: Last night I was drinking Sprecher Hefe Weiss, which was all right.
Non-Wheats: Last night I was also drinking New Holland Mad Hatter, which was goddamn awesome.

I guess I am in the dark :/ I thought you were still teetotalling because of your stuffed-upedness-in-the-cabesa.

I was wondering if Tracer was assuming Ronan only drank Irish beers or something.

Zywiec is indeed a fine beer. love that red temperature indicator on the back too.

The dude who runs the Polish Sausage and Liquor emporium near my place warned my friends and I of the strength of Polish beer when we were there picking up samples of each variety. Then he gave us kielbasa with whole garlic cloves stuffed inside.

Zywiec in hand and Kielbasa on the grill = heaven

i want beer now!

i want kielbasa!

lets have a bar-b-q guys!

Recommend some beer. Not too heavy, not too wheaty, crisp and refreshing in the style of Tsing Tsao or similar.

This is kind of a lame answer; it's not a microbrew or particularly exotic...but as a pretty beer-snobby person, I have to say that Beck's is a really nice beer in that sense, especially considering its ubiquity and inexpensiveness. It's tastier than Heineken, at any rate. Also the Reinheitsgebot (I would say "German purity law", but that sounds a bit, er, y'know...) means that you are drinking barley, hops, yeast and water; not rice and corn or other shitty American craplager filler.

In general, and as far as the second part of your question goes, (the Paulaner, etc.) I would go to a pub with a deep selection, or else to a shop with great beer choices, and basically sample whatever German beers you have never heard of...there are so many amazing ones (off the top of my head, I'd unreservedly recommend anything from Weihenstephan,
Franziskaner, Hofbrau Munchen, Schneider Weisse). There are much "crazier" Belgians, American microbrews, and so forth...but it sounds like you are looking for crisp lagers, pilseners, and wheat beers...in which case I'd point ya towards the German stuff. (as well as the Eastern European recommendations that people have mentioned above)

Did you ever try the house Hefeweizen at the Pearl St Brewery, Molly? It's really wonderful, with a peculiar but very nice strong banana flavour.

I've been enjoying Franziskaner's brown ale and Spaten's Hefeweizen as well.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1344/965723386_5fb67caad2_o.jpg

Another vote for Zywiec! Polish beer generally seems to be on a level with German or Czech, but for less than half the price here in the UK.

Truth: I really dislike Hefeweizen. I do not like fruit in my beer, as a rule. I do, however, strongly approve of their Trainwreck, which is really dark and sturdy. (NB when I used to work across the street from Pearl Street, that was my choice of locations for the liquid lunch). Also, we're having the wedding reception there in a year! Microbrews all around!

i like okocim too tho it's a little more low-rent.

Some beers I've sampled lately:

Blue Moon - I found this to be not bad at all for a domestic version of "white beer" (in the style of Hoegaarden). It was a hot, humid New Jersey summer day, and a cold pint of this with a wedge of lime on top hit the spot in so many ways.

Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA - This is a nice, smooth, well-rounded IPA. I would consider this as an alternative to my usual standby, Sierra Nevada - though the flavor seemed a bit less intensely floral than the SN - almost a little too well-behaved.

Spaten Lager - This is a good straightforward German lager, in the style of Becks or Lowenbrau. Perhaps a bit more dignified and balanced than those two (esp. Lowenbrau, which can be a bit inconsistent). Goes well with subtler-flavored food, since it doesn't overpower it the way stronger ales and American-style lagers (like Brooklyn or Sam Adams) can.

and a cold pint of this with a wedge of lime on top

waht

Actually now that I think about it, it was probably an orange slice.

prob'ly

Another vote for Zywiec! Polish beer generally seems to be on a level with German or Czech, but for less than half the price here in the UK.

^^yesss.

I've found them cheap in Aus too. It's good stuff.

unofficial poll.

favorite ice beer:

natty ice
beast ice
bud ice
miller ice
ice house
ice house xtra cold
ice house dry

you forgot labatt ice.

i think there's a molson ice too

I've enjoyed all the house brews at Pearl St, esp the oatmeal stout.

Yeah, I was gonna say, Blue Moon is served with an orange slice. Your post made me wonder what it'd be like with a lime, though. I'm not usually a fan of orange slices on white ales or lemon slices on Hefeweizens, but I do like limes in Mexican beers.

blue moon is made by coors

tylski is the polish beer to buy.

blue moon is made by coors

True. One reason I don't drink it anymore. (The other being that I've found Belgian-style whites that I like better, including Hoegaarden and even Sam Adams White.)

Hey, just as a public service announcement, if you ever consider ordering a Summit Scandia? Don't.

Yeah, I was gonna say, Blue Moon is served with an orange slice. Your post made me wonder what it'd be like with a lime, though

I was typing too quickly without thinking - but yes, it was an orange slice. I think the orange would probably go a bit better with a white beer than lime, because the sweetness of the orange would balance the tartness of the beer a bit. I just found out about Blue Moon being made by Coors recently - but I don't think that would affect my decision to buy it either way.

I had something called Innis & Gunn last weekend, and it was really, really good.

Is there a boycott against Coors or something?

just saying, if you want real craft brewers to get more shelf and tap space, you may want to refrain from supporting the same old megabreweries as they jump from one seasonally popular style of import/craft beer to the next (this summer I have had to stop myself from buying Beach Bum Ale, made by anheuser busch)

the large breweries rarely know how to make a good seasonal brew anyway
http://z.about.com/d/beer/1/0/e/2/-/-/ABCask.JPG

(YUK)

I just tried La Caracole Artisanal Belgian Amber Ale. Holy shit.

Wonderful, sweet, spicy, yeasty rotting apple cider-like quality. My description isn't even doing justice to it.

Is there a boycott against Coors or something?

Yes.

I want some updates on what you all are drinking.

I recently discovered Laurier Depanneur, aka "Paradis de la Biere," which carries a staggering number of Quebecois microbrews in bottles, but so far the 3 or 4 I've tried have been pretty dud (but I am realizing that the older I get, the less I am liking new and exciting beers and the more I keep just falling back on the same old shit, so take that for what it's worth).

Did I ever mention Innis & Gunn here? I liked that a lot, I remember. Also, had some of that Zwyiec (sp?) people were talking about, it was nice.

Rogue Brutal Bitter: Not all that brutal, or even all that bitter, but very good. A more amber-ish pale ale perhaps?

I had some Anchor Porter last night, and it was good.

I wish I liked Belgians more, b/c Lucky Baldwin's in Pasadena (and Sierra Madre) has the best selection I've ever heard of. Seriously impressive.

As to the TOMBOT michelada: I have on good authority from my Northern Mexican friends (East LA born and raised) that what is called a michelada can vary, even from neighborhood to neigborhood. The only static elements are beer, ice, citrus and some sort of salt flavor, be it hot sauce (vinegar is a big part of most) or kosher salt.

MY current favorite version of the michelada - beer, ice, Clamato, Tapatio, and Worchestershire sauce. Amazing.

Oh, and lime, of course.

I'm all about the de zenne brewery right now, beautiful (although very hoppy) beers and amazing labels too:

http://www.brasseriedelasenne.be/images/zinnebir.jpg

http://www.brasseriedelasenne.be/images/tarasboulba.jpg

let's try that again:

http://www.brasseriedelasenne.be/images/zinnebir.jpg

http://www.brasseriedelasenne.be/images/tarasboulba.jpg

I am beginning to love the nation of Belgium. I just had Duchesse de Bourgogne reddish-brown Flemish ale. Wonderful woody sick-sweet rotting ciderness. I've also started trying the Norwegian Olfabrikken porter, which the ratebeer.com folks rank as the best on earth. It's good but I'll need a bit more time before I know exactly where to place it. I've noticed with Scandinavian porters that you need to pour them like wine to get any real head at all?

You know, it's a bit sad: Sometimes I suspect that I take more pleasure in beer than in music these days.

Guys if you can get it drink A) BELL'S AMBER ALE or B) ST PETER'S GOLDEN ALE. The first is more affordable, both are freaking flavorload.

Dieu Du Ciel is bottling now!! I had a six-pack of Fumisterie over the course of the week, it was lovely!

Bell's Amber is certainly a wonderful drink. I had pints aplenty whenst in Michigan a month and a half ago.

Is the Dieu Du Ciel seasonal? I might have to visit Montreal soon!

Shipwreck beer?

my corner store now stocks both SAKU ORIGINAL and OB
needless to say my interest in imports from other countries is in the toilet
I will probably go have a TROEGINATOR at the bar today though

Saku is nice, real nice.

TROEGINATOR at the bar today though

TROEGNATOR IS YUM-O

Shipwreck beer sounds pretty interesting.....

Just went on some brewery tours last weekend, actually. Went to General Lafayette brewpub/inn in eastern PA, it was fantastic. The Chocolate Thunder cask porter was incredible, served at 57 degrees. Awesome.

Also went to the Victory brewery in eastern PA. Victory's been my favorite brewery lately, especially their Hop Devil and Hop Wallop, both obnoxiously hopped pale ales. Their Imperial stout is fuckin' great, too, but the weather's been too warm for stouts recently.

I was a Le Coq man in my Tallin adventure.

Currently enjoying my local Tesco, which had Sierra Nevada Summerfest until last week, when I bought their remaining stock, and big bottles of Tyskie and Zywiec.

I'm really liking Bitburger lately. store by my place sells 6 packs for
under $7.

Zywiec is damn good

I'm trying this soon...

La Neuvaine - Absinth and fennel ale, 8.5%

wooh, fennel ale. that sounds interesting.

has anybody tried any of those weird beers that Rogue offers in the 22 oz. bottles? i.e. juniper ale, the morimoto soba ales? i've been dying to try them, have never gotten around to it.

though i have tried the chipotle ale. quite interesting, it did actually have a smoky spiciness to it.

err, i should probably clarify that it's, like, <absinth and fennel> ale and not <absinth> and <fennel ale> :)

Anybody ever had the Heavyweight brews from Ocean City, NJ? Some excellent stuff

ohno like Dieu Du Ciel like down the street from me is bottling?

i searched for beer threads yesterday (b/c i am ahead of the curve obv) and decided on a nb one but pretty much the thing is that i've started not just drinking beer when out but buying it for home, entirely b/c i started working full-time and haven't figured out new yoga schedule and so beer seems like a necessary (and delicious) drug

i like zywiec too but only in poland

well, they bottle in st. jerome, but yeah, those dudes are bottling :)

My local has Stiegl 22oz drafts for $5, and I've been imbibing way too many of those of late...

Right now I am working on 12 of these things: http://boakandbailey.com/?p=228

"these things" being Boheme 1795, which seems to be a Tesco-rebadged Budvar (but not _the_ Budvar).

i liek the name.it would get drank

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4765/photo42gc8.jpg

ONE BERE. GET DOWN MY MOUTH.

Label is cheap and nasty and knuckes are hairier than I remember them being.

http://www.thatsfit.com/2007/11/04/after-a-workout-beer-is-best-not-water/

lol i am ahead of my time!

Just what America has been clamoring for (or is that clamatoing for?).

http://beeradvocate.com/im/c_beer_image.gif

Nothing goes with a beer like tomato and clam juice.

or try this.

http://agencyb.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/15/bud_clam.jpg

yeah micheladas are great. the way i learned doesn't use clam juice; just v8, a dash of salsa inglesa (worchestershire sauce) and black pepper.

So essentially a Bloody Mary with beer instead of vodka? Seems like the result of got-no-vodka desperation.

I think Sam Adams' Honey Porter is the first bad porter I've ever had. (I suppose Saranac Caramel Porter might be wanting as well.)

xp personally, i can't stand vodka but you're probably right.

Sam Adams is generally dud.

To Mark upthread, the Rogue Morimoto is quite fine, very similar to a black ale like New Belgium's 1554. I have a bro who drives forklift for them and he brings all kinds of Rogue goodness to this festival we do every summer.

Also on the airplane this monday I saw a TV thing with a BEERAMISU dessert made with Rogue Old Crustacean barley wine and tiramisu.

In the fridge now for turkey day is Starr Hill, a local Virginia brew, and some Yuengling Black & Tan. I get spoiled living in Oregon but these are both turning out to be pretty good.

labatt makes a porter that i randomly picked up on a cheap-beer night. i've not really had porters before, and i know that some garbage labatt stuff shouldn't turn me off a type of beer entirely, but CHRIST. IT WAS AWFUL. there are only about 5 beers i won't drink if they are put in front of me, and that is one of them.

I just found this, which was interesting: http://appellationbeer.com/blog/the-best-selling-us-beers-circa-2007/

(I knew about the overall top 10, thanks to the ILE poll, but the list of just craft beers is interesting. I don't think I've ever heard of Deschutes or Alaskan Amber.)

Sierra Nevada being #1 is no surprise, but the nice thing is that it's actually an excellent beer.

BEST SELLING CRAFT BEERS
1 Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
2 Samuel Adams Boston Lager
3 Blue Moon White
4 Samuel Adams Seasonal
5 New Belgium Fat Tire
6 Samuel Adams Light
7 Shiner Bock
8 Widmer Hefeweizen
9 Samuel Adams Brewmasters Collection
10 Redhook ESB
11 Pyramid Hefeweizen
12 Deschutes Mirror Pond Pale
13 Redhook IPA
14 Alaskan Amber
15 Deschutes Black Butte Porter

Kinda interesting, Sierra Nevada outsells Sam Adams Lager? Wow I never would've guessed that. Not surprised in general though that Sam Adams accounts for nearly a third of that list. It's weird, I don't even think of Sam Adams as a "craft brew" at all.

xpost- yea I really like Sierra Nevada, it's a perfect standby pale ale. I love how it's so widely available, too.

Blue Moon does not belong on that list. Also, WTF to #s 4 and 9, aren't those comprised of more than one variety?

Alaskan Amber is everywhere in, well, Alaska (and the greater Pacific NW IIRC).

those beers are like the major label beers of US craft beers.

I've always thought of Sam Adams as the Sub Pop of beers.

And yeah, Sierra Nevada is excellent. If I'm in a bar without much selection, SNPA is often my default.

yeah that works, sierra nevada is the touch and go or the matador

wait now i am destroying my metaphor.

lol

they don't even have snpa in montreal :(

The Alaska Amber was pretty good for a while there. Haven't had any in probably 10 years or more. Hell, I remember when it was called Chinook Amber!

I really hate Blue Moon.I love the Redhook stuff

yea i'm not really a fan of blue moon

surprised there's no rogue in that list.

btw, i finally got around to trying that morimoto soba black ale from rogue. it was good. i think i was hoping for it to be a bit thicker, but it was quite tasting. i find non-stout black beers to be pretty interesting, they're often very sweet tasting but not too heavy. i normally prefer stouts though.

*tasty, not tasting.

i had that winter blue moon the other night, i think it's called Full Moon. not too bad

i definitely second the interest in black non-stouts... i had that german one recently that says something like "black beer, blonde heart" or something on it. kostritzer?

I agree that Sierra Nevada is a fine beer - very hoppy, but with a complex, floral character that sets it above other hoppy American-style ales and lagers. It usually tastes fresh too. I don't always want something with such a strong bite to it, so I'll usually take an HB or Pilsner Urquell or even a Harp instead, if those are available - but I'd still rank it over Sam Adams Lager or Brooklyn Lager.

I never would've guessed that.

i wouldn't either, but perhaps Sam Adams seems more ubiquitous in the Northeast? or the West drinks a lot more beer?

that's possible. if someone's going to drink a craft brew on the west coast, i don't imagine them picking sam adams.

The Economist reports that a looming hops shortage threatens US craft brewers:

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10337782

Scary stuff.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.economist.com/images/20071222/20071222issuecovUS160.jpg

not such a merry christmas

Alaskan and Deschutes (as well as Full Sail and Rogue) beers are just ubiquitous here in the NW - to the point that I kind of don't think of them as "craft" beers anymore, they're kind of just the default. Most of them are pretty good.

I tend to like a lot of the Rogues the best, but they don't seem to have one single beer that's always around and on tap at any regular hole-in-the-wall bar. Dead Guy is probably the closest, but is still less common than Mirror Pond, Black Butte, Big Sky Moose Drool, Alaskan Amber / Pale / IPA, Fat Tire, and any of the Widmers.

I have a 22 of Deschutes Hop Trip in the fridge that I think I'm going to enjoy tonight.

Dead Guy seems to be the most common Rogue that you see on tap here in the Midwest. (I felt comfortable enough to include ROGUEDEADGUY in a crossword I made recently, clued as "'Morbid' beer made in Newport, Ore.")

I'm alternating Bell's Two-Hearted and Expedition Stout. They don't sell the stuff in Chicago any more, so it's a nice treat.

Great Lakes Brewing News National IPA Championship

brackets: http://www.brewingnews.com/nipac/images/NIPAC-RoundONE.gif

I think I've had 8 of these.

this makes me want to drink more sam adams... to show my support, or something, i guess

I had some magic hat number 9 last night, very nice a fruit beer that isn't sweet, very subtle tang of apricot.

they sell this nice tartish kriek in my local shop now but forgotten the name

Drij Fontainen?

I love that Maisel's Weisse stuff but haven't found a nearby offie with it.

http://www.lemarkbbc.com/images/bottles/469_Zubr.JPG

had a couple of bottles of this. It was notable because I mispronounced the name at the bar and got laughed at by a group of middle-aged Polish businessmen.

It wasn't that good.

how is it pronounced?

my local bottle-o has a bunch of obscuro euro beers and local boutique stuff but i haven't been drinking frequently enough to get the chance to check it out. has anyone had chili beer? is it worth it?

lol it's kind of hard to use letters, I guess like "zsheubber". with emphasis on the "zsh"

http://www.northcoastbrewing.com/beer-RedSeal.htm

Anyone tried North Coast Red Seal...?

Yeah, I've had that. It's pretty good.

So disappointed in Baltika 3. It used to be a great light beer back in the day in Russia, blah blah blah. It isn't the same now it's from Tesco's.

Red Seal is ok, but then I think my beer tastes have been permanently damaged by all the hop-centric American IPAs of the past few years. Everything else just tastes sort of bland now, and malty reds in particular have just fallen off my radar. It's like using too much hot sauce on your mexican food.

Overhopped American ales really piss me off. It's not a B.U. contest, assholes!

Strikes me as such an American approach too, just like how it's always "JIMBOB'S HOT-AS-FUCK HOTTEST FUCK YOU IN THE FACE HOT SAUCE," rather than just good-tasting hot sauce.

Baltika! I almost bought a 51oz plastic bottle of Baltika 9 at a beer store in Portland last month so I could mail it to my friend in Chicago. It just looked so horrible, and was like $4. Like the plastic bottle was saying "if you're drinking me you're depraved enough that you could easily break a glass bottle, plus you obviously don't care that this beer is going to taste like plastic".

I like hoppy IPAs but not everything should be be that way. I had a Sierra Nevada barleywine that was super hoppy the other day and was not at all what I wanted from a barleywine. The "everything else tastes bland" thing is also in effect, so most brown ales now taste kind of weak and flat to me now, like something is missing.

this is one of my favorites:

http://www.allagash.com/curieux.htm

You'll have to believe me: Baltika tasted great to a 21-year-old idiot wandering around Russia looking for things to drink other than vodka and Polish cream liquers.

You know what's not bad? the new Budweiser American Ale

You know what's not American? The new Budweiser American Ale.

Not that I really give a shit whether beers are american, it's just an amazingly nervy bit of doublespeak

Didn't like it...they should stick to lagers. It offended me with its attempt to be inoffensive.

Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA - This is a nice, smooth, well-rounded IPA. I would consider this as an alternative to my usual standby, Sierra Nevada - though the flavor seemed a bit less intensely floral than the SN - almost a little too well-behaved.

^^ive been sucking these back w/ regularity recently. v. good tho a little expensive to buy by the bottle

drinking Heineken. It's really pretty good.

Was in Amsterdam last weekend and had some more of these...
http://www.sevenpack.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ChristoffelBlonde.JPG
Really nice - although I'm not sure I could drink a lot of it.

Have been drinking Vedett quite a lot at home. I know it's a bit gimmicky but so nice. If only could figure out a way of getting a customised crate back from Belgium.

drinking Heineken. It's really pretty good.

― Tyrone Quattlebaum (Hurting 2), Friday, November 7, 2008 10:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wasnt there some ilx thread where a bunch of ppl were shitting on heineken? i think its perfectly good for a decently priced import

what do u guys think of grolsch - despite being a weird word to pronounce i enjoy it, and also i enjoy the gimmicky caps

Grolsch can be OK but can also be quite 'oniony' to me anyway - particularly if it's not super cold.

I was told by the UK marketing manager for it over here that they wanted to serve it REALLY cold in the pubs over here but the Dutch parent company wouldn't let them - maybe this is why I don't like it so much when it's on draft.

wasnt there some ilx thread where a bunch of ppl were shitting on heineken? i think its perfectly good for a decently priced import

― Because it's a snow machine (deej), Saturday, November 8, 2008 4:06 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah, I think I and a lot of people came into the beer world with negative impressions of it as the beer equivalent of a BMW or something, plus with all the new microbrews and imports to choose from it seemed dumb to drink Heineken. But I got some on sale and I think it's very tasty. A nice, well-balanced beer.

i had a Dead Guy Ale last night--pretty great, never tried a Rogue before

Yeah agreed on Heineken. Nothing wrong with it - I have a mini keg in right now. Great beer and one of the few reliable international brands.

The only thing ever wrong with it was the old Heineken you used to get in the UK. They actually used to make an adulterated watered down version as people were more used to drinking lager than bitter. One of the worst beers I've ever drunk. So glad it's gone.

I don't like Heineken like I don't like Stella - both always taste kind of skunky to me in an unpleasant way. A lot of pilsners taste do this to me, so it might just be that. It's a flavor I really don't like in beers.

i had a Dead Guy Ale last night--pretty great, never tried a Rogue before

― Mr. Que, Saturday, November 8, 2008 9:23 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

The deli around the corner from me usually has this. It's great.

Tonight is the Southampton Publick House double white. It's good. It doesn't gimme a headache like a lot of white beers do (I'm looking at you, hoegarden.)

I'm just now enjoying my third Millstream Schild Brau Amber, which they sell at the local hippie whole food store. Not one of those super-hoppy American ales, but kind of at the malt-y end of the lager spectrum. Probably only available around Iowa, but yumm.

Had lovely Westmalle last night, ruined only by a terrible date

What beers should I seek out in Austin, TX?

Yeah, Heineken tastes kind of metallic to me.

never really liked heineken. given the choice, i'd rather drink budweiser.

are there really that many super-hopped american beers? maybe i'm just used to them being around at this point? i guess i like XTREME bitter IPAs, but only for like a glass, then i get sick of them. one example of that is
http://www.stonebrew.com/tasting/ruination/design/photo.jpg

also, v excited that the winter ales are all out already. i liked the deschutes jubelale and new belgium 2 below.

I don't like Heineken like I don't like Stella - both always taste kind of skunky to me in an unpleasant way. A lot of pilsners taste do this to me, so it might just be that. It's a flavor I really don't like in beers.

This is exactly how I feel. My preference of late is for pale ale. Sierra Nevada is really quite awesome for the price.

picked up a Three Philosophers (haven't tried it yet, but I'm a big Ommegang fan) and a Unibroue Quatre Cientemps (had this with dinner last night; I've had it before, and it remains one of my favorite beers. only 7.5%, too, so it doesn't knock me on my ass quite as fast as the other Unibroues. too bad it's a limited edition Q_Q)

also had a Terrapin Gamma Ray the other day -- weird, extremely sweet, 11% ABV "wheat wine". not unpleasant, but I'm not sure I'd buy it again.

i love this stuff

http://blogs.menupages.com/philadelphia/hitachino.jpg

I think I posted about Hitachino in another beer thread, still pretty good stuff. Been chilling with Rogue Double Dead Guy lately, and the Bell's Amber.

lots of Sierra Nevada Celebration for me.

we have another good local brewer here in Oregon that just started bottling, they are called Ninkasi. Anybody had it yet? They make about six or seven varieties in bottle.

In case anyone has been tempted by the Bell's Cherry Porter: don't be.

I've had the Ninkasi IPA a couple of times when in Eugene, and found one in Portland a couple weeks ago. I think I liked it?

I haven't had a Double Dead Guy yet, is it very different or just more boozy tasting? I had the Rogue Yellow Snow the other night for the first time and it was really good.

One of the benefits of Bell's returning to the Chicago area is that their interim brand ("Kalamazoo Beer") is now for sale dirt cheap in bars and stores. It's not quite a Bell's, but for $1.75 a bottle it kicks PBR/Old Style/Schlitz's collective asses.

I can't get used to the idea of buying beer in a champagne bottle.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/213/tx6240rv7.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/pantomus/OldRasputin.jpg

http://www.beerclubofbritain.co.uk/images/uploads/roaringmeg_large.jpg

is all leinenkugel so unimpressive? i've taken almost a month to finish 6 of them! it doesn't help that it is "berry weiss" and i really don't like fruity beer (except i would drink one in the summer, only one) but i needed it for a recipe. it's like drinking juicy juice. bleh.

normal leinies is pretty reliable cheap beer---it's like the yuengling of the midwest

but fuck that fruity bullshit

srsly whose idea was fruity beer--they are stupid. i had this in august. i like the hilarious name and label but if i wanted to drink peach juice i'd drink peach juice! should just be called "peach" anyway, there was no wheat to be found.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/50/136392892_87f2bf94c2.jpg

i will try these normal leines because i am in a non-yuengling state too

Had Sly Fox Pale Ale in a can -- not that good.

Normal Leinie's to me means someone brought one of those sturdy boxes out to someone's party in the woods at a cabin or at the beach and there will probably be fireworks or naked skiing or boot hockey or a homemade slip-and-slide and a sauna and stars and such. Therefore it's always going to be great.

haha that sounds like that 'perfect party' thread

leinenkugel's fireside nut brown is amazing shit guys

maybe a little bit sweet for some but I am very much enjoying a proper brown ale produced stateside that isn't hopped to shit

fruit beer, and pumpkin beer, are some of the stupidest products ever. who likes them, actively???
a six pack of any kind of fruity lambic or pumpkin beer would sit in my fridge forever.
lately at home, been drinking guinness, and whatever wines my roommates have on hand.
tonight i did not drink any beer, only whiskey.

also, sly fox may not be good, but it is affordable and drinkable. still better than a tecate.

I'm sorry you never learned how to drink tecate

tecate isn't really the best example i guess. cuz it's totally a fine beer.
but really, sly fox isn;t really bad.

really really really

innis & gunn.....just tried this Scottish beer tonight for the first time. Quite aley...really amazing toffee/vanilla flavours in there. so good.

a six pack of any kind of fruity lambic or pumpkin beer would sit in my fridge forever.

Pumpkin beer is mostly disappointing, except for...

http://www.shawncope.com/beer/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/dogfish_head_punkin_ale.jpg

ive never had the dogfish head one but i should def check it out - the idea of them doing pumpkin ale is like the perfect test to see which law is more true, "dogfish head always makes great beer" and "pumpkin beer always blows"

i had this sam adams cherry wheat beer recently, it was a pretty tough six pack to get through.

Haha, Sam Adams Cherry Wheat is the first beer I ever ordered from a bar in the U.S.

the dogfish head with raisins sux0r.

what beer to drink tonight?
given how crummy the day was i think i might just get cheap bourbon.

Oh gosh, I've really enjoyed some pumpkin beer this year. Also Raspberry beer is delicious, esp. this one...
http://www.gastronomydomine.com/2005_11_01_images/beer%2520018.jpg

i think i knew cherry wheat was an epic fail when my gf wouldn't touch it. i have come to realize she has forgotten more about beer than i ever know, i.e. her encyclopedic knowledge of beer bars in cities we have yet to go to.

"malt beverage with natural flavor" (shudder.)

I don't think Cherry Wheat is bad for what it is, but I don't often have a taste for fruity beers like that.

The other night I had a Unibroue Apple Ephemere, which was great because it was basically just a well-rounded Belgian white with just a tiny hint of apple.

i had an orchard white from this place, pretty dope imo:

http://www.thebruery.com/beers/index.html

Yeah, that sounds tasty.

Garda, was the Innis and Gunn the IPA or the Blonde? Saw them both in Sainsburys, couldn;t decide which to go for and so bought some of Prince Charles Select Ale instead.

Not sure, it says "original" on it and "oak smoked beer". They only had one variety in my Sainsburys. I'd recommend it highly tho, 4 for the price of 3 at the moment. Realised it's 6.6 percent after drinking four...oh well.

all pumpkin beer is vile
lenie's berry weiss is vile
sam adams cherry wheat is vile
sam adams honey porter is vile

but any "smoked" beer (or beer that involves liquid smoke) is even more vile

(imo)

i can imagine smoked would be gross, possibly grosser than fruity

one thing i like a lot though: winter warmer! any spicy fall/winter-type beer. like harpoon ww or great lakes xmas ale.

Dan, what do you think about Three Floyds Pride & Joy? I could've sworn I'd had it on tap somewhere and enjoyed it, but the six-pack I bought last week was kind of gross. It tasted kind of floral or artificially sweet, like Smarties or something.

Not that the beer itself was sweet, but it had the peculiar tang of artificial sweetener, if that makes sense.

Fruit's a great flavoring in lambic, but doesn't really suit lager or ale. There are a couple of beers with fruit flavor that aren't gaggy, but that's not much of an endorsement. (Pyramid Apricot Weizen is decent.)

I had a taste of rauchbier at the Sierra Nevada brewpub...blechhh.

xp Hmmm, reviews at beeradvocate.com are mentioning grapefruit. I guess that's a positive spin on it. Not my cup of tea, though.

but any "smoked" beer (or beer that involves liquid smoke) is even more vile

this doesn't taste ultra smokey to be fair...I've had smoked beers that taste like sausages but this is definitely not of that variety. I really recommend it, it's a very smooth treacley taste...really good.

Pride & Joy is decent, I think I've only had it on tap though. Maybe you got a bad batch? All the Three Floyd's I've had have been at least as good, even if maybe I wouldn't go for them again (Scotch Ale comes to mind, just not my thing).

I'm having a Goose Island Honker's btw, on sale for 5.99 a six at my local store.

xpost the ones I've had have an aftertaste like sitting around a campfire all night

Yeah I know what you mean, this definitely isn't like that.

Had a taste of one last night that was like a chorizo.

not good

Overhopped American ales really piss me off. It's not a B.U. contest, assholes!

― Rock Hardy, Thursday, November 6, 2008 2:31 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Strikes me as such an American approach too, just like how it's always "JIMBOB'S HOT-AS-FUCK HOTTEST FUCK YOU IN THE FACE HOT SAUCE," rather than just good-tasting hot sauce.

― Tyrone Quattlebaum (Hurting 2), Thursday, November 6, 2008 2:42 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

haha. i'm generally a fan of the obnoxiously hopped american IPAs. i agree though that it's in some ways a typical american approach.

but really, i don't think i've had an english IPA that really compares to an american one. the english ones just taste watery in comparison. the obnoxiousness at least makes for more adventurous brewing.

also, most good american IPA brewers are smart enough to know that simply adding more hops doesn't make a good beer. the best american IPAs IMO usually have a big, malty taste upfront to provide a good counter to the bitterness.

agree though that i

* agree though that one or two big IPAs is all it takes before they get to be a bit much. i've come around to enjoying more rounded-out, subtle beers

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2287/2149728296_cc4a538f23.jpg

To start, and then later on I will move on to Rogue Dead Guy Ale.

^^ black chocolate's one of the best buys for big-tasting stouts right now. 8.99/six, that's pretty awesome compared to most. what's old rasputin, like 9.99/four?

i was so happy to see that beer show up on the shelves a few weeks ago

i think it might be even more here, like $12/four.

http://www.villevallapub.se/sortiment/image_file/22

Disappointingly sour tasting. Could have been sitting on that HEB shelf for no telling how long, though.

this one's great........

http://ontap.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/storm.jpg

Gulden Draak is one of my favorite Belgians, maybe you're right on the storage.

And this is what I had tonight...

http://static.flickr.com/108/298326506_17a0546bbd.jpg

my current fave quality but not $$$ beer, frequently on sale for $7/6-pack.

i can imagine smoked would be gross, possibly grosser than fruity

one thing i like a lot though: winter warmer! any spicy fall/winter-type beer. like harpoon ww or great lakes xmas ale.

― ketchup dood (harbl), Monday, November 17, 2008 11:30 PM (Yesterday)

otm x 6000 re fall/winter beer. though i did have a winter beer at a local brewery (the elysian in capitol hill) and it was just too much. to the point where i couldn't finish it because it was just too much spiciness, and it was making me nauseated.

here is an example of a good smoked porter:
http://www.stonebrew.com/porter/porterleft.jpg

For winter spiced beer I like Anchor Steam's version ("Christmas Ale" I think it's called). Haven't had any yet this year.

And I had a smoke beer once from Germany. Can't remember the brewery but it had a yellow label. I liked it well enough but at ~$4 bottle probably wouldn't buy another one.

re: Gulden Draak & storage

Live beers are more sensitive to those issues, right? Also, I got a big one that was corked rather than capped - dunno how that might effect freshness.

I had this Ommegang Three Philosophers Belgian Style Blend the other day. I didn't care for it very much. The cherry flavor made it a bit cough-syrupy to my palate:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/42/3457

OTOH, I bought a six-pack of this the other week, and found it quite drinkable - like a pilsner but a shade darker. Mind you it's not going to displace Pilsner Urquell as my Czech beer of choice:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/308/3263

(That last one was BrouCzech Lager - for those who don't want to click on the link.)

no link to the current new yorker article about "extreme beer"?

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/24/081124fa_fact_bilger

money quote:

“When a brewer says, ‘This has more hops in it than anything you’ve had in your life—are you man enough to drink it?,’ it’s sort of like a chef saying, ‘This stew has more salt in it than anything you’ve ever had—are you man enough to eat it?’ ”

Fuck over hopping, fuck this stupidity really hard.

Quote very much OTM.

yeah i'm glad to see there is some pushback on this hop thing.

this is my new favorite beer, very tasty and smooth!

http://soheil.callage.com/photo%20Galleries/Beers/images/Netherlands-Tilburg%20Brown%20Ale.jpg

the new New Yorker hasn't arrived in my mail yet but the podcast teaser about the beer article is worth listening too (probable obvious overlap with article)
http://www.newyorker.com/online/2008/11/24/081124on_audio_bilger

dude, Ed, some people like really hoppy beers. I like them once in a while. Nobody is forcing you to drink them. What's the big deal?

I like some hoppy beers - but I think that those IPA-style beers have become almost synonymous with American micro-brew, to the point that if you go to a beer store with a "good" selection, you will find dozens of variations on a single theme, but not much variety outside of that. But hey, if that's what people want... I guess the IPA-style beers are sort of the equivalent of Starbucks coffee. The typical Starbucks dark roast flavor signifies "gourmet" in coffee much the same way as hoppiness signifies "gourmet" in beer - to the point that people who style themselves as connoisseurs forget that good coffee can also be medium roast, or that good beer doesn't have to be loaded with hops.

^real talk

Thanks for that New Yorker link. Good article if only for understanding how the personalities of the brewers drive their companies. Everything Brooklyn produces is consistently pro but not revelatory, while Dogfish is wildly hit-or-miss.

x-post oh yeah and there are a couple good American IPAs and a ton of really bad ones.

I don't know, there are plenty of great pilsners and stouts and wheat beets and whatnot being produced. Most of the brewers that make the super-IPAs also make other quality beers too.

ha i feel like im living on a different planet from you guys--the stores i go to have as many IPAs and other hoppy beers as they do stouts & whatever else--then again i like hoppy beer so finding it in a fridge doesnt fill me with insane rage

stores I go to in DC are usually like IPA SECTION, IPA SECTION, IPA SECTION,
BELGIAN SECTION, CORONA ET AL SECTION, HEINEKEN ET AL SECTION OTHER AMERICAN CRAFT BEERS SECTION (YUENGLING GOES HERE)

I know what m@tt means--it's like if you're going to "make it" as an American craft brewer you are obligated to share your vision of the IPA with the world. My local store has a ton of these random-ass breweries with obnoxious labels telling you how much ass their IPA kicks.

Nevertheless this thread has inspired me to go there tonight and pick up some silly American craft beer.

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/video/palosanto.htm

wow this stuff!!

did we havea thread already talking about burkhard bilger's piece in the nyer food issue? my corner store bro says they've been moving quite a bit more DH product since. "who reads the new yorker?" internet, dogg.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/24/081124fa_fact_bilger?currentPage=all

+ budweiser american ale. I tried this (like, the free sample tumbler they give you at the bar, because it was on draft at one of our locals) and it's really not that far a stretch from a regular sam adams. I see two outcomes for this:

1. when I go to ballgames, there is an outside chance that one of the roaming hawkers will have something in his or her tub that I might deign to drink, since everything's $7 anyway and really fuck roaming around the tunnels to find the one or two kiosks selling IPA in plastic cups

2. bud drinkers in the boonies might try it, like it, and then end up moving on to drinking anheuser-busch's competition - real sam, or whatever other stronger stuff than the weaksauce american pilsner that's everywhere.

I really don't see anybody who's already drinking sierra nevada or whatever deciding that all of a sudden this stuff is their preferred adult beverage. the distribution oligopoly and consistency of output are the pillars of busch-inbev/millercoors' dominance - trying to get a wedge in against craft brews (cf michelob's new wide range of stuff nobody cares about) is a rather ridiculous misunderstanding of your role in the marketplace

(the best point in the bilger article, which I think is made by Garrett Oliver from Brooklyn, is how this is all the fault of Prohibition - I'm personally biased in favor of any argument that blames stuff that sucks on bad legislation made by stuck-up churck dickheads, but it seems quite valide - that a whole generation of Americans grew up not knowing what a real drink could taste like, and therefore the wussiest of frothy pisswater beers around became the common denominator)

(apparently a single serving of palo santo marron is plenty enough to fuck up yours truly's typing)

the (now award winning! etc etc) barons black wattle ale comes highly recommended from me

what is the preferred cooper's offering for winter months? I realize it is brewed in opposite country but I'm looking for something a little more amenable during these terrible, awful, no good very bad months

i don't really drink coopers much so hard to say - their stout and brown ale are both very nice though and would be winter-appropriate

that article is terrific--there is/was a big storm brewin over on the beeradvocate forums cause oliver felt like he was misquoted (or not properly contextualized) w/r/t his quote about hops and salt. the writer shows up to defend himself, and so does calagione, just to bask in the glory i guess.

its funny because i dont think oliver was particularly poorly represented--he sort of comes off like a pompous ass, but like a smart, and basically right, pompous ass. calagione just looks like a fun bro to hang around with which is probably why the article is about him (also wacky beers are way more fun to write about)

http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read/1632647

awesome link thanks max!!

It's true, I do find the term "extreme beer" to be irredeemably pejorative. That's my opinion. You are welcome to yours. We won't be discussing it here yet again - that would be boring.

garrett oliver rules

fingers xd that bilger decides to make a book out of brewery stories

is it hard to find dogfish in places that arent near delaware

I am drinking beer in the new era

grolsch weizen is my shit recently. not as tart as erdinger, not as banana-ry as franziskaner, just so crisp and rich and endlessly drinkable. the best wheat beer i think.

I live 2,636 miles from the Dogfish Head brewery and can always get the basic ones.

Dogfish is in Delaware? I'm picturing this brewery in between of a bunch of fake nominal bank offices.

is it hard to find dogfish in places that arent near delaware

― eman cipation s1ocklamation (max), Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:10 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no its all over

I finally had a chance to try Leinie's Fireside Nut Brown the other night at a party, and I am not feeling it. Way too sweet for my taste. I think Leinie's is doing this with all their "boutique" beers, though, upping the HFCS content and making them almost an alcopop to increase sales among the masses. Original is still unfadeable, though, imo.

I had a Boulder Brewing Co. "Hazed and Infused" dry-hopped ale at the same party, and it was pretty good. Horrible hippy-dippy tie-dyed label design, though.

dogfishhead is some srsly ghastly shit and epitomize everything thats wrong w/the world pretty much

guys no one sells dogfish anywhere in minnesota :(

i asked the beer store guy about it and he said that dogfish head had some beef with their MN distributor (since gone out of business) and has basically refused to do business with anyone in the state ever since

what the hell

u r so rong, jho, i am questioning our relationship

dogfishhead is some srsly ghastly shit and epitomize everything thats wrong w/the world pretty much

― ice cr?m, Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:49 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

botched trolling attempts #34

microbrews generally and in particular this dogfishhead poop are on some no style bro culture bullshit completely - yah just throw some more ingredients in there bra good idea - the new yorker article on this fool made me puke over n over

srsly xp

challop-y

this is like the time you said you would never step in the smoke joint because they had a dish called "brooklyn wings"

look @ how fucking hideous their packaging is http://www.jaygaulard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/dogfish-head-chicory-stout.jpg

fuk these no taste fools

no style bro culture bullshit

beer marketing 101

the smoke joint and dogfishhed inhabit exactly the same 0% artistry 100% bad ideas niche

ya, thats why i said its like that time

have u ever considered that.... u mad?

i am totally mad at things like this yes

I'd venture that 95% of microbrew packaging is horribly ugly, you gotta get over that or you'll never drink anything. Though the Boulder Brewing Co. stuff is like the worst of the worst - I can get over stupid weed references or tie-dyed shit but not both at once.

also 95% of the beer inside tastes bad

WTF is "Wet hop"? Some new rap subgenre?

http://www.sierranevada.com/beers/harvest.html

i don't mind the dogfishhead IPAs, but i'd rather drink stone. the raisin d'etre beer by dfh is AWFUL and turned me away from trying any of their other whacky brews.

my fave ipa - http://www.accent-art.com/RACER5B.gif

jho just curious what beers do you like?

ice cr?m, your distaste for their packaging is awesome, especially after this quote from that article:

He designs many of Dogfish’s labels and cites Andy Warhol and Coco Chanel as inspirations—“that fusion of commercialism and art."

I have printed that article out to read on a ten hour flight. I am now worried it will throw me into a fit of rage and that I should chuck it out.

hey caek--the articles does follow the dogfish guy cause hes the lol wackiest brewmaster but it does provide other opinions such as that of the guy from brooklyn breweries and honestly even tho theyre very hit and miss in the opinion of many including this poster when dogfish is on theyre on and all in all its quite well written article imo and probably will not throw you into a fit of rage unless you have very strong opinions about which beer companies deserve to be written about in the new yorker which is obviously a ridiculous thing to have an opinion about.

its funny i pretty much agreed w/the brooklyn guys pov except his beer sux and displays too the bad qualities he criticizes dogfishguy for

i dont know about annoying philosophical positions behind these beers i just know when i buy the 90 min. it tastes good + i get a buzz pretty quick

jhoice cr?m just curious what beers do you like?

― ┃♜ฺ│♞ฺ│♝ฺ│♛ฺ│♚ฺ│♝ฺ│♞ฺ│♜ฺ┃ (dan m), Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

mostly imports bro - tho obv theres some mircobrews that dont conform to the classically american aspiration more is more

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/tong1/paulanerhefeweizen1.jpg

check out this wholesome celebration happening on the paulaner hefeweizen label - some days i like to gaze deeply and imagine myself there - one of my fav beers btw

http://i42.tinypic.com/dqk5jk.gif

this pinkus pils is slammin!

http://i43.tinypic.com/33c44dh.jpg

i like this microbrew called hennepin - its creamy and delicious

pffft
midas touch, punkin ale, pangaea and the palo santo marron are all pretty excellent beers imo (black and blue, raison detre bleccchhhh though)
brooklyn brewery is generally more so-so, nothing to write home about. Their lager recipe needs a re-tooling I think

the best beer I drank over christmas was this
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/30/43903
and we found some Cooper's Vintage at a new DC bottle-o and had it fedexed to TN
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/491/3624/
also very delicious

some other really excellent beers I had over the holidays was a tecate that had been in the fridge for who knows how long, a gennessee cream ale because nobody had seen that stuff in like years, some fordham beers and of course grolsch in the stopper bottles and tetleys in the widget cans.
I need to track down this "grolsch weizen."

had some of bosco's stone beer in nashville - the steinweizen was HORRID, the regular stone ale was acceptable though, steak sandwich and garlic fries mostly made up for it. blackstone's in nashville has the better beers I think, bosco's has better food.
also got to try a couple of other schlenkerla biers - the rauch weizen (bleah) and the helles (boring)

i like midas touch but it doesnt really taste/seem like a beer, plus its $$$

btw pumpkin drinker the restaurant downstairs from me has gennessee cream on tap

Paulaner Hefe was one of my first beer loves <3 <3 <3

oh and rodenbach flemish sour ale, the regular and the grand cru, both definitely in the does not taste/seem like a beer category

the rodenbach definitely reserved for late evening drinking
also just remembered I got some of this other weirdness
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/697/37837
which is just weird basically - I would not recommend

http://beeradvocate.com/news/1610704
^^^ Leinenkugel 1888 Bock story

this is available in the 7-11 by my office now
it's okay. BA posters gave it a B- which I think is probably about right.
I suppose I should be drinking it out of a glass like a civilized person

I bet it would be better if it were 1988 Bock though

i just had one raderberger tonight at the end of the workday.

I bet it would be better if it were 1988 Bock though

^^^^^^this

Is it sweet?

Bell's Best Brown is available on tap here for so cheap! 2.25 a glass.

it's not sweet like the fireside, no. I think I'm really getting a thing for these vintagey browns this winter. It's definitely best in a glass and left to sit and air for a while, big fluffy head.

I just had to wonder, since they used to just sell "Bock" in the winter w/ little to no fanfare. Then it became "BIG BUTT DOPPLEBOCK" and now this.

I am very much in favour of East End Black Strap Stout

http://www.eastendbrewing.com/?q=node/18

so i just cracked open one of these:

http://www.brewbasement.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/dogfish_head_red_and_white.jpg

^^^love their Brown Ale

guinness all week.

going between goose island and berghoff lately, bought some 12 packs in chicago and transported them back west

bell's <3 <3 4 ever

tonight I had a Famosa, from Guatemala

http://www.1000bottlesofbeer.com/images/37.jpg

xp 2x

so this red and white is really something (and at $13.49 for 750 ml it's a good thing). if you're unaware, my understanding is that it's a witbier plus pinot noir grape juice that is then barrel aged. the taste is mostly witbier but you do get the wine thing (moreso when it's cold for whatever reason) and a 10% abv that you can't taste at all. not too light, not too heavy, and really fucking delicious.

bell's <3 <3 4 ever

― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, January 26, 2009 8:22 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so true

I can't remember if this is the beer thread that had the "over hopped American microbrew" conversation, but on that note and the Bell's note I am drinking a "Hopslam" Ale, brewed with honey and coming in at 10% ABV. The honey balances the ridic amount of hops surprisingly well. It's still probably too much, but I kind of like it. I imagine some here would have a field day with the label:

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x68/LIONSTEETH/BellsHopSlam.jpg

Lonestar: still shitty, still cheap.

I think I've had two beers so far this year. I'll be remedying that this weekend.

i love hopslam!

Had an AleSmith Wee Heavy Scotch Ale tonight, pretty good (750 ml at 10% ABV = decent buzz). Would drink again.

i found the fiddler's elbow ale i had last week to be pretty good. english ale. medium-to-slightly fizzy. similar to old speckled hen, with a more bizarre aroma to it. some would say earthy but it's not quite... more pungent in the nose, refreshing in the throat.

that said, the stone chocolate stout was a more enjoyable, warming brew for the time of year. i go for the english ales in spring & summer, typically.

btw fiddler's elbow is a Wytchwood brew, same as the folks who make the Hobgoblin dark english ale, which i'm much more likely to get.

<IMG SRC=http://www.hoppocketwine.co.uk/images/wychwood%20fiddlers%20elbow.jpg>;

oh hell,

http://www.hoppocketwine.co.uk/images/wychwood%20fiddlers%20elbow.jpg

so i'm getting married this may, and considering it's one of my biggest interests/financial drains, i'd like craft beer to be well-represented at the reception.

i've been asking a lot of friends to get some input, and thus far people have given me basically three opinions:

1. offering some craft beer is all well and good, but you should also offer a bud or a pabst or something that everyone knows and likes
2. offer all craft beer, just make sure there are some styles that are accessible, too.
3. it's your wedding, get whatever the fuck you want

option 2 seems the best to me. i'd love to offer all great lakes (say, their 4 or 5 mainstay beers that are always available), b/c they're incredible, awesome beers that are also pretty accessible. i'm a native clevelander, too, so GL would represent my roots. though the wedding's in new haven, CT. and i know that GL isn't available, at least in package stores, in new england, so that might be a problem unless the venue knows a distributor who can get it.

but the same could be accomplished with say, brooklyn brewing co. - everyone knows them and the beers for the most part are pretty good (though i know there's much better out there.) i like how they're regional, too, as new haven is in the NYC/tri-state nexus, i guess.

what do y'all think? anybody plan a wedding and have to pick the beer?

before i even finished yr post i was thinking brooklyn would be perfect for this situation.

option 2 seems the best to me. i'd love to offer all great lakes (say, their 4 or 5 mainstay beers that are always available), b/c they're incredible, awesome beers that are also pretty accessible. i'm a native clevelander, too, so GL would represent my roots. though the wedding's in new haven, CT. and i know that GL isn't available, at least in package stores, in new england, so that might be a problem unless the venue knows a distributor who can get it.

get in touch w/ the public affairs/communications ppl at great lakes and explain the situation and then sort of vaguely ask for help--you never know, if theyre looking for good publicity opportunities they might supply yr wedding for free! esp. if u play up the "cleveland boy pining for home" angle.

ha! i did exactly that, max. they were very friendly and put me in touch with their new york distributor, who's based in buffalo. the buffalo dist. co. wasn't helpful, basically said "sorry we only do buffalo area."

but i'm gonna ask the management at our reception venue about GL. since they buy tons of booze all the time for events, they might know a distributor that could get it.

hrm

sometimes it's easier to get a keg through a distributor than bottles.

well brooklyn would def be easy to get in new haven

option 3: it's your wedding....

there is new england brewing co, which is located in CT and has pretty good beer and the elm city lager is something most anyone would drink, i think.
http://newenglandbrewing.com/brews.html

tbh i've never had NEBC. i should give it a try.

xp - i like the spirit behind option 3, but i guess i'm just not that kind of host. i'd rather have my wedding guests be drunk and happy and liking the beer than be sour over some russian imperial stout b.s.... besides i guess my own tastes have tamed quite a bit recently. i kind of overdid it with the RIS and double IPAs last year. if i can find a good amber or traditional pale ale, or a scotch ale or something a bit more balanced, it impresses me just as much.

so back to general beer discussion... some friends and i went to the berkshire brewing co. the other day, actually to consider beers for the wedding, but ended up just being a fun trip in itself.

was pretty awesome - totally free of charge, and we lucked out by having BBC's actual brewmaster lead the tour rather than just some guide. he was very generous with the free samples. we ended up having 3-4 full beers there. since living up here in western MA i've gotten to be a pretty big fan of berkshire. favorite's probably their traditional pale ale, def. their most complex beer. rich and caramely up front w/ a nice bit at the end but nothing over the top at all.

(i would actually consider BBC for the wedding but the reception venue will only do bottles, for some reason, and bbc only does the 22 oz bombers. i'd defintely prefer kegs in any case but no big deal)

i've been returning this week to the Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout. Much more drinkable than the Brooklyn Chocolate Stout, in which you can really taste the alcohol.

hay dudes just went to a bar on 4th ave full of horrible micro brews you wouldve loved it - did u know theres a type of beer served warm and flat on purpose - btw max they had settlers of catan there

http://www.pacificstandardbrooklyn.com

Thursday, April 2nd @ 8 PM in the Pub Room

An Evening With North Coast Brewing

Featuring Barrel-Aged Old Rasputin XI on Draught!

This is going to be awesome. This is like the only positive thing about living in the Chicago suburbs.

aw icey thank u 4 thinkin of me

i think warm flat beer is called british beer?

warm flat beer is great u guys are crazy

i live in london btw

i dig the occasional warm flat beer; better than the endless succession of IPGayz that they probably run through that place.

i think warm flat beer is called british beer?

no it's called British ale. don't besmirch beer by relating it to that vile shit.

Southern British Ale please, up North we have heads on our beers.

the whole pump that evokes the milking of a cow would put anyone off ale.

mind you Guinness is best room temp and flat

the warm flat beer is called cask beer and i was unaware that i was ordering from that section of the menu - i mean i didnt see that it said cask beer but also i wouldnt have known what that meant - it shouldve said "cask beer (warm flat beer)"

people should really deal w/their personal issues before ordering a beer imo

horrible beer is more of a public health issue really

cask ales are pretty dope, there are a few bars in l.a. that always have one on tap.

icey what is yr favorite beer then?

cask ales are pretty dope, there are a few bars in l.a. that always have one on tap.

I had a good local craft beer (don't remember what it was) at El Prado in Echo Park a couple weeks ago -- have you been to that place?

some brewery around there in east LA produces them--i cant remember the name of it but they always had one at the york.

i like tons beers im really into the pinkus pils right now - old reliables paulaner pacifico - i buy pilsner urquel as far as beers that can be found anywhere xp

Ha, I had some people over the other night and someone brought Pilsner Urquell and there was a discussion about whether it was skunked, and I took a sip and was like, "No, that's just how it tastes."

i think it's craftsman that is always on cask at the york? yeah el prado is pretty dope, vv good bar. probably my favorite beer bar in town, despite having a comparatively small selection and virtually no food.

xp yeah i kinda stopped drinking urquell for that reason but i'll still cave and buy stella every once in a while.

ever drink jever its like urquell but more

no i haven't--don't recognize the bottle actually. but i feel like drinking some pils today so i'm gonna try to track it down.

cask ales are great! ur crazy ice cr?m

not all are great, i should say. but a traditional stout, porter or strong ale or something on cask is delicious

i went to delaney's tap room, in new haven CT, two times this weekend. they had an IPA on cask and it really didn't seem very appealing.

plz explain to me what the desirable qualities of cask beer are - i mean it just seemed flat and warm

well, if it was actually WARM, then the pub you went to isn't serving it totally right. should ideally be around 50 degrees, though anywhere from 45-60 is okay.

but in any case, the beer's flavor profile will be a lot more pronounced if tasted around 50 degrees. you'll get more the of subtleties and layers of flavours than you would from an ice-cold beer.

also, re: it tasting "flat" -- carbonation even in microbrews isn't a totally natural occurence -- towards the end of the brewing process a lot of breweries stick this rod-thing into a tank that emits carbon into the beer

but yea if you really are into pilsners and similar beers, cask-conditioned ales will seem pretty off.

are you into stouts or strong ales at all?

yah mean it wasnt completely room temperature it was slightly cool - but are there any particular qualities of cask beer that dont have to do w/it being naturally carbonated and served not that cold

im not really into stouts or strong ales particularly - tho maybe on occasion - def not any of this double ipa concentrated beer noise

xp - one quality of cask ales is that they tend to be fresher -- they're not filtered, still contain yeast, and fermentation is still going on in the cask

all that contributes to a more pronounced flavors

tbh though i'm no brewer and i could be fucking up everything i'm saying

to me the most decent thing a cask ale can do is be a good mild UK-style bitter with really low carbonation (i drink beer in spite of the carb and avoid soda like the plague tbh).

the original (UK) concept of an IPA is not that fucked, and normal-tasting UK ales are not really big in the USA--where somehow we twisted them into ridic double IPAs which make you want to pass out about 3/4 way through glass #1.

cask is an old school style right

yea

double IPAs either seem to get a ton of shit or else dorks claim they're the ONLY REAL BEER & all else is for pussies

my feeling is they're just one style & in the right circumstance they can be pretty tasty. they're are so many awesome and delicious styles of beer though and i don't want to limit myself to just one of them

^^^ great attitude

joe you could learn something from mark--i bet he doesnt even care if people went to space

(i was once one of those dorks tbf)

see the thing that kinda gets my goat abt the micro brew culture is so much of it seems to be abt the miutea of the process over the more subjective qualities of flavor and style. add the extreme double bock gracious! crazy ingredients n strong flavors at the expense of subtlety aspect and thats why imo it appeals to dudes so much. also their bottle labels are why so universally awful.

but maybe i care too much... my heart is too big and judgmental

my greatest beer experience recently was enjoying copious amounts of barleywine in SF in february. excellent, A+.

shut up and drink xp

will not

do a cask ale keg stand

i'm not sure it's so much "loss of subtlety" as much as like, we know lagers in general have a simpler palette than these super-heavy ales, but it's totally valid for beer to be cold and refreshing and something that you want to drink multiple bottles of. like those beer rating sites are a joke because certain styles start with a massive built-in advantage.

i think a lot of people go through a beer dork phase, i did a bit in lol college. but then i started to think why would i ever want beer to be like fucking wine and bought a case of red stripe. don't get me wrong i still love trying new/weird beers but it's more of an occasional treat than a life directive.

in general i think there's only a few american IPAs worth a damn. the new sierra nevada torpedo is pretty good if you only have one.

sry that got really long cause you guys kept writing good stuff. icey you are like 100000x OTM re: label designs. there are several brands i won't even try cause the design is so bad.

http://www.beermonthclub.com/newsletters/images/Boulder-MojoIPA_SM.jpg

worst label designs - magic hat, smuttynose

i know joe hates bk beers but i like their labels

who gives a good goddamn about the labels, drink up

otm

i don't like magic hat's labels either

though max, being an artist, should have good critiques

i dont h8 bk like i do crazy microbrews - just think theyre kinda meh - will drink their pils w/o complaint

[see the thing that kinda gets my goat abt the micro brew culture is so much of it seems to be abt the miutea of the process over the more subjective qualities of flavor and style. add the extreme double bock gracious! crazy ingredients n strong flavors at the expense of subtlety aspect and thats why imo it appeals to dudes so much. also their bottle labels are why so universally awful.

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:54 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yea, i can get with this in some ways. right now i'm all about trying to learn more about traditional styles and all that. the american breweries that have most impressed me lately have tended to be the more 'conservative' ones more or less, say great lakes, bell's (tho they have their extremes), ommegang, brooklyn.

but at the same time i appreciate brewers trying to mess around and try out weird new styles. think about it - for like 60 years after prohibition, american beer was boring as shit! before prohibition it was one of the most diverse in the world! i get annoyed at the double IPA HOP OVERLOAD bullshit too but in the end i've got nothing against brewers trying out weird stuff

i get annoyed with SUPER HOPOVERLOAD IPA as well, but what can I say, double IPA's are delicious, my favorite kind of beer

fyi worst beer label in the US is from my hometown:

http://www.keweenawbrewing.com/images/beers/RedjacketLogo.png

but yea some labels are AWFUL

see weyerbacher

fyi worst beer label in the US is from my hometown:

hahaha! is the beer called DOUBLE IPA GAY MINER HOPFEST

http://www.weyerbacher.com/cwo_images/image20.jpg

presentation is important - i want my beer to look good - im into how things look

^^^^ "designer"

that's why u should pour it into a glass, looks best then

fuck, good-looking american microbrew labels is a much tougher nut to crack.

i like sierra nevada and brooklyn well enough for starters. oh yeah i dig victory labels too.

http://thefullpint.com/pics/stormking.gif

srsly this shit is so classic:

http://www.lovebrew.com/images/Pint_glass_300x509.jpg

Bell's Kzoo stout is one of the best imo, but I am a Ladislav Hanka stan.

http://www.thebarleyblog.com/images/label_kalamazoo_stout.png

my fave labels are basically regular bud, miller high life, rolling rock, red stripe

these might even be better:

http://www.acemart.com/renderImage.image?imageName=graphics/00000001/products/LIB14801.jpg

what do u guys think of ommengang's labels?

http://www.blogaboutbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ommegang.jpg

I like the color

My favorite beer of late has been Firestone Walker CPA. On sale at Whole Foods, and very tasty.

[see the thing that kinda gets my goat abt the micro brew culture is so much of it seems to be abt the miutea of the process over the more subjective qualities of flavor and style. add the extreme double bock gracious! crazy ingredients n strong flavors at the expense of subtlety aspect and thats why imo it appeals to dudes so much. also their bottle labels are why so universally awful.

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:54 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yea, i can get with this in some ways. right now i'm all about trying to learn more about traditional styles and all that. the american breweries that have most impressed me lately have tended to be the more 'conservative' ones more or less, say great lakes, bell's (tho they have their extremes), ommegang, brooklyn.

but at the same time i appreciate brewers trying to mess around and try out weird new styles. think about it - for like 60 years after prohibition, american beer was boring as shit! before prohibition it was one of the most diverse in the world! i get annoyed at the double IPA HOP OVERLOAD bullshit too but in the end i've got nothing against brewers trying out weird stuff

― mark cl, Wednesday, April 1, 2009 4:05 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im not against people trying new things - but there seems to be a lack of of discipline and taste operating - maybe the industry just needs time to mature but the whole bro culture thing is really off putting

microbrews too are totally shooting themselves in the foot from a business perspective w/their nerdism when they could appeal to a much wider market w/a more measured approach

its interesting the american wine industry suffers from some of the same flavor bomb problems but have been way more successful marketing their product to a wider audience - some of this im sure has to do w/the fact that theres already a lol hueg american beer industry in the form of bud etc - but still i think micro brews would be all round better off if they grew up a little

my fave labels are basically regular bud, miller high life, rolling rock, red stripe

― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Wednesday, April 1, 2009 4:15 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes def love the classic labels - btw this goes beyond design considerations - i mean i dont think anyone would be lol designer abt food presentation - it just plays a huge part in the experience

xp really? i thought microbrews were holding more of the market than ever. there's also production issues to think about--dogfish head can't even fill all of its orders and it only ships to like the northeast and atlantic coast. the really successful microbrews are like full steam ahead right now i think.

yr IPAs in the states are what get the negative comments from us Brits - me among them, that overload of hops just isn't what we order when we order an IPA, we expect a mildly hoppy, well rounded and smooth beer, not something that makes yr mouth do backflips. That said I did have some cracking beers last time I was over - a particular favourite was this one:
http://www.ciscobrewers.com/OnlineStore/images/WhalesTalePintGlass_small.jpg

nice label too.

the pint glass with the bulge is the one for me though as posted above

yeah dude whale's tale is a winner.

as i recall the stats in that nyer article were not that impressive - i mean maybe from their own pov the microbrews are doing well which is certainly fine - i mean i dont at all think businesses are best when theyre as big as they can be - but i do think its inevitable that someday someone is going to look at making high quality beer in america in a diffent light and expand the audience a bunch

The flip side to that is that product can suffer. I hate to keep talking about Bell's but when they started expanding a few years ago (built a whole new brewing complex, started making some of their popular seasonal offerings year-round) a lot of the qualities that drew people to them in the first place suffered.

One that sticks out in my mind is Oberon -- it was a summer yeasty wheat ale, very easy to drink but with a flavor all its own that was unlike German hefes or Belgians or whatever. People used to count down to the day it would go on sale in stores and bars. Then they made it available year round and it lost those flavorful qualities. It got a lot lighter in body and blander in flavor.

This is only one example, of course. In my mind it's always kind of been like indie labels: you have your Merge, Sub Pop, and Touch & Go like Sierra Nevada, Red Hook, and Sam Adams... and then there are the smaller regional labels putting out noise bands and the smaller regional brewers experimenting with crazy ingredients or techniques.

tl;dr - shut up and drink

I bet u label guys would hate 3 Floyd's

disclaimer - i don't know shit about business

but for a relatively young industry (dogfish head and sam adams aren't old at all, compared with the big beer giants a la budweiser), i think they're doing fairly well, esp. considering the near-total market domination the beer giants have had since prohibition

also - dogfish head for example has gained their success precisely by being over-the-top, crazy-ingredient beer nerds. not sure if that's a winning long-term business solution but i doubt they would be such a prominent beer label if they were traditional and/or classy

wrong choice of words re: "classy" but you get my point

semi-interesting stats: http://www.beertown.org/craftbrewing/statistics.html

I like Rogue's Bolshevik aesthetic.

Ska Brewing's labels seem a little too tacky/garish:
http://www.viewpoints.com/images/review/2008/338/12/1228329158-37509_full.jpg

totally agree with dan re: oberon--it was good the first year i tried it and then the next yeah it was kinda bland

I bet u label guys would hate 3 Floyd's

so otm! gumball head has the nastiest label (reminds me of those skin graft records back in the day) but man is it good.

also, is it even reasonable to think that the mass market bud-miller-coors "regular beer consumer" is going to open up to microbrews? IMO they might have a better shot going for the upmarket wine/fancy spirits consumer, cutting into that market, then trying to compete w/ budweiser

i wish more microbreweries were as experimental as dogfish head. most of them are content pumping out IPAs.

any recs for a really interesting micro brand?

For all its success, craft beer has yet to reach the mainstream. Ninety-six per cent of the market—about sixty-seven billion bottles a year—still belongs to non-craft beers and imports. Oliver remembers talking to a brewer at Anheuser-Busch a few years ago, when sales of Michelob had fallen to about a third of a billion bottles a year. “He told me, ‘I wish that brand would just die.’ And that one beer was the size of the entire American craft-brewing industry.” The disparity is partly a function of poor marketing, Ogle argues—craft brewers are still preaching to the converted—and partly of cultural conditioning. Until more Americans wean themselves from ketchup, soda, and other sweet foods, they may never enjoy the taste of hops. “When I talk to people like Sam, I’m constantly amazed at how persuaded they are that everyone drinks craft beer,” she says. “If that’s true, why are they still sitting at four per cent?”

In a decade’s time, Oliver believes, breweries like his could claim a quarter of the market. (Paul Gatza, director of the Brewers Association, predicts something closer to ten per cent in twenty years.) But only if they don’t scare people off first. “The whole idea of extreme beer is bad for craft brewing,” Oliver says. “It doesn’t expand the tent—it shrinks it. If I want someone to taste a beer, and I make it sound outlandish and crazy, there is a certain kind of person who will say, ‘Oh, let me try it.’ But that is a small audience. It’s one that you can build a beer on, but not a movement.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/24/081124fa_fact_bilger?currentPage=all

otm imo fwiw

Huh, I didn't know that Magic Hat had acquired Pyramid.

xp true, but why is dogfish maxed out? mostly because of 60-minute IPA, a solid mainstream IPA that lots of people like (and gives them license to brew all their weirdo shit). i would really be curious about actual instances of craft brewers "scaring people off."

when people talk about a craft brewer going mainstream, the result is sam adams. which is fine, but i'm not sure if it's "better" than the model they have now except from a moneymaking standpoint.

xxp that is of course assuming that craft brewers want to grow that big

I mean, Larry Bell stopped selling beer in IL, his home state, because his distributor wasn't going to sell any but his top 4 popular brands.

right and i would assume this industry attracts a lot of guys who want a small-ish environment where they have a lot of control, make some money, pay good salaries/benefits to maybe 10-15 people, and live very contentedly. not sure there's much killer instinct in microbrew world.

^^^this

addendum--which is in total contrast to their evangelizing tendencies but if you want to brew beer for a living you might be a little weird anyway

Do Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, and Red Hook count as microbrews? It's pretty hard to find a bar around here that doesn't sell those beers.

i agree w/ NYer quote in many ways

but take sam adams for instance. straightforward, "grown-up", all-american, nothing quite extreme about them. IMO there's really nothing that's altogether that convincing about sam adams to make an everyday-average-beer-drinker change over from their budweiser or miller.

some of these bros must have grand ambitions

sam adams is boring imo, also their cherry wheat is the worst beer i have ever had

also they all have big beards

xps I would say yes, or at least "independent" in that they're not owned by Parmalat or whatever company just bought A-B.

red hook was owned by anheuser-busch, not sure if that is still true. sierra and sam are both too big for the micro category. but both started small and are probably not going to grow much more (having been around for 30+ years)

a couple of my faves from Europe at the moment - if you see them I can't recommend them highly enough:

http://www.freebase.com/api/trans/image_thumb//guid/9202a8c04000641f8000000008ddef69?maxheight=560&mode=fit&maxwidth=280

from North East France - a really underrated beer region, crazy considering it's basically Flemish like lots of the great Belgians

such as:

http://www.brasseriedelasenne.be/images/zinnebir.jpg

and how's that for a cool label? The de la senne beers are all great and all fantastically labelled.

Do Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, and Red Hook count as microbrews? It's pretty hard to find a bar around here that doesn't sell those beers.

yea, more or less. i think there is a technical distinction w/ regard to the term "microbrew" but they really have a lot more in common w/ ur average microbrewery than they do w/ anheuser-busch, i.e. they are really pretty small compared w/ the market kings

most sam is boring but sam summer is fuckin tight imo

btw for mark cl: fun midwest micros

Bell's (stan)
3 Floyd's
Great Lakes
Founder's
Atwater Block (newbs outta Detroit)

k according to biz journal A-B owns 35% of red hook.

(point taken re: red hook & AB) xp

wow, news to me

yea great lakes is my all-time top brewery maybe next to bell's, & founders is fuckin great- xp

time to go exercise so i can watch the celtics and drink mad beerz tonite.

destroyer u in MA?

(celtics?)

already exercised so I can watch the Nats and drink mad beerz tonite.

Dan, have you had Half Acre Over Ale yet? I wasn't that thrilled with their debut lager, but lagers don't thrill me in general. But the brewery is like four blocks from my apartment, so I want to support them. The Over Ale was on the menu at Tiny Lounge last weekend, but they were out.

I can't remember which one I tried, but I think it was the lager. I'm with you on both points, wanting to support them and not being totally thrilled. There's a rumor they might start sponsoring my soccer group, which would be pretty fucking awesome imo.

The Over Ale is much much better than the Lager, though I also don't really dig lagers so much anyway. But, yeah, I bought a six pack of the ale a couple of weeks ago and it wasn't the best beer ever but would buy again.

I really didn't enjoy the beer I had from the other new brewery in the hood, Metropolitan.

Oh, I didn't realize Metropolitan was up and running already.

yeah, they have it at Hopleaf, at least.

Nice. After glancing at their website, it seems like I'd probably enjoy their line of beers more when it gets warmer out.

hey mark yeah i'm in boston.

picked up some pilsner urquell on the way home in honor of icey. this:

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/05/miller_products/image/pilsner.jpg

is a goddamn label.

I went to a liquor store outside of my 'hood tonight and they had a whole cooler full of 3 Floyds' 22oz bottles, including one of these for the label police:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2400/2659011120_fa01a066f4.jpg

omg that label is terrifying

wau

speaking of designs, i love the silk-screened bottles a la rogue:

http://web.mit.edu/~tcarlile/www/images/blog/354roguechipotle.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/179/371479782_c4ad50733d.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3282/2637472443_ebc585741c_o.jpg

Yup, I mentioned those upthread.

from brewer's association http://www.beertown.org/ba/media_2009/Top_50_Release.html

TOP 50 CRAFT BREWING COMPANIES BY BEER SALES VOLUME
(BASED ON 2008 SALES)

1 Boston Beer Co. Boston MA
2 Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. Chico CA
3 New Belgium Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO
4 Spoetzl Brewery Shiner TX
5 Pyramid Breweries Inc. Seattle WA
6 Deschutes Brewery Bend OR
7 Matt Brewing Co. Utica NY
8 Boulevard Brewing Co. Kansas City MO
9 Full Sail Brewing Co. Hood River OR
10 Magic Hat Brewing Co. Burlington VT
11 Alaskan Brewing Co. Juneau AK
12 Harpoon Brewery Boston MA
13 Bell's Brewery, Inc. Galesburg MI
14 Kona Brewing Co. Kailua-Kona HI
15 Anchor Brewing Co. San Francisco CA
16 Shipyard Brewing Co. Portland ME
17 Summit Brewing Co. Saint Paul MN
18 Stone Brewing Co. Escondido CA
19 Abita Brewing Co. Abita Springs LA
20 The Brooklyn Brewery Brooklyn NY
21 New Glarus Brewing Co. New Glarus WI
22 Dogfish Head Craft Brewery Milton DE
23 Long Trail Brewing Co. Bridgewater Corners VT
24 Gordon Biersch Brewing Co. San Jose CA
25 Rogue Ales/Oregon Brewing Co. Newport OR
26 Great Lakes Brewing Co. Cleveland OH
27 The Lagunitas Brewing Co. Petaluma CA
28 Firestone Walker Brewing Co. Paso Robles CA
29 SweetWater Brewing Co. Atlanta GA
30 Flying Dog Brewing Co. Frederick MD
31 BJ's Restaurant & Brewery Huntington Beach CA
32 Rock Bottom Brewery Restaurants Louisville CO
33 BridgePort Brewing Co. Portland OR
34 Odell Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO
35 Victory Brewing Co. Downingtown PA
36 Mac and Jack's Brewery Redmond WA
37 Big Sky Brewing Co. Missoula MT
38 Gordon Biersch Brewery Restaurants Chattanooga TN
39 Karl Strauss Brewing Co. San Diego CA
40 Breckenridge Brewery Denver CO
41 Lost Coast Brewery and Cafe Eureka CA
42 Otter Creek Brewing Co. Middlebury VT
43 Utah Brewers Cooperative Salt Lake City UT
44 North Coast Brewing Co. Fort Bragg CA
45 Blue Point Brewing Co. Patchogue NY
46 Boulder Beer Co. Boulder CO
47 Pete's Brewing Co. San Antonio TX
48 McMenamins Breweries Portland OR
49 Anderson Valley Brewing Co. Boonville CA
50 The Saint Louis Brewery, Inc. St Louis MO