The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

LIMITED WARRANTY was a more vital, entertaining and coherent band than The Replacements ever were. Anyone who has heard Limited Warranty will understand the magnitude of that claim.

DUD.

I'll tell you what's put me off them, though, and that's their nickname. There's something so clubby about "the 'Mats" - it's like "the Stuffies" or something. Ugh. Just typing it makes me wince.

A totally irrational reason to call anything a dud though. So I won't.

(I mean, okay, the other half was like painful orthodontic surgery without anesthesia, but that doesn't diminish the fantastic half...)

And if you never needed an anthem, you never needed rock and roll.

Three classic albums (Let it Be, Tim, Pleased to Meet Me)

Alex Chilton Color Me Impressed Hold My Life Androgynous Skyway Answering Machine Here Comes A Regular Bastards of Young (the snottiest video EVER) Talent Show Achin' to Be Can't Hardly Wait (studio and live vers. on Shit Hits The Fans) Sixteen Blue Kiss Me On The Bus Left of the Dial Anywhere is Better Than Here I'll Be You I Will Dare Unsatisfied

I really don't think The Who have that many great songs. They were, quite simply, the greatest bar band ever.

that said, "hootenanny" through "pleased to meet me". anything else (with the possible exception of "stink" and "shit hits the fans") should be burned. yeah.

And as for Tom not needing rock n' roll, well, there's only so much to be done about that.

The 'Mats, I suppose, are somewhere between the Cheers theme song done right and Benetar's "Love is a Battlefield" done angry.

Crusing at two-in-the-morning for no reason other than to stay in range of a college radio station with a bread box transmitter -- a station you found while scanning manically for a dadrock station and the cold reassureance that .38 Special brings... or used to bring. Now you've found The 'Mats and between you and morning is nothing but a stretch of road.

I have also never, ever, ever, preferred a band to a jukebox in a bar ;).

I love "Let it Be". It's just the essence of rock and roll for me, as is early Kinks or Nuggets-era 60's punk, or The Who, as are the Only Ones, as are the Buzzcocks. As are Urge Overkill! It's just something you feel, and I don't believe what I'm feeling IS a whole lot of cliched images of Americana.

"Tim" is almost there, but I really don't care for the final albums - too polished. I reckon Westerberg knew it was all up, had said all he had to say.

So, classic, despite the later albums. They deserve it despite the rubbish later albums.

I like the fact that the once set fire to Robert Christgau's hair, though. I give that cheap media stunt an A-plus.

Incidentally, the Cheers theme song done right would simply be the Cheers theme song, and "Love is a Battlefield" done angry would be "Love is a Battlefield." Not as if I like 'em or anything (though it's possible that if I ever heard Larry Levan play it at the Paradise Garage, my opinion would be different), it's just that I think there's nothing you possibly do to those songs that would make their sniveling sentiments any more palatable.

the above four bands, when grouped, are unique in that i have a hard time summing up my feelings for them, explaining just why i love each, and i almost find it besides the point to try to *speak* about them, as the music says it all to me, and if it doesn't for you, then no reason anyone on this board will give will make you fall in love similarly.

if you don't enjoy the thump of "the immigrant song" or the glee of "bye bye, pride" or the ending of "tenterhooks" or the bridge of "can't hardly wait," then i've nothing to tell you, only that my world has been all the better for them.

How does one say "I'm Lonely" to an answering machine? Easy. I've done it *lots* of times.

Incidentally, I have a problem with the kinds of sentences about pop music that go "If you don't love X, then you beyond the pale in some way or another." It's a way to pre-empt criticism, and hence, it is bad.

Note that The Kinks lost their touck on the US charts once they stopped writing songs like 'You Really Got Me'

Mark, it IS a great idea for a thread. There are many great British bands who the USA never 'got'. What about The Jam?

I've always been kind of on the fence about the Replacements. There are a couple of nice moments in their early songs, but I have always suspected the fawning praise from the indie-boy critics had more to do with their beery self-mythology than the music.

Saying that people who don't like them "don't get it" sounds a little too uncomfortably close to the rantings of an 11 year old angry at some critic for dissing Justin Timberlake. And the 11 year old has more of an excuse.

I didn't mean that people who "don't get" the Replacements lose. I meant that people who don't get Mark's post lose. You, obviously, lose. Sorry. :)

When people go on and on about Husker Du, I understand, because Bob Mould and Co. were doing some very cool stuff within the framework of accessible, understandable rock music. The Replacements don't and could never compare to that.

I gave the replacements a try, I really did -- I knew people who raved about them so I tried to give them a chance to impress me.They didn't. I have listened to all of their material up through Pleased to Meet Me. It's not bad...but on other hand, there's just nothing particularly compelling about it to give it that spark that the best pop music has. I don't hate it - I just don't love it either, so I'm still a little baffled as to how you read the phrase "on the fence" as a stand-in for "dislike".

I never "admitted to" being turned off by the beery self-mythology. I was just casting about for an explanation of why certain people might be into them to such a fanatical extent. Maybe I should have included other reasons, to make the point more clear. You know, like maybe it wasn't the beery self-mythology people liked, it was the fact that Tommy Stinson looked like a hairier version of Rob Lowe if you were squinting in a smoky club (well, it was the eighties)? Or maybe airline pilots worldwide rallied round their cause for having the courage to diss stewardesses in "Waitress in the Sky"? Maybe that's what earned them all of that "parise". I don't honestly know.

If that means I've lost something, well...as the legendary Robbie Neville once sang, "C'est La Vie". :-)

Nicole: Pardon my errant assumption, but it sure sounded like you were giving the "beery self-mythology" as your reason for not liking them since you didn't give any other reasons.

The Replacements and Soul Asylum are both from the Twin Cities and have, at alternate times, been held up as examples of how vibrant and wonderful the Twin Cities music scene is. The Goo Goo Dolls are from Buffalo and therefore irrelevant to the conversation.

I said that The Replacements and Soul Asylum represent the worst of what the Twin Cities music scene had to offer, yet both bands seem to be liked a lot and I could never understand why.

Tim (after taking a moment to slam Husker Du) asked why I didn't bring up the Goo Goo Dolls.

I stated that the Goo Goo Dolls were from Buffalo and have nothing to do with my point, which is that the Replacements and Soul Asylum are two of the worst bands to come out of the Twin Cities.

Tim has a fit.

There are a ton of jokes begging to be made here, but in light of Tom's new stance regarding abusive posts, I will refrain. So, to Tim: Since you want to bring the Goo Goo Dolls into this so desperately, I can't say that they rank among my favorite bands, either, but at least their lead singer can sing. That will excuse many things in my book. (Also, congratulations on being the first person on these boards to attempt to take a shot at me for posting with a Harvard email address.)

Anyway, by your "relevance" thinking, what does Soul Asylum have to do with the Replacements? Do you think that has more or less musical relevance than what the Goo Goo Dolls have to do with the Replacements? If "your point" was that Soul Asylum is crap, why bring it up in a Replacements thread? Just because they're both from Minneapolis? Fine (however backwards as I see it), but allow me the same freedom to bring up a band that is far more relevant to the "conversation", and the Goo Goo Dolls seem more relevant to the Mats in a musical context than Soul Asylum. And we're still talking about the MUSIC, right?

And was I REALLY "slamming" Husker Du? Do I now need to recap what I said or can we all just scroll up a bit to re-read it? (I'm going to trust that we've learned to use them by now.) I didn't rip 'em a new a-hole or anything. I don't "slam" many bands and certainly not HD. But they have neither the highs nor the longevity of the Mats.

Now, you ask, "What does Soul Asylum have to do with the Replacements?" Perhaps if you had utilized your newly-mastered skill with scroll bars, you would have noticed that I initially wrote, "They, along with Soul Asylum, represent the nadir of the Twin Cities music scene and I, for one, could never fathom why people liked them so much." Once you've mastered reading comprehension, you'll see several pieces of information in that sentence:

- I think The Replacements are horrifically overrated.
- I think Soul Asylum is horrifically overrated.
- Both bands come from the Twin Cities.
- Both bands have received critical acclaim and have been held up as representations of Twin Cities music.
- I think that there are a lot of bands from the Twin Cities who are much better than both bands. I facetiously (oops, sorry: jokingly) said Limited Warranty, but that list also includes Husker Du/Sugar/Bob Mould, Walt Mink, The Blue Up?, Tool & Die, Savage Aural Hotbed, Prince and the NPG, The Time/Morris Day/Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Psykosonik, Project X, Lies Incorporated, and Ex- Boyfriends of Pamela.

The only reason I brought up Soul Asylum was to illustrate a point about how people view the music scene in the Twin Cities. I was not equating Soul Asylum to The Replacements as far as their respective sounds are concerned. I never claimed to equate their respective sounds (beyond putting them in a general category called "Bad").

As far as "slamming" Husker Du is concerned: You just said that they had neither the highs nor the longevity of the Replacements. Considering how painfully mediocre the Replacements are, I don't see that as a very positive comment on Husker Du.

Finally, I'd like to point out that, unless there's been a major bio- engineering breakthrough while I wasn't looking, the Replacements aren't your mother and I'm somewhat puzzled as to why you're reacting so vehemently at my disdain. I'm further puzzled as to why you're obsessed with where I went to school, but I really can't do anything about other people's jealousy.

I eagerly await your nonsensical, ranting reply.

(On a different note, I actually think the Replacements should get classic status from their seminal proto-slacker attitude, which was fairly distinct at the time)

I think that their slacker attitude (as opposed to Pavement's) does not translate well outside the US. (For the reverse thread - I would suggest Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians: "The Man With the Lightbulb Head" reminds me of British comedies on PBS. They're funny, though I never feel like I'm laughing for the right reasons.) A 'beery self-mythology' would leave songs like "Androgynous" and "Little Mascara" unexplained.

I think that Paul Westerberg may have sounded 'bleaurghiriffic' (great word!!) intentionally, but I find this endearing, like the nasality of Jonathan Richman's voice.

I'll quote part of Dan Perry's answer to the tunes thread: "Certain tunes fit certain ways of singing. Certain ways of singing fit certain tunes. [...] Is it suited to the lyrics being sung? Is it suited to the voice singing it? Does the person have the vocal training to pull it off? Does the person have too much vocal training to pull it off?"

I think Paul Westerberg's way of singing fit his songs. On the other hand, listeners may have different tolerances for vocal imperfections based upon their own training.

I think the claim that the Replacements' 'conflicted conflictedness' makes their songs illegitimate is not the same as saying ska-punk is bad because it rips off other musical genres. Experience may be genuinely secondhand. I think it's a suburban thing.

So I would say CLASSIC, but not for reasons of technical virtuosity or being really innovative or anything like that.

I hope I haven't destroyed the fun of this thread.

Dan, if I knew where you were, I'd buy you a beer too cause you definitely need to lighten up a little.

etc., etc., etc.

That's one of few punk albums I like. It's just so dang good.

"Mature" Replacements just don't ring my bell. They're just songs, y'know? Not bad, not especially good. Just songs, and who needs more of those.

Isn't that it, though? This long discussion has mostly just varied by personal taste and that common problem of 'young man rock passion,' where dumbass young man can't see over his ego (to his mind, quite a large vein! --lmfao) to see that his view is not the only one in the world.

Good call! Now that you mention it it does seem reminiscent of "Don't tell a Soul" era Replacements, when they were patiently plugging away at MTV in the hopes of getting REM big.

Jimmy Fallon (wearing glasses): Cool, Tina.

Tina: That's right, it's... Jimmy! You don't wear glasses!

Jimmy: I-I don't?

Tina: No! What's going to happen next!

(Winonna Ryder runs out)

Winonna Ryder (VERY HOT): One of you is the father of my child!

(shocked looks as they all freeze for the camera. Winonna Ryder cracks up. Scene falls apart)

Oh, and I grew up in and around the Twin Cities, too, so I figure my line of bullshit is just as qualified as anyone else ranting around here.

Virtually from the time they signed to Twin/Tone, the Replacements were hated by many other local musicians, probably from jealousy as much as anything else. Which is the way it's always been up there (or anywhere else on earth, I imagine) and why it's such a pathetic "scene." The same thing happens to every band that sells any records or gains a scintilla of popularity: they get ragged on. The hissing and backbiting for Trip Shakespeare, the Geardaddies, the Jayhawks, even Prince...if a band could fill the main room a couple of nights at the First Avenue, they definitely were too popular for the Twin Town cognoscenti. Time and time again I endured bitching by worthless other bands about how Westerberg sold out, couldn't write good songs, couldn't play for shit, and the worst offense--that he quit drinking and lost his talent with his habit--whenever crawling the racks at the various record stores and clubs around town. Sick.

The Replacements had some great, great moments in their released work, though live they were generally spotty. Westerberg's songs were not groundbreaking or sonically challenging but to refer to The Replacements as representative of the "worst" that the Twin Cities has or had to offer is just plain bullshit. It smacks of the immature jealousy that ruins any potential music scene. And it's all based on the fact that more people bought 'Mats' albums than Walt Mink's. And while I didn't get into all the other bands proffered up by Perry as better than the Replacements, I saw more than a few bad nights by a few of them to know that they were far from perfect. Or more relevant in any way.

The Replacements are a classic.

I'm not at all jealous of The Replacements. I just don't like them. Surely that isn't very difficult to comprehend?

At least, not any more than you are.

It's not that you just "don't like them." It's that you posit that they were the *worst* of what the Twin Cities had to offer. I mean really, you can't think of dozens of other bands who were worse? Or, as I posit, do you just think they represented the nadir of the scene because a) so many people knew who they were and b) so many more people bought their records?

There were and are plenty of reasonable people who think that the Replacements were a dumbed down version of Thin Lizzy or a lazy version of Bad Company. There are also plenty of reasonable people who think that the Replacements had some damn great songs. But you're part of the group who is intent on spinning their success (?) into something much more negative than that, something that the local music scene never needed. If anything, the attention the Replacements brought on to the indie scene in Minneapolis gave a lot of bands deals that they likely never otherwise would have had. The cancer on any scene is resentment, and whether you will deny you had any towards the Replacements, a lot of bands did.

RIP Paul Wellstone.

I freely admit that my stance on The Replacements as put forward in this thread is blatant hyperbole. I'm certain that there are many TC bands I want nothing to do with who are *objectively* (if you can measure that) worse than The Replacements. My issue with The Replacements is that they don't hit any of my emotions or any of my "ooh, that's neat!" buttons. The bands I listed do. I think _Miss Happiness_ is one of the most underrated albums of the 90s, Husker Du were phenomenal, and most of the other groups I listed outside of the Prince Axis are dance/industrial groups whose core audience probably wouldn't have had anything to do with The Replacements, anyway. I mean, the entire focus of Savage Aural Hotbed was performance art featuring kodo drumming, PVC tubing, guitar squalls, woodwind abuse and tricks with rhythm; if that's the type of thing you're looking for in your music, you're going to find The Replacements wildly uninteresting. (Likewise, the first Walt Mink song I heard was "Croton-Harmon", with its super-syncopation and absolutely killer 4/4:7/8 hook between verses; once I heard that, I was ready to dive into the rest of the album full steam.)

So, you can look at my stance from a particular viewpoint and say, "Well, he hates them because he's jealous of their success," but that's woefully inaccurate. It's much closer to "He hates them because he's not at all disposed towards the style of music they embody, but people latched onto it and he had to hear them everywhere he went because of his older brother."

(kidding)

For the record, I think and thought that the Huskers were overrated, and that Bob Mould's ego kept them from being a better band. And, while the Huskers were overrated, I loved them just the same. And since we're playing full disclosure, I will readily admit that the legacy of the Replacements is just as overrated as their live shows were. That hasn't kept them from being one of my favorite all time bands, either. If I had to measure artistic credibility or musical ambition on everything I loved, my record collection would be pretty tiny.

And that's sort of my point, actually. Within every music scene there is snobbery, and more than often than not, this snobbery is directed at bands who encounter success or at the very least, notoriety. On a larger scale--say nationally or worldly, for example--it's not all that destructive to detest the success of, say, Creed and blame it all on the mooks or other knuckle draggers. But on a local level it's quite destructive, especially when virtually any local success that translates beyond the immediate realm brings more attention to acts that normally would never see an audience. Maybe Nirvana was too rockist or too commerical for your taste, but they introduced a lot of kids to the Wipers, the Raincoats, and even Sonic Youth. The Replacements had the same effect on me; without them, I never would have ever bothered with many of the other local bands of the day, whether it was the Suburbs or the Hang Ups or 24/7 Various or any of the other wannabes who never made it. It's hard to imagine AmRep ever having a life at all without the attention the Huskers and Replacements brought to Minneapolis in the mid 80s.

That's why, to read your post, even though I knew it was hyperbole, disturbed me so. It reminded me of when I was younger and living up there and participating in a scene that so clearly measured quality by a lack of quantity in records sold. I'm sure *you* were objectively not interested in whatever the Replacements were doing in those days, but so many others who hated the Replacements did so out of jealousy and little reason else. At least you aren't interested in that style of music. Every other hata I knew based most of their anger on the fact that the Replacements got great ink wherever they went.

I guess the short version is that you, who aren't predisposed to even like music like the Replacements, couched your argument two separate times in the context of how the band represented the Twin Cities. That kinda hurt, and jackasses like me are predisposed to fly off the handle.

BTW, the Suburbs were a great band.

Classic, so ya know. (though Dan's got me doubting some songs on Tim if not Let It Be, which IS perfect - the best rock album evah, goddamnit).

I usually never tell people I like em - statements like "If you never liked the 'Mats (GOD I hate that name) you never liked rock'n'roll" piss me off too - but I adore the seemingly (genuinely?) tossed-off feel of those records, their goofy, un-self-conscious humanity. Let It Be is like a classic Howard Hawks film, or an old issue of Spiderman, or a great Fitzgerald short story: both shallow and strangely deep, timelessly rewarding in a very mysterious way, and very American.

The Black Diamond cover is HI-larious and great IMO. But Let It Be is simply my fave album ever, so I'm kinda biased.

-- Anthony Miccio (anthonymicci...), June 15th, 2003.

You are quite obviously a man with marvelous taste. I only prefer The Clash's s/t and Funhouse to the glorious Let It Be.

Clash and Fun House both make my top ten, Francis, but I think the Mat's side 2 is stronger than the Stooges, and some of Mick Jones's songs on the Clash keep them from upstaging the Mats.

In the movie, two Replacements songs are used by the prom band..

I had this to ask on the ILE thread (no answer yet..)

I was wondering if Michael Stipe used that [Replacements song] because for 20 years he may have been saying that the Replacements were the ultimate teen movie prom band. .. Or was it just that they were looking for some music and decided that "Inherit the Earth" was a good song to use. I'm choosing the former because they used "Skyway" also.

Is this the first ILM hive mind accusation? (Not that I haven't made similar comments from time to time.)

but, um, stipe didn't direct the movie, so he may have had nothing to do with it. or maybe he just suggested it to the director, who was also the writer, who did the writing before stipe had anything to do with it.

but then again the movie really sucked, and the idea of the christian prom band playing "we'll inherit the earth" was one of the only things about it that got even a half-smile out of me.

Yeah that album sounds like shit even though there are some good songs on it. I don't know if they got Huey Lewis to produce it or anything, but it should not be anywhere near anyone's canon. (x-post)

Also I find sorry ma...the trash to be classic. Better than any Ramones album to me, even.

And and and...but hell, I was a white suburban American teenage male in the mid-1980s, my judgment is hopelessly skewed...

Totally. 'sorry ma' was my first placemats album, purchased at Big Star Records, a second hand place that opened in Wimbledon just as i hit 15 or so. The place sold me my first Dinosaur and Husker Du albums too, just as the rise of Grunge piqued my interest in these bands, and got me into OBSESSING about Stevie Wonder and Funkadelic, as opposed to merely being aware that they existed.

But 'sorry ma' is killer. i was 17 or so when i got it, and had the time on my hands to completely immerse myself in it. and, yes, it is 'power trash', a messy speedjag of a record, but there's so much heart to it as well. 'don't ask why' is an *amazing* love/break-up song, while the sense of pig-headed youthful frustration that pervades the album is so killer; and 'johnny's gonna die' is a perfect slice of nihilistic melancholy...

still prefer 'let it be' now, though.

The worship that surrounds them also smacks of the worst sort of Beatles fan, the type of stuff that makes me wanna just sit down and listen to the records by my own damn self, with my own damn thoughts, without any Greatest Of All Time mythos. "Mats," indeed.

Fave story about these guys: My friend Carol (R.I.P.) and I once watched them from a staircase beside the stage at a place called Going Bananas under an ice cream shop in Richmond, Va. Tommy's bass strap broke a few minutes into the show and he called for a shoelace. Carol pulled one of hers out, and he tied everything up after handing her some crumpled ones from his pocket. He sought her out after the show, and they traded back.

TS: 'The Shit Hits the Fans' v. 'Like Flies on Sherbert.'

"The worship that surrounds them also smacks of the worst sort of Beatles fan, the type of stuff that makes me wanna just sit down and listen to the records by my own damn self, with my own damn thoughts, without any Greatest Of All Time mythos. "Mats," indeed."

PHHHHHHHFFFTTT.

The 'Mats were about as classic as classic gets. Their best stuff was so brilliant, so much better than so many other bands of the same genre that they more than made up for their own mediocre stuff.

Take the hatuhz outside in the backyard and let them have their own darn thread!

Totally fucking classic.

Classic even when they sucked.

Classic even when they put out shit.

neverending source of funny stories, too.

Dont trust anyone who doesnt get the Replacements.

The funny thing is, I also grew up near the Twin Cities, and I never had any use for the Replacements until I was in my mid-twenties. One day they just clicked. I'd only heard "Within Your Reach" -- big shout out to the "Say Anything" soundtrack -- and I picked up "Stink" on impulse. I liked it, but it took another year or two before I bought "Let It Be." Then I was hooked. Nowadays, I swap bootlegs and count down until Rykodisc releases the much-delayed Perfect LP.

I have a theory that growing up in the 'burbs sort of immunized me to the local music scene. I thought Limited Warranty was cool, because they were on the radio, but it never occurred to me to venture up Highway 55 to the cities to check out bands. My mistake. It wasn't until I started college (in Saint Paul) that I realized the error of my ways, and by that point the Replacements were old news.

Also, FWIW, Soul Asylum had a nice run there. Hang Time and Grave Dancer's Union were both nice little records, and the Twin-Tone stuff is definitely worth checking out. And that's Dave Pirner yelling at the cops in the beginning of "Kids Don't Follow," so that's already pretty cool.

When I was in elementary, our school had a contest where we had to draw these anti-smoking posters and slogan that we made up....If yours was selected as one of the finalists or winners, you got to go on a field trip to see Limited Warranty play a "Smoke Free Generation" show at the Metrodome! I didn't win.

Hear me cryin' out to you
You said, "Never, never would I leave"
Here's a tear from me to you
And maybe it will make you hear me

I loved you
You didn't feel the same
Though we're apart
You're in my heart
Give me one more chance
To make it real

In a dream you are here
You smile and hold me near
And in my heart I'll pretend
That you are hear again

Hear me cryin' out to you
You said, "Never, never would I leave"
Here's a tear from me to you
And maybe it will make you hear me

I loved you
You didn't feel the same
Though we're apart
You're in my heart
Give me one more chance
To make it real

Give me one more chance
To make it real

That's brilliant! So that's him going "Hey fuck you man!"?

Dan, don't forget about Limited Warranty's classic tune "Victory Line."

Heard the other day that the Twin/Tone albums (up through Let it Be) are going to be released before the year's up as 2cd versions. Even though the bonuses are likely to be stuff the fans have already booted, it'll be great to have the quality upped.

Pinefox - if you're a fan of more polished sounds (you like Lloyd Cole and Prefab Sprout, right?), you might check out the _All For Nothing_ comp from the Replacements' Sire years. _Tim_, the album after _Let It Be_, was their first for Sire.

I think that this Replacements track is the only one I have heard in the years since I first heard a tape of them at university, c. October 1991. I didn't really love that tape. But I think it was the Replacements.

I used to love the 'Mats, but they haven't really aged well for me. Let it Be is one of those albums that's going to have a following amongst high-school juniors forever, but it sounds pretty played out to me now. Shockingly, Soul Asylum's Hang Time actually holds up better. I never really liked Tim, although I think that's a function of the production more than anything else. Stink and Sorry Ma still have some great moments, but (although I would never have said this at the time), I think that Flip Your Wig stands out the masterpiece of this particular twin cities subgenre.

which is why i nominated them on the "bands that have declined with each and every album" thread, or whatever that thread was.

Sorry Ma isn't that great, even in the context of when it came out. A handful of very good songs, but Hootenanny's handful of good songs are actually great.

Pleased To Meet Me is great, it's the apex of Paul's career as far as consistency in writing goes (though I'll never think that the horns on "Can't Hardly Wait" sound good.)

BTW--who knows the release date on the expanded reissues?

I remember the first time I was in the CC and how I'd heard the juke was so kickass and how it was this legendary joint and but I was only there because I was silly drunk and it was 1989 and I was still pretending that the Replacements mattered. Totally a let down, just like OarFolk. They say never meet your heroes because you'll only be disappointed.

The thing about the Mats is that their legend is way better than the reality, which is kinda like above--it's better to experience them when you're young/loaded, and then just not listen to them 15 years (or fuck, 20) after the fact because you will realize that your heroes were not that good. As in, every other band currently in my rearview mirror. They only sound good when I drop all my pretensions and enjoy the salve of nostalgia.

Ah, this store. Which I only know about through MST3K of course.

eh, that may be true for you, but not for me. When I go back to those records I'm still pretty taken with the songwriting and weirdo guitar playing. and the lyrics are sharp, funny, and economical - I don't invest the stuff with the same emotional intensity I did as a teenager, but it isn't just nostalgia that makes me appreciate a completely perfect tune like "If Only You Were Lonely".

IOYWL is so completely awesome. I was listening to it JUST LAST NIGHT.

i like the cc club, but it's weird now that there's no smoking in mpls...smells funny.

Smoking room at a decrepit Motel 6+deep fryer+bathroom cleaner=yum!

From my First Avenue oral history:

Peter Jesperson, Replacements manager: We did a show in the Entry and I remember I tried to put something on the flier that said "rock 'n' roll" and [Paul] Westerberg got pissed at me and said, "We ain't no rock 'n' roll band." I was like, What do you mean you're not a rock 'n' roll band? Of course you are. I finally convinced him to let me use "low-class rock." That was acceptable.

I don't want to be TOO predicktable!

but I do think there's so much 80's rock politics caught up in talking about the Replacements that it's hard to hear them with clean ears

Yeah, anyone remember the Musician cover story circa Don't Tell a Soul? The cover line was something like "The Last Great Rock'n'Roll Band" or something ridiculous like that. I was a massive fan at the time (OK, I still am), but even to me it seemed silly.

BUT...I think they get sold down the river by some people because of all that. They were a lot funnier, smarter and weirder than that whole earnest-romantic-rocker tag gives them credit for. Hootenanny covers more ground in less time than almost anything I can think of, and somehow manages to drop "Within Your Reach" right in the middle, and "Let It Be" is likewise full of left turns. "Tim" and "PTMM" are more conventional "rock" records, obviously, but they're not that conventional, and they're loaded down with track-by-track good-to-great songs. And if you're looking for a Twin Cities guy to lump Westerberg with, I think Craig Finn's a much better match than Bob Mould.

OTM. this song blows me away every time...

I just wish sometimes that I could exorcise the Replacements out of me once and for all. If I could just UNDERSTAND what the hell they did, and then finally let them go. But I continue to try to unravel the mystery, fascinated, spellbound. Well aware of their flaws.

I saw them live in 1985, but I was too young to even understand how important they would seem later.

Gotta also mention "Swinging Party" in the same breath. What a great song. Mabye it's 'cause I lived in Mpls in my 20s, but those echoey plaintive vox take me right back to the grey streets, sometime after the leaves have dropped and before the first frost.

I honestly cannot imagine anyone saying "dud" to this band. Sure, their last, oh, two albums were largely shite (though I still adore "Anywhere's Better Than Here" on Don't Tell A Soul), but everything else if fuckin' gold. Yeah, they unwittingly begat a slew of shitty bands like the Goo Goo Dicks and the so forth, but y'know...what'cha gonna do.

"Take Me to the Hospital" on Hootenanny is also, by the way, fucking perfect.

Great, unteathered, shambolic, genius rock'n'roll with personality and attitude galore. Don't like it? Go listen to Mariah Carey then, you cheese-addicted twits!

(from my new album "WAIT they dont love you like i love you")

I'm usually immune to the "makes me feel old" syndrome, because I'm pretty aware of my age and comfortable with it and I know everyone's experience is relative and subjective and whatever. But still, someone's parents having a cassingle of "I'll Be You"...makes me feel old.

Yeah in retrospect I felt bad I didn't mention that one in my post. I meant it no disrespect.

Honest version: For god's sakes, man what are you waiting for? GET your arse down to a shop NOW! You've got hurricanes down there in Florida, you can't afford to take these kinds of risks! ;)

The thought of cassingles alone makes me feel old.

Their early liner notes were all classic. Sorry Ma features the immortal "written 20 mins after we recorded it."

Westerberg's notes to his recent solo best-of are similarly funny, though significantly crankier.

xero, stop using your ears as ... oh, never mind.

Incidentally: Classic, for Sorry Ma, Stink, and Hootenanny, plus bits of Let It Be, Tim,, and Pleased to Meet Me.

when westerberg meets his fans, some of them go up to him smiling, and leave wiping their eyes. this usually happens because of how deeply, personally his music touched their lives. i've never seen anything like it before in my life.

let it be, motherfuckers.

They are a classic band who wrote mostly brilliant songs with great lyrics. What more is there?

I mean, I know my finger quivers with existential angst just before it hits the "play" button, but I would like to hear of your experiences.

.

.

.

.

.

(ha)

Delivering noise
Real tough boys
And what else have I got
Half-priced drugs
Stolen guitars
When the weather's hot
It's somethin to du
It's somethin to du

LIMITED WARRANTY sounds like the name of Adam Sandler's former band in The Wedding Singer.

So what about this new book?

I want it so bad but i'm gonna wait for the paperback version - it'll be cheaper and easier to read / carry around. I'm reading the Pixies oral history now, anyway, and you can really only read one oral history at a time, right?

But yeah, I'm excited about it.

"And then Bob fell over! Man!"

BAH! I gave in to temptation after all and just bought this book on Amazon. Damn super saver discount gets me every time - also bought that new Shooter Jennings album and the Michael Showalter CD to save on shipping. What a weekend it will be when THAT combo arrives!

Wow, I've got a gift card for Barnes & Noble! I wonder if...

some good extras on here. "If Only You Were Lonely" is easily one of their best tunes.

Agreed

Remasters out on Tuesday!

I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW AND I WONDERED WHEN PEOPLE WERE GOING TO START TALKING ABOUT IT ON THIS BOARD BECAUSE I AM PSYCHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

some b-sides on the 2nd disc of all for nothing/nothing for all that are really fantastic, esp the jungle rock/all he wants to do is fish/date to church retro-trilogy

oh also totally classic for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5CaagwSYGk

invariably makes me smile

it's too late to take pills, here we go. . . .

yeah the lyrics changes + the intro + (most of all) i really dont think ive ever seen a major band so genuinely giddy

"giddy"

by 'genuinely' i meant giddy for reasons that extend beyond probable pre-show drug intake

"probable"

i totally knew you wuz gonna do that

anyway, classic - & que if yr point is they were actually more or less typically like that live id love to see some video links if you got em, ive always imagined their drunk-off-their-asses shows to be a trainwreck enjoyment kinda thing

i love the Replacements, but these albums are fine the way they are. who needs a remaster?

Um... didn't they already remaster their albums a couple years ago?

these have a shitload of bonus tracks i think.

The liner notes of the new editions aren't even that painful.

As long as the guy who wrote the book didn't write them.

Why, are you that unsatisfied with it?

Why, are you that unsatisfied with it?

Ha. Took me a minute, but ha.

haha after a decade of listening to a personalized best-of cassette, I finally decided to actually buy a Replacements album like two weeks ago (an old used copy of Let It Be) and NOW there are new remasters out that I probably should've waited for.

lol, I'm kind of a grumpy dude

Anyone got an opinion these yet?

I didn't think the Let It Be bonus tracks were all that much to write home about, but the "Forgot To Take Out The Trash" bonus tracks were much better and pretty solid. Haven't played Stink or Hootenanny yet.

I do want to say...that out of all the music in the entire world, nothing makes me feel like I'm 13 again like the "Let It Be" album, especially "I Will Dare". I only just managed a few days ago to remember that I actually heard Let It Be when I was 13, not 14. Hell I probably heard that before I even heard Joy Division. I'm serious. Let It Be is the classick of the classick.

Meet you with the vampires.

ALSO EVERYONE KNOWS THAT "ANDROGYNOUS" RULES THE LAND RIGHT UP UNTIL THE TIME "UNSATISFIED" COMES ON AND THEN YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND AS TO BEST SONG ON THIS ALBUM

spin article this month/last month is surprisingly readable. first longform interview with westerberg i've read in a while. he seems to have reached that inevitable stage where he accepts that he'll always be best known for stuff he did a long time ago. also, strong intimations of a "reunion," although that would just mean paul and tommy plus whoever. (chris mars is too busy painting.) but hell i'd probably go see paul and tommy.

Let It Be is just one big, lovely teardrop. Without a doubt an absolute all time classic.Right down to the fucking cover.
They had some erm, 'moments' on other albums too . We know what they are.

Classic.

Bring on the reunion. Why not?

the albums didn't sound fine they way they were, and the remastered stuff that came out a few years ago sounded even worse. I'm told these sound much better and have bonus tracks to boot, so I'll pick up Hootenanny and LIB at least, and PTMM when it comes out

I never had a problem with the production of the mats stuff.Maybe it's my duff hi/low fi
That other huge Minneapolis(sp?sorry) band suffered worse on that front and I'm not talking about Soul Asylum , The Cows or Prince.

Yeah, I don't think I ever thought about the production one way or the other and last time I listened, my old CD of Stink still sounded pretty hot. I mean, I'm sure they could be made to sound somewhat better, but it's hard to imagine it making a huge difference. Nice Strong Arm, on the other hand...

i was talking about The Baby Astronauts ;-)

$16 bucks each at Best Buy for the reissues. Will have to look online instead.

LOOK ME IN THE EYE

Bimble will still be a teenager in the morning. And next year. And the year after that.

Every girl I've ever had an unrequited crush on has liked the Replacements. and Jonathan Richman and the Smiths. They know too well what to do with guys like me. They know too well.

Nothing anyone can do to me on ILX to ruin it when Let It Be makes me feel like a teenager again. Not a thing. Not a damn thing you can do. Forget it.

xpost sorry to hear that Burt. Really, that's horrible. If girls who like the Smiths don't get you, that's bad.

haha, they do "get me", but they know all the ways to make you miserable with the helpful guide of the lyrics. Curse them!

Did the Replacements ever play the sax on stage ? Not like Soul Asylum. they played the sax.

hahahahahaha

"I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour/but heaven knows I'm miserable now"

xpost

One of the "best" performances The Replacements gave was on their first (and only) appearance on SNL (11/23/85). They did "Bastards of Young" and "Kiss Me On the Bus", but the best part was that between songs, all the bandmembers (save Bob, who was wearing a dress) switched clothes. It took a sharp eye to catch it the first time it was on! (I've got the tape.)

http://www.bsideblog.com/images/2008/07/bb1004_0150.jpg

Haha, oops.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2vv9qas.jpg

hahahah waht?

!

this thread just got GOOD.

yes, i'm reviving this thread on purpose

Just downloaded a comp of rarities and it's fucking killing me, these are their fuckin castoffs and they're SO GOOD

"PO Box" should have been on Let It Be it's too fuckin good to be orphaned

I'M THE BOY THEY COULDN'T IGNORE
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE I'M SURE

i've been deliberately ignoring this elephant in the room but

LOOK ME IN THE EYE

― Bimble, Sunday, May 4, 2008 3:26 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark

fuck me

they were my favorite band in high school
whenever i hear paul westerberg's voice it's like hearing an old friend, for real (though i don't hear it much because i listened to all of these albums SO MANY TIMES)

still love singing "shiftless when idle" in the shower a whole hell of a lot

Just downloaded a comp of rarities
link? i'm in need of replacements boots

http://fuelfriends.blogspot.com/2006/03/paul-westerberg-replacements-b-sides.html

it's more b-sides and orphans than bootlegs but it's dope

If Only You Were Lonely = their finest moment

"Shiftless When Idle" is their best song IMO. Diminishing returns as the albums get along in the chronology. I never bought them as more than 19 year old snots and they got further away from that with each passing album. One of the all time greats, though. Classic.

'shiftless when idle' is such a great turn of phrase, and bounces around in my head all the time. the song too.

LL huskers or mats?

mats!

If Only You Were Lonely = their finest moment

nah:

• unsatisfied
• answering machine
• alex chilton
• skyway

srsly imo their best BAND moment is easily unsatisfied, best westerfield moment is answering machine

Saul Westerfield, a great guitarist.

i like unsatisfied, ans machine, alex chltn, skyway and especially if only u were lonely just fine fine fine but they were not not not the replacements' best moments. they were some good paul late-night drunken sad moments. i liked my placemats drunken happy and being an actual band. i'm in trouble, run it, favorite thing and IOU blow all those songs out of the lake. for starters.

I think "I Will Dare" is my quintessential 'Mats tune. Literate and cheeky lyrics with such a lack of faith in their own abilities that a hired gun is brought in on guitar. Too self-effacing to see their own majesty or even believe it's possible. He can't even take the lead in his own lyrics - If you will dare, I will dare.

srsly imo their best BAND moment is easily unsatisfied, best westerfield moment is answering machine

my wife heard me listening to unsatisfied yesterday and said "wow, that's good! what is that song?"

"Favorite Thing" will always be my favorite Mats song.

favorite thing or iou or i won't are prob my ~faves~

"left of the dial" is missing from the list of best songs imo

everybody's seen that full set from 81 on youtube, right? soooo fuckin good, quality ridic amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_W4csFiQx8

yeah that's like one of the greatest thing on all of youtube. and that song in particular is like MY JAM every once in a while (i.e. whenever i've been fucked up jobless)

also now i think of those youtubes every time i'm at the 7th st.

Wow, thanks Hoos!

53 views ?

They've been up on the TwinTone site for years and years. I wish they'd just put it out for suckers like me to buy.

That is amazing footage. What's doubly cool is how timeless they sound. It's almost 30 years old and sounds like it could have come out last week.

wowwwwwwwwwwwww just seeing this now for the first time, thanking u!

is there a youtube playlist for this??

nahh you just gotta follow dude's trail but he has the whole set on his channel on yt

http://www.youtube.com/user/chriss999

Another guy named SquirrelBait also posted them and somebody said they were on the Twin Tone website.

Thanks.

Friend posted this on FB tonight. (Was there really a Replacements/3 o'Clock/R.E.M. triple bill? 11th-grade me would have died.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWwJNm7q2cs&feature=player_embedded

something about 1986 d-bags prancing about brings out the modulation and chorus that's all over the guitar.

^^ More compelling evidence of why "Bastards of Young" was such a great video.

(Was there really a Replacements/3 o'Clock/R.E.M. triple bill? 11th-grade me would have died.)

Yeah, and here's a review of the show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_vRF_prXJs

(So many great clips on their yt channel -- one live one of scratch acid from 1985)

I found a remaindered copy of their Rhino best-of for $2.50 this afternoon. I think I have most everything on there--possibly even everything--but obviously I couldn't pass it up. I love compilations where you get different labels co-operating. Anyway, my only quibbles with the choices would be the omission of "Johnny's Gonna Die," "Go," and "Hayday." Looks like they got everything else that I love. Maybe "Favorite Thing" should be on there too.

they only had one decent song ("Within Your Reach"), and that relied on a drum machine!

o_O @ 9 years ago

Maybe "Favorite Thing" should be on there too

yeah, that one's great

Check out 41 across in Monday's NY Times crossword

Not sure I can access that...I'm going to guess "Stinson," "Hootenanny," or "unkempt."

That quote from nine years ago is pretty funny--I know the Replacements are always the first band I think of when I think of drum machines. Also found this from Chuck six years ago: "Someday maybe somebody will explain to me why "I Will Dare" (which isn't even very catchy!) is considered a great song. But it definitely hasn't happened yet." If someone can goad Chuck to get on here and start arguing with me about the Replacements, it'll be just like one of those Whiney-Deej things, but for old people, and with better manners.

would goad

they only had one decent song ("Within Your Reach"), and that relied on a drum machine!

o_O @ 9 years ago

DTP (Dan Perry) and his goth new wave tastes are not to be trusted!

hey btw i have everything let it be & after, should i get 'sorry ma' & 'hootenany' & 'suck' or just one or a few of those or

Liz Phair (!) said that anyone who's heard "Let It Be" has ended up LIVING the album for about a year afterward.

boom

I don't have their final album, but, for me, everything else is worth owning to one degree or another--there are great songs on every one of them, even Don't Tell a Soul. They vary in overall quality, of course. Of the three you mention, I'd go with Hootenany. I've been listening to this compilation for the past hour and just loving it. I did think of a couple more songs I wish were on there: "Left of the Dial" and "Rock 'n' Roll Ghost." I think they probably deserve a double-album compilation, although a double wouldn't be as consistently great as this one is.

As a fan of a couple of Replacements albums, I was also struck by the demurrals when I joined ILM seven years ago -- I assumed "everyone" liked them. I've evolved enough that I understand those demurrals now. These days I'm apt to question myself whenever I reach for the the-sloppiness-is-part-of-the-charm line of defense, for any band.

The Phair quote is excellent. I spent a certain percentage of 1984 stumbling home drunk and throwing on "I Will Dare." It's miraculous that my copy's still in excellent shape--record collectors make for the most fastidious drunks.

I've never thought the Replacements needed the sloppiness-is-part-of-the-charm defense. I mean, I guess that's there a little bit of that in why I love "I Will Dare," but one thing that makes this compilation so great for me is that it leaves out the "Tommy Gets His Tonsils Out"/"Gary's Got a Boner" side of the band--I didn't like that stuff at the time, and have even less use for it today.

"I guess that there's a little bit..." (Sloppiness is part of my charm.)

"Left of the Dial" is on there--sorry, I must have briefly lost consciousness. This compilation gets better by the second.

I must have briefly lost consciousness.

you've been listening to let it be, haven't u

I feel like DTAS is sorely underrated. It's not a great Mats record, outside of "I Won't," but it's a damn fine late 80s pop/rock record!

I'm a huge fan of everything starting with "Let It Be" but I made a little comp of my favorite stuff from the thrashy early stuff:

From "Sorry Ma":
1. Takin' A Ride
2. Customer
3. Otto
4. I Bought A Headache
5. Johnny's Gonna Die
6. Shiftless When Idle
7. More Cigarettes
8. Don't Ask Why
9. Raised In The City

From "Stink":
10. Fuck School
11. God Damn Job
12. Dope Smokin' Moron
13. Go

From "Hootenanny":
14. Color Me Impressed
15. Within Your Reach
16. Treatment Bound

Since I made this I bought the expanded "Hootenanny" reissue and have warmed up to it much more, but those 3 tracks above are far and away the stand-outs for me.

hey btw i have everything let it be & after, should i get 'sorry ma' & 'hootenany' & 'suck' or just one or a few of those or

― HOOS the master??

Nice mix, GMB. You've gotta find room for "Kids Don't Follow" and "Hayday," though--they're non-negotiable.

Sorry Ma -- hit parade. "shiftless when idle" among my personal theme songs.

All shook down -- didn't love love it when it came out but I was 15, so... Now I get it. Very adult, but muy poignant.

Hayday has that great ants-in- pants thing they do so well. Love that song.

'shiftless when idle' speaks on so many levels to me

As a defender of lots of marooned big production failures from the eighties, I have nothing good to say about Don't Tell Me a Soul besides loving "I'll Be You" and "I Won't": its terribleness has an air of desperation.

I don't remember the album well, but I'll stand up for "I'll Be You" and "Rock 'n' Roll Ghost." I just double-checked the latter to see how it held up, and to me it still sounds great. As a clock-running-down, getting-too-old-for-this song, it reminds me of Lennon's "I'm So Tired" or the Ramones' "Pet Sematary."

I'll defend DTAS because "achin to be" however corny spoke to my 14 year old brain supermega bigtime. My affection may be pure nostalgia but that album was my best friend. I remember listening to side b and hearing the yooooooooow of anywhere is better than here and really -- who doesn't identify with that at 14?? I'll defend it on personal grounds. Shortly after I found/ bought sorry ma, then all shook down came out, and it was a little confusing but I was in love. Nothing mattered.

Nice. Westerberg was such an interesting combination of the 14-year-old kid and this cranky older guy. He was at his best when he split the difference; when he veered too far towards 14 ("Gary's Got a Boner") or cranky old guy (there's some of that on his solo records--along with some good stuff), he wasn't as good. Unless the "Gary's Got a Boner" side of the Replacements was in fact Bob Stinson, in which case another ingenious theory down the drain.

only dud on don't tell a soul is "i won't" because it's just sort of directionless and raucous; rest of it is so completely solid despite production. "talent show," "anywhere's better than here" (sounds like a rip in the earth), "darlin' one"... great fucking record!

Knowing Alfred's history with championing weirdly produced records in the 80s, have always been a big surprised on Don't Tell a Soul! I think it's underrated. That's one corrective I tried to make when reviewing reissues for Pfork.

I adore the first four LPs. I play "Sorry, Ma" most often, "Hootnanny" the least and the other two in equal amounts.

"All Shook Down" was horrible. Worst show I ever saw was them on that disc at Madison Square Garden supporting a bloated Elvis Costello.

But overall, mucho classico.

Sorry Ma is glorious. Every home should have one.

ASD is pretty patchy, the quieter moments are the best, but certainly not the despairing alt-country before alt-country classic that UNCUT etc wants you to believe it is. I don't think the band had anything to do with that scene at all.

Knowing Alfred's history with championing weirdly produced records in the 80s, have always been a big surprised on Don't Tell a Soul! I think it's underrated. That's one corrective I tried to make when reviewing reissues for Pfork.

I'm with on "I'll Be You" -- top ten 'Mats.

*I'm with you

Check out 41 across in Monday's NY Times crossword

awesome for the clue, and doubly awesome for the answer, which instantly evoked the bridge of "alex chilton."

james redd: how did you see this on sunday afternoon/evening? do they post monday's puzzle online that early?

Yes, fcc, Sunday and Monday puzzles both post very early.

We've been over Don't Tell A Soul a lot on ILM, & I'm a defender. "Talent Show" remains an apex: the clear-eyed pursuit of an ambition you know seems silly to others, aware of your shortcomings but also of your talent, & most importantly, trying. When indie takes up with the sad feckless loser, I lose interest; ain't much to rake anyway in the fall.

The guitar sound on that is just so horrible on that album- I remember wanting to kill the Lord-Alge brothers when it came out. Although maybe it wasn't really all their fault, couldn't stand most of the material either- it was some kind of logical progression from the live version of "Can't Hardly Wait" to the bland studio version to the bland studio versions of material that wouldn't have been exciting live anyway.

Just read about this in the liners to the DTAS reissue I got used for three bucks yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5CaagwSYGk

I'm with on "I'll Be You" -- top ten 'Mats.

Yes.

"I'll Be You" wouldn't make my personal Top 10, but I agree that it's excellent. It mentions Surfer Joe, which is neat, and also mentions Canada, which is even neater.

Tom Petty sure liked it enough.

Just read about this in the liners to the DTAS reissue I got used for three bucks yesterday:

I saw that when it aired, the International Rock Awards. Even though the 'mats had been on SNL a couple years earlier, seeing them here on prime-time network TV (I think it was ABC) felt like you'd wandered into an alternate universe. It was one of those occasions where you wanted to excitedly call up every 'mats fan you knew to tell them about this, but then you realized you only knew about three people who even knew who the 'mats were, and only one was a fan.

pw looks like both mick and keef in that video

and not when they were young

kudos to matt dillon for wolf-whistlin btw

(xpost)
The same stylist was buying all three of them shirts for video shoots.

First I've heard of this Replacements documentary (which contains no images of the band members and no music!)

‘People believe in god without ever seeing or hearing him or her,” the director says. “I’d like viewers to believe in the band that way.’

http://www.whatwerewethinkingfilms.com/colormeobsessed/

(which contains no images of the band members and no music!)

After reading that bit, I was wary of even getting interested...but I was sold by the time I finished watching the second clip. I wanna see this asap.

"You gotta listen to these records..."

Yes. Yes, you do.

It does look good, but not having any music, that's a drag. I don't really understand why--that couldn't have been the director's decision, and is the band and/or the record label waiting for somebody else to come along and make a different, better documentary? I like seeing that Jack Rabid's an actual person--always loved that name.

I like seeing that Jack Rabid's an actual person--always loved that name

He's not just an actual person, he's a really cool guy to bullshit about music with. For hours and hours. And then he'll start in on baseball.

He's also a google hound. I wrote some nice words about The Big Takeover on my livejournal several years ago, which I figured only a few people would read, and he got in touch with me just to say thank you.

Even in the interview clip, he comes across as someone you'd enjoy talking to.

Metal Mike Saunders picks "dud," via email:

Whatever Happened to Fun by CANDY (polygram @1985) beats the crap out of any dumb song by the Replacements
Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:27 AM
From: "Mike Saunders"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsFsh5MC_xs

CANDY Whatever Happened to Fun @1985 (Mercury/Polygram)

there's some kind of "westerberg vocal sound" or phrasing going on near the end of this song/single, which reminded me that i have my life-long yearly quota due, to talk shit/diss on that hopeless band from minneapolis at least once per calendar annum.

(( i stumbled across this 1985 light-rotation MTV video (the same MTV status as Precious Metal's faux-video cribbed largely from the BAD GIRLS B-movie-or-worse, for poor-choice first-single "Bad Girls." which i saw the last 30 seconds of exactly twice, planting the group's name vaguely in mind and resulting in instant-name-recognition the minute i saw the album in gregg turner's "unplayed promos pile" sometime the next winter)))
the Candy video on MTV? nah, never even saw the last ten seconds of it ever.

"what did the Replacements ever do to you, mike? didn't they have
enough problems to begin with without you piling on?"

oh, i'll tell you. i will be glad to tell you about how these chumps robbed me of six dollars plus subway money.

Summer 1983, i took the ONLY "full two weeks" time off that i ever was allowed during the entire twenty (21 actually) full-time years of the "accounting manager/chief accountant" career, 1978-1999.

this second week of which in July 1983 was the "no-budget (same as the church marriage -- 100% no-cost, everything. and there WAS a legal priest, and a couple rolls of film for a camera, and uh, i can't remember if anyone remembered to bring a cake. but there were at least 50 to 100 local northwest Massachusetts residents there just in case there was free food, which there was) marriage/honeymoon" (that's right, combined with the marriage saturday in the middle of the trip).

so we went back to boston (on the bus!) (or train, whichever)at the midpoint of this trip. (the marriage was in the ex-wife's home town, far upstate northwest, North Adams (maybe 20 miles north of Pittsfield) and up the buttend of witch country (not to worry, the wife i was teaming up with was descended from white witches, thank god for small favors).

SO: thatsecond week, we're crashing back down in boston at kenne highland's girlfriend's place or whereever/whatever it is.

it's right near the subway line just a few miles west of downtown Boston, so on wednesday night i coughed up the subway fare and RAT venue's door price to see (for the first time), who? ohh yeah.

the Replacements (long before college radio started pushing them with the I Will Dare (? i think that's its name) album a year later. i really like two, maybe three cuts on (the otherwise boring) SORRY MA album, that's it, so it's not like i expect a whole lot. i just want to hear those two (or three) songs played like they sound on the record.

nah, i get waay less than that for my hard earned subway money (and weeknight cheap-Rat-door-price).

these guys are stone cold sober, and they still can't play their way out of a paper bag. no, make that a paper bag that's already halfway torn at the seams. the drummer is ZERO, less than nothing, i'm not entire convinced he's amongst the living, the dude's barely awake. i mean he's tapping his snare like it's Strawberry Shortcake day at the girls' school kindergarten. they get to that mike's-favorite-replacements-track, lead cut "Taking A Ride" (which rocks like crazy on its album, and the leadoff track too).

oh NOW i'm pissed. this hopeless wanktarded drummer doesn't do/can't do even ONE of the drum rolls that're all over the recording.

so i decide to lend this band's bandleader some words of encouragement. i go up front further and sit my butt down on the floor, right in front of Westertoierd/whoever, center mike. i mean he could touch my head with his hippie shoes. there's no one even ten feet near me, in any direction.

"play some Circle Jerks songs, asshole!" hahahahaah. inbetween songs. hahahahahahah no one but me and Wester-fuck can hear this. his band can probably barely play a decent Louie Louie, so you know that he knows that Circle Jerks songs are to his band like free jazz/Coltrane is to me at my 60's ringo/beau brummels-size drum kit.

eventually he must realize how bad his band sucks, because he gets that "oh man, kill me now" look in his eyes -- hahahah i win i win i win, do i get my free box of Dubble Bubble now? LA punk rock on vacation making friends? -- right, about the third time i lend him, free of charge, this eloquent piece of quite touching, well-thought-out philosophical inspiration.

after they turn "Customer" into something James Taylor would have been embarrassed to put his name on (as a live performance), i leave maybe ten minutes before the set is over.

kenne highland the next day: "dude i could have told you that band sucks!" apparently no one in boston likes them. well, outside of maybe one-third of the 75 (max) people in that weeknight venue's dead-as-a-doornail Rat crowd. minus another five or six who probably tried to get their money back.

and yeah i saw them (just as part of a social evening with a handful of people) one year later back home (at Berkeley Square), and they were even worse (when they willfully mangled Black Diamond by KISS, i had to be restained from chucking the nearest glass beer bottle from the back of the house).

worst. fucking. band. ever.

ok, happy now, my yearly quota has been met!

now to go annoy Aerosmith fans in 1976, with my KISS Army "rules, your band drools" propaganda kit (like any door-to-door religious zealot).

Whatever Happened to Fun by CANDY (polygram @1985) beats the crap out of any dumb song by Buffalo Tom/Goo Goo Dolls

Bait taken, problem fixed.

Ironic, by the way, that Candy also has a direct connection to Guns N Roses.

That post isn't even funny.

of course it is, he says "hahahah" 3 times

lol

I Will Dare (? i think that's its name)

classic

I'll take the bait also. That Candy song is better than alot of Angry Samoans songs too (and I will take Replacements songs over many that Metal Mike's Samoans did also). Just cuz Metal Mike Saunders says something, doesn't mean it is automatically worth repeating. Great, he knows Kenny Highland

Suddenly strikes me how much "Anywhere's Better Than Here" sounds like Darkness-era Springsteen

That was my jam in 9th gr.

heard rumor that Westerberg coaches Little League (picturing Walter Matthau)

Also totally reminds me of the moment when I bought that tape -- I played the first side and was kinda underwhelmed, but then I turned it over and it was quiet for a few seconds and then YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW and I knew I had made the right decision to buy it. 1990, my 2nd semester of 9th grade.

The end.

heard rumor that Westerberg coaches Little League

Well at some point most of us do grow up. Just a bit. Enough to take on some responsibility.

I remember reading an interview w/PW around the time of Suicaine... where he talked about his neighbor's kids having a garage band, and how he didn't have the heart to tell them to "Turn that crap down!" when they rehearsed.

TURN THAT SHIT OFF

If you don't love the 'mats, you never loved rock and roll. Lester Bangs, in his famous article on the Clash, wonders why he looks to art for salvation, and thinks that it was maybe something he once glimpsed for a moment, in the corner of a flashbulb. The replacements are that thing, and are that moment. Hootenanny through Pleased To Meet Me are some of the most brilliant and visceral albums I own. Let It Be and Tim are the two most anthem-packed albums ever produced.
And if you never needed an anthem, you never needed rock and roll.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, February 14, 2001 8:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^Man is this one of the corniest posts of all time. I got an anthem, it's not very good, and somebody usually butchers it before every fucking sporting event i go to. "looks to art for salvation he saw in a corner of a flashbulb"???????what the fuck are you talking about?

I understand it's over a decade old so I'm not anticipating a response.

Another gem: "The replacements are that thing, and are that moment." So are they a thing, or a moment? for a moment, they sure look like four pretty ugly guys.

hey bill: you suck.

but it will be ok.

how's that for a response

Wester-fuck

LOL

'We'll Inherit The Earth'' sounds like Westerberg trying to write ''We Didn't Start The Fire''

Before it existed, obv

It was after?
I think?

"achin to be" is the shit

jammed "little mascara" a while back... i'd been underrating Tim for too long.

what's the story behind the LP name "Tim" anyways?

I remember reading an explanation for the title back when this came out but old man me can't remember it, and my quick google search did not prove helpful.

'little mascara' IS a really underrated track!

^thirded, those verses are godlike

hey bill: you suck.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 9 August 2011 22:10 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

2nded

thirded.

Tim is named after Tim the Enchanter from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Why? I have no idea.

mr. snrub & bill magill

That Sterling post would be unobjectionable except for the first sentence. I mean I understand its hyperbole, but still, it's kind of annoying to assume that everyone has to have the same "corner of a flashbulb" experience that you do. Different flashbulbs for different folks. I like the Replacements but they've never been like one of my favorite bands.

For anybody who's missing it, the "corner of a flashbulb" bit is a actually a line from the Lester Bangs Clash piece Sterling is talking about, not just Sterling waxing drunkard.

Oh. Does Sterling still blog or ever post here anymore?

For anybody who's missing it, the "corner of a flashbulb" bit is a actually a line from the Lester Bangs Clash piece Sterling is talking about, not just Sterling waxing drunkard.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:28 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's still a crap line. Don't care if Lester Bangs, Abe Lincoln or Jesus Christ said it.

what if ALL THREE of them said it

what if Tony Iommi said it

It's still a crap line. Don't care if Lester Bangs, Abe Lincoln or Jesus Christ said it.

― You're a notch, I'm a legend (Bill Magill), Thursday, August 11, 2011 5:41 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

God it must be so fucking exhausting being such an iconoclast, Billy, how do you handle the weight of the world likethat?

I'm just gonna stop, cause it occurs to me that your obnoxiousness isn't a thing that ends.

his heart could use some glasses amirite

I don't know why I'm getting all knives out about this--I just feel like killing your idols is a little dated.

forget it, hoos. it's bill magill. *chinatown music*

what if Tony Iommi said it

― Richard Nixon's Field of Warmth (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, August 11, 2011 1:42 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

then it would be utter brilliance of course.

forget it, hoos. it's bill magill. *chinatown music*

― king of torts (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:12 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I agree with this. I certainly don't take myself very seriously, either.

You would think people would be used to rhetorical hyperbole by now

THEY GOT NO WAR TO NAME US

or is it "ain't got no war to name us"?

whatever

Am I the only one who likes Tim much more than Let it Be?

no tim is the best, slightly grey production aside

yeah Tim has pretty much everything that the replacements do so well.

I don't like Tim much at all. In the bottom 3 'Mats records for me.

Ooooo, EZ, you disappoint me. Care to elaborate?

It took me awhile to get into Tim. "Here Comes A Regular" still sounds a bit too maudlin.

Isn't it supposed to, though? That's the point, it's a sad state of affairs.

I've always thought that much of Tim sounds like they are trying too hard to make a "Replacements record". There is good stuff on Tim, but too little of the bratty spark of the albums that preceded it. However, I'm one of those weird fans that think Hootenanny is the best thing they ever did, and that All Shook Down is the best of the Sire records.

yeah Tim has pretty much everything that the replacements do so well.

― tylerw, Thursday, August 11, 2011 6:33 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

^ this.

Unfortunately, "choosing a good producer" is not something the Replacements generally did well. I love this record to bits, but the dated production has dimmed some of its brilliance over the years.

Isn't it supposed to, though? That's the point, it's a sad state of affairs.

It doesn't hit the cylinders like other "pitiful" songs like "The Grand Tour".

It's not supposed to hit cylinders. The lack of cylinder-hitting is the entire subject of the song. Dude in "The Grand Tour" is all over-the-top, omigod I've lost someone. "Regulars" is a guy who deliberately keeps himself from having much to lose.

Anyway, came on this thread to post this, because I enjoyed it. I don't have any particular reason to love Tommy, but I do anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7eWEafLU7A

<3

And Tim was the first album of theirs I bought, so it's hard to be objective about it. I've always loved it, and I even love its bright, garbled sound, but I understand complaints about the production. It doesn't sound quite like the big rock album they thought they were making (which Pleased to Meet Me does, I think), it sounds like something else. I just really like it.

It doesn't sound quite like the big rock album they thought they were making (which Pleased to Meet Me does, I think)

yes

cf 'here comes a regular,' which would have been a very different and less good song on tim imo

Not trying to read the rest of the thread right now but the video jesse malin just posted is awesome.

Always wondered if Johnny Thunders got that title from a Honeymooners episode.

Had some production problems with Tim back in the day but I learned to enjoy and accept what at first seemed to be its off quality and now I like it, the same as with Marshall Crenshaw's Field Day.

i mean i sort of got over my production issues when i realized just how slick 'dont tell a soul' was, like

ok 'pleased' is slick at moments

its not so slippery i could slide on it

i'll live with it

Yeah what HOOS just said

'here comes a regular,' which would have been a very different and less good song on tim imo

But it was on Tim.

woops lol i meant 'nightclub jitters'

I love Tim and the strong numbers on PTMM compensate for the run of boring rockers, in which I can hear a band falling out of love with rockers ("Shooting Dirty Pool," "Red Red Wine" and whatever else stands in the way of "Skyway").

The band was falling out of love or the songwriter was? Whatever the answer, without Bob Stinson's idiot-savant magic, those rockers didn't add up to much

what sort of crazy person doesn't like 'red red wine'

Big mistake recording PTMM as a three piece IMO

The band was falling out of love or the songwriter was?

Both!

what sort of crazy person doesn't like 'red red wine'

The sort of crazy person who thinks Westerberg sucked as a lead guitarist.

Big mistake recording PTMM as a three piece IMO

― Master of Treacle, Monday, August 22, 2011 10:50 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

What choice did they have? They didn't have time to break in a new lead guitarist, and Westerberg wailed -- I love Bob Stinson, but I don't know that he could've negotiated the "Alex Chilton" solo as well as Westerberg did. The one post-Bob album they did as a 4-piece was a step (or two) down from PTMM.

The "Chilton" solo is the best on the album – agreed.

"IOU" and "Alex Chilton" are better rockers than anything on Tim.

So Glen Campbell covered "Sadly Beautiful" by the Replacements. I forget what Replacements album that is on. Westerberg wrote a new song for Campbell's upcoming release.

All Shook Down, I think? I will have to check it out.

Yep, it's on All Shook Down. Wait, Glen Campbell covered it? Mind blown, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddX3jVQV3U

idk if any of yall give a fuck about lucero, but this cover of 'if only you were lonely' that i just stumbled on makes me pretty happy

http://grooveshark.com/s/If+Only+You+Were+Lonely/3JH8yn?src=5

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/paul-westerberg-tommy-stinson-consider-replacements-reunion-20110822

In 2006, Westerberg and Stinson reunited the Replacements to record two new songs for a compilation LP. Session drummer Josh Freese played drums, though Mars did contribute background vocals. "From time to time we'll get together and jam just for fun," says Stinson. "We do it without any sort of expectations or anything. We didn't break up in any sort of a nasty fashion. There was no dispute or anything. We just kind of walked way from it. I'm not so sure if there's any point in really revisiting it necessarily."

And let's be clear, that song was pretty awful.

Tommy Stinson – who currently plays bass in Guns N' Roses and Soul Asylum
still so weird

If it were anybody else it might be but in this case not that weird.

Why don't more bands cover this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EonYQxlpLfI&feature=related

afghan whigs covered that once when i saw them and the crowd went nuts

Think I saw Austin local legend Michael Hall cover that one once at The Hole In The Wall and it went over pretty well.

When I heard that the Goo Goo Dolls covered that, I thought, surely they got that from the the Replacements

Didn'y they cover the Cross as well?

Soul Asylum did "The Cross" as part of "James at 16 - Heavy Medley" on a 12-inch B-side. Don't think Replacements ever did it.

One of my favorite Replacements covers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKpmpe6ysEY

This - a group of tricenarians (well, maybe except for Stephen King on the bass) playing a set in front Sam's Italian Pizzeria while families stroll across the plaza, listening to the haunting tunes of a 25-year-old song about suicide. "She's trying to be reached on her CELLphone…."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fPFA7YdXz4

"We're CERTIFIED ANGUS from Lansing. Happy Mothers Day!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a90Eq7gqCbk

welp

The singer comes across as a douche, but it's completely possible that they're the second- or third-best Mats cover band in Mid-Michigan.

and arguably the only one specializing exclusively in "pleased to meet me" covers

haha

Mats cover bands each need their own version of Bobby Stinson

wear footie pajamas onstage and you're halfway there