Should the question/answers format of ILE be changed to the problem/solutions format ?

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I would like the "ask a question" link at the top of the page to be changed to "State your problem as a question"
and have a "new solutions" link instead of a "new answers" link.

It wouldn't change a thing for the silly threads and for the serious discussions the difference it would make would be considerable. By putting the users in the right frame of mind, it would optimize the chances of concrete and useful results to their problems.
The "questions" of interest to me are really "problems".

Questions are interrogations, they bring insignificant/entertaining opinions and when we are dealing with a complicated problem and fail to formulate it as such consequently people "answer" without even knowing what the problem is, everything unnecessairly degenerates into a mishmash, wich can be interesting but can also turn out as a waste of time. We should reduce the noise by encouraging the development of, as Deleuze put it, the art of questions and problems.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Art Fleming to thread!

― Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

No. That's a terrible idea. Have the questions aren't even questions. They sure as hell aren't problems.

― Millar (Millar), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Reid Fleming to thread!

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The threads I start could only be considered problems in the sense that I don't have a problem with you wearing boater hats but I have a little problem with you not wearing boater hats.

― Larcole (Nicole), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:17 (twenty-two years ago)

No. That's a terrible idea

Come on, the only thing terrible about this would be a minor change of habit for the eye.

Have the questions aren't even questions. They sure as hell aren't problems

That's right, as I said "It wouldn't change a thing for the (most "questions") threads".

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I ponder this.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

it would make more sense to change "ask a question" to "start a new thread" which i also think is unnecessary

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"start a new thread" gets us away from the "question" problematic, is friendlier to multiplicity but doesn't challenge users to use philosophy in their daily lives, wich I think our culture needs.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's just change the format to "Boondoggles" and "Watermelons"

― Millar (Millar), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:30 (twenty-two years ago)

thread title in question format shockah

more importantly, can someone do something about the horrendous "Affiliated to Freaky Trigger"?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

It doesn't do anything to change society's rejection of the boater hat.

― Larcole (Nicole), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

can we change ilx's name to the "take a question, leave a question jar"?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

use philosophy in their daily lives

frankly i can thoroughly live without this

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

electric sound of jim, what Deleuze meant meant by philosophy is simply this: formulating problems and inventing concepts to understand them and to solve them.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

(jurisprudence would be it's legal equivalent, anyone knows more about this?)

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Larcole there might be a problem there but personally I don't know...
Who knows, maybe this boater hat problem-to-be will enthusiast someone as much as, I don't know, the ritournelle problem?
tra la la...

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(tra la la as in "tra la la, I'm staying in the territory of philosophy")

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I think this all just proves ya'all are NOT part of the solution.

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally do I sound like that or..

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

... or I'm too antisocial to get it?

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

what is my problem? :-)

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I surmise that your problem is that you have yet to realize that your disco needs you.

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

so the subliminal impact of the words "problems" and "solutions" is going to effect real change?

― Aaron A., Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that Sébastien's idea is excellent, but it needs one minor modification: The format should not be problem/solutions but solution/problems. "Ask A Question" would be changed to "Propose A Solution" and it would have a "New Problems" link instead of a "New Solutions" link. The thread title would be a solution, and in reply everyone would create problems appropriate to that particular solution. So a thread title - the proposed solution, that is - would be something like "Peach Compote," and we would all come up with problems that it would solve, such as "What should I wear to my daughter's wedding?" or "What weapon of mass destruction should we develop next?" and so forth. In this way, each thread solves many problems, rather than just one.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

iljeopardy

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course! New problems arise all the way, this is a characteristic of "being in a motion", wich is the right way to live.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

(obv my last post was to Frank since electric sound of jim was, euh, a bit funny but redundant somehow even)

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe it's a good idea, who knows? as pointed out several times, it doesn't really change things for the many threads whose titles are not proper questions anyway. for example: overthinking things

― ron (ron), Thursday, 31 July 2003 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

let's do it!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 31 July 2003 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

you could start a new "Bizarro ILE" board

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 31 July 2003 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

you could start a new "Bizarro ILE" board

The obvious consequence to this would be that the current formula wouldn't change...

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:29 (twenty-two years ago)

can you please state your arguments for exactly what benefit your plan would have to your average ILx user? so far I'm at a loss.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:31 (twenty-two years ago)

frank's answer = genius

(hi frank!)

― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:32 (twenty-two years ago)

hopefully you'd start thinking in ways that are more like his

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:33 (twenty-two years ago)

bingo

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:33 (twenty-two years ago)

haha!

― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:44 (twenty-two years ago)

thread title in question format shockah

Yes, the difficulty I had with the original idea right there, I guess, makes echo to the difficulty I have on the "Novelty, cultural currency, social networks and you" thread; I made the current thread to find a solution to the meta-problem I exposed so I'll be able to say what I want to say on the other thread (wich will be very nice if I can pull it off). Read "should the question/answers format of ILE be changed to the problem/solutions format?" as "the last question of ILE". Hopefully from now on people will propose solutions.

"I have an excellent quetion" vs "I have an excellent solution", it's not even a fite.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ahem, "excellent question" thank you very much.

electric sound of jim, I wrote my last post before reading your question but I think that it happens to answer it, isn'it?

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Dammit, just leave the shit alone. It ain't hurtin' nobody.

― Texas Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 31 July 2003 06:50 (twenty-two years ago)

For real. To propose the idea of changing the format of ILE seems even more self-serving than most of the things I post here. And that's pretty bad.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 31 July 2003 06:52 (twenty-two years ago)

(I just realized how self-serving my last post was... God, will it ever end?)

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 31 July 2003 06:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Compulsory citizenship v. Apathy FITE

(I'm trying to analogize FK's thing up there to something I learned in trial practice last week. Time to go home.)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 31 July 2003 06:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I made the current thread to find a solution to the meta-problem I exposed so I'll be able to say what I want to say on the other thread (wich will be very nice if I can pull it off)

What in the name of jebus is stopping you from saying it on the other thread now?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 31 July 2003 09:07 (twenty-two years ago)

This is possibly the most anally-retentive thread ever.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 31 July 2003 09:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Wearing peach compote to a wedding = SO 90s!!

― dave q, Thursday, 31 July 2003 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

For real. To propose the idea of changing the format of ILE seems even more self-serving than most of the things I post here. And that's pretty bad.

This is a cheap shot. I won't go there, 4real.

What in the name of jebus is stopping you from saying it on the other thread now?

Woah là Andrew give me a break please :-)I've been thinking about that other thread for days now and to me it's not that easy to propose a solution elegant enough to allow me to visit the territory of knowledges that I think are concerned. I'm in vacation till the 10th, I think I'll be able to post within this timeframe.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

take off the singlet, you cunt.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 31 July 2003 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I Love Everything

― Millar (Millar), Thursday, 31 July 2003 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

RJG I don't know what you mean exactly but please calm down with the verbal abuse.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

''frank's answer = genius''

frank must post more.

I like this idea but i doubt it will happen.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 11:06 (twenty-two years ago)

On ''frank's answer = genius'' , as I said I agree.
To my honor I said somehting similar in the past on a couple of occasions :
"You took the time to eloquently frame a problem, have you tried to spend at least as much time on it's solution? share the results of your cognitions. If you are blocked after searching, then network to find the right people that will able to answer your questions.
this is the kind of culture i wanna help to build."

Why something like this didn't crossed my mind this time around?
I didn't saw it. Also, it is shamefull of me to say but his post made me realize I'm a bit disullusioned with people nowadays, I would not have dared to be arrogant enough to force everyone to propose a solution to their problems but not that long ago as I've shown, I would not have surprised myself to do so. Fortunately for me his post made me do a victory dance as soon as I finished reading it, that happened to shrug off that sticky conservative frame of mind :-)
It's hard to be a good ~~seller~~ communicator without being sticky or come across as ally said, as "I love to force my views on other people". To me, how to live the way one chooses to without having to change the world or convert the people around them is an interesting digression that will deserves a, ahem, solution thread of it's own. Eventually. I have another solution to propose in 24h so this one will have to wait.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I think SC makes a good point, and we're better for being exposed to it, but it's up to the individual ILX0R to decide whether to put it into personal application...changing the architecture or terminology of the site isn't necessary.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

please calm down with the verbal abuse

CUNT! CUNT! CUNT! CUNT! CUNT!

(wow, that felt good)

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

CUNT! CUNT! CUNT! CUNT! CUNT!

Taken as true that I have a female reproductive system, what does it mean? I automaticaly am submissive to the arguments of the real rhetoricians who are males therefore am an eternal loser, that would be the proper deconstruction isn'it?

Anyone cares to do something about this problem? (not my changing of sex back to male, the troll thing)

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

There's a difference between trolling, and being silly and childish.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Caitlin how can anyone hate Sebastien???!

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

there is a difference between being silly/childish and being out of line. Some people are great at it but you, in this case anyway, lacked of what it takes to pull it off: style/charm.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Really? Most children I know don't have either, especially when they're being silly.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I won't add noise to this thread or any other threads by answering to your posts until I decide you have style/charm.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I found caitlin's pottymouth to be charming, in context.

RJG, I have no idea about.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't quite get what's so insulting abt sebastien's suggestion. its alright for him to make it. and it may or may not be taken, and that's that.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

RJG has the charm of billy joel.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

And surely you must appreciate the impulse that, on being told that you must do something that you don't care about, suddenly makes not doing that a matter of high importance?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Sébastien Chikara --
Please post more threads about transhumanism/AI/nanotechnology!

― Dale the Titled (cprek), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

RJG has the charm of billy joel.

And better hair!

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

never seen it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

He's the one lighting a fag.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

good hair.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't ruin my made up good memories of billy joel please.
For a while in '99 I was a public phone seller wearing disposable hawaian shirts and billy joel was the model for my punky ongoing identity. (real life results may have varied)

Andrew I might have been slightly biaised on calum(ny), should have thought that after all he is just like the characters of greek plays: living up to his name...(sorry) now might be the time to use my fast as an excuse: 5 without food, going on feeling strong w00t. (note to self: please stay focused on the real matter at hand and stop chatting, a little silence never killed anyone ok? :-)

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

RJG = C. Thomas Howell

― Sommermute (Wintermute), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

What's going on?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

a little silence never killed anyone ok?
EXCEPT INTERWEB MENTALIST BULLETIN BOARDS

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

And surely you must appreciate the impulse that, on being told that you must do something that you don't care about, suddenly makes not doing that a matter of high importance?

This is why I don't tell people to get the fuck off (or ban anyone on slsk), even if I might get mad in a moment of weakness and hope they would, altho like it's contrary, it could be a good thing if they did, only to come back (or not)because I might not understand how somehting that I don't like can be useful to me at the moment, but it doesn't mean I won't understand later / find a use for it when I'll encounter the problem that needs it. It is an interesting conflict when what I percieve as this disagreable part of the multiplicity clash with the sensibilities of my elective affinities. Interesting set of problems there...

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

good one Alan

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

What did RJG do to be compared to C. Thomas Howell??? This is an unimaginable act of cruel savagery.

― Larcole (Nicole), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Perhaps you should change the links to 'add mentalism' and 'new cockfarmery'.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I once heard someone compare RJG to Fame Academy muppet David Sneddon. This is surely far worse?

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The thing is, when this thread will get out of sight both on the "I Love Everything" link and the (currently) "New Answers" link, the new people (to say the least) won't have much chance to be exposed to this idea therefore won't even have the possibility to chose if they want to put it in application or not.

I think we need to change the links because the current ones are producing noisy cultural objects, correcting this requires a minor change of habit and that comes with a period of adaptation; people need to be exposed to the idea for some time to get 'round to it/ be inspired by the examples of fellow users then naturally join in, not giving it a second thought after a short while.

teeny, in case the 12 foot lizards are thinking like you and do not deem necessary to change the architecture or terminology of the site, let me propose a "plan b": having a good heart in my bad fortune by still wanting users to avoid the problems that I have demonstrated, I would propose to at least mention this idea in a clear and concise fashion in the faq.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

How about we put a question in the FAQ saying "Does my thread need to be in question and answer form?"

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

or "What is your problem?"?

― chris (chris), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread answers itself: Not everyone agrees on what is a problem, but everyone is willing to consider a question.

Problems suggest a propulsive force towards solutions: ILX is not currently a workshop. I understand that may be what you want: you'll probably have to exist as a strand/current inside ILX.

Also, you're getting pretty prescriptive for an anarchist.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Sebastien another solution is to use the make-new-board function for a more problem-centred forum.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

What did RJG do to be compared to C. Thomas Howell???

RJG does look like CTH in that particular photo. In picpeeps6.php he doesn't though.
(BTW who is that bored-looking lass sitting next to him? And is the Calum in picpeeps18.php the ILX Calum?)

― Sommermute (Wintermute), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

A question in the FAQ saying "Does my thread need to be in question and answer form?" would be the right way to go @ the execution of my "plan b" but as I said I don't think it is the optimal solution... :-)

Not everyone agrees on what is a problem, but everyone is willing to consider a question.

Frank's idea is to come up with different problems to understand the original *intrinsically flawed* solution a bit better. Not agreeing on what is a problem is the point of his idea I think.

Also, you're getting pretty prescriptive for an anarchist.

I prescribe everybody not to drive their bikes in barrage of nails because their ride will become all wobbly , this doesn't have anything to do with anarchism isn'it?

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Short answer: no.
Long answer: this tiresome thread.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

ILX is not currently a workshop. I understand that may be what you want: you'll probably have to exist as a strand/current inside ILX.

Sebastien another solution is to use the make-new-board function for a more problem-centred forum.

It could catch-on, at best people would get in and out of the "workshop" territory just like people talk about film and music in ile when it is needed. I'll have to meditate on this till I know what I think.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

can someone e-mail me when this thread finally disappears up its own arse?

― chris (chris), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

How would a birthday thread be formulated?

How would a what are you listening to thread be formatted?

FAP thread? FAP pictures?

What do you mean by noise, and what is wrong with it? I personally don't use ILX to be deep and meaningful.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

exactly my point Jel, this thread reads like a badly run team-building workshop.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

How would a what are you listening to thread be formatted? (Beyone the obvious, that is)

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

jel, consider this answer:

"maybe it's a good idea, who knows? as pointed out several times, it doesn't really change things for the many threads whose titles are not proper questions anyway. for example: overthinking things
-- ron (ohronn...), July 31st, 2003 12:58 AM. (ron) (tracklink)
"

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

RJG does look like CTH in that particular photo. In picpeeps6.php he doesn't though.
(BTW who is that bored-looking lass sitting next to him?

She's called Carey. Most of the Glasgow ILX people know her.

And is the Calum in picpeeps18.php the ILX Calum?)

Nope.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you mean by noise,

this:
(...)when we are dealing with a complicated problem and fail to formulate it as such consequently people "answer" without even knowing what the problem is, everything unnecessairly degenerates into a mishmash, (...)

and what is wrong with it?

this:
(...)(on everything unnecessairly degenerating into a mishmash)(it)can be interesting but can also turn out as a waste of time.

I personally don't use ILX to be deep and meaningful.

I'm totally cool with this :-)
You know, I removed this part from my last post:
"oh, a quick objection: starting a new problem-centred forum might help to separate the serious from the silly, wich I would like to avoid. There is already a perfect multiplicity in movement at ile, it should be all it can be. Ok, I'm off for a couple of hours 4real.
p.s. this thread made me very happy thanks to the people who posted constructively

on this note, I really must go out for a couple of hours now.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to take you out, sometime, sebastien.

ideally for at least a couple of hours.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

solutions seem to not be that hard to come by. Acting on them, however, is the difficult part.

i know the solutions to many of my short-term problems(working out more, having a budget, moving out of this fucking state), yet it is either the willpower to do what i need to do, or remembering to actually do it. Being both undisciplined and chronically absent-minded has prevented me from achieving more, methinks.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 31 July 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Personally, I favour a solution of ethanol (and various flavourings) in water.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 31 July 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Zut. I'm still here.
Kingfish I'll think about what you said.
Before reading your post I was writing that I think some solutions, when envisaged as total system, seem to be hard to come by, so much in fact that it can keep one from posting at all.
I'm writing a solution to this that will include stylistic and conceptual recommendations to formulate a proper solution.
Of course this post won't be a "total system" per se, it will produce a lot of problems.
One of it's major point will be: write your solution at the limits of your becoming and of your knowledge, without lying to yourself or the others because this is the best way to go at it. It is sublime to see the painting or the sculpture of a master left unfinished because ve died while working @ it, to see the raw will to power in formation stopped by an accidental limit. Equivalently when writing your solution, give it all you got and know when you have reached the sublime point of your epistémé limits and post. Only you can stop yourself and post when you feel you can call it a day: it will save time and energy for everyone, you first. Or somehting along those lines. (I'll formulate it not to sound like a deathist obv).

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 31 July 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

can someone e-mail me when this thread finally disappears up its own arse?

You have a different understanding from me of the phrase "up its own arse" if you imagine that this is not exactly where it started.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 31 July 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I think everyone is being mean to Sébastien.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 31 July 2003 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

you're not. are you?

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 31 July 2003 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Literalism went out with the ark.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 31 July 2003 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think I know how to take his earnestness: is it a put-on or not?

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 31 July 2003 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

DNFtT

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 31 July 2003 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

If he is a "troll" then he's a very benign one.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 31 July 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

j/k

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 31 July 2003 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

If he is a "troll" then he's a very benign one.

and yet for some reason he's approaching b*cky/c*lum levels of irritation for me

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 31 July 2003 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

would you rather his philosophizin' be more lecherous?

also, who's this b*cky that's Cannot Be Named? Can somebody find a thread that illustrates her...style?

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:12 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.nealadams.com/Graphics/bucaction.gif

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Honestly, and to repeat myself, I think it's the fact that I can't tell whether Sebastian is genuinely earnest and looking for discussion of his rather airy (although sometimes interesting, in a 3 AM sort of way) ideas or if it's a bit of a put-on, that makes it a little frustrating. Things like "I won't add noise to this thread or any other threads by answering to your posts until I decide you have style/charm" are a bit hard to believe but then again perhaps we at ILE are simply too cynical for our own good.

Sorry Sebastian I hope you don't take any of this as an insult.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

sebastian is nice. bacdafucup people

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

are you deliberately misspelling his name?

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

No. Sorry.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

RJG I kick you. I had hoped never to see O'Hare reference on this forum.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"nice"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought it might put users in the right frame of mind.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 1 August 2003 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

my joke was either too subltle or too stupid :(

― ron (ron), Friday, 1 August 2003 01:53 (twenty-two years ago)

oh that was a joke! hehe i get jokes!!

(it was actually quite clever)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 1 August 2003 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

subltle? ;-) ok thanks jim now i've turned my frown upside down

― ron (ron), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't really get the hostility on this thread.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:08 (twenty-two years ago)

get lost.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:10 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe it's because despite his intent, sebastien is coming across a bit on the patronising side, which makes me see red.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't find that, but that's just me.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TiVSktC8lHgC:www.factorcapital.com/images/home/red.gif

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

S1utsky is colorblind, it's a tragedy. For him the last three Kieslowski films were: Pale Grey, White, and Dark Gray.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Greyish Velvet

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

She Wore a Light-Grayish Ribbon

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Sebastien, I think you post good problems. I like your problems.

But I think part of the charm of ILE or even the "solution" that it offers is to create an environment where people are ends in themselves, so to speak, and not just a means to an end. (At first I thought this was going to be a thread about "why are there so advice column-type threads?", which I don't have a problem with, BTW.) Wouldn't it be tiresome if all your interactions with people were explicitly utilitarian? It is hard to say what problem knowing about people's preferences for coffee v. tea may solve directly, but having a nice community where we have discussions offers one solution to the ultimate philosophical problem of the essential aloneness of the mind and apparent futility of life, no?

― felicity (felicity), Friday, 1 August 2003 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

troll answer: I could tell you... but then I would need to kill you.
cynical answer: it doesn't matter as long as the job gets done.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 1 August 2003 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Wouldn't it be tiresome if all your interactions with people were explicitly utilitarian?

It seems like that *is* how many people interact with others(not saying Sebastien does--don't even know him). That's probably my biggest pet peeve w/r/t interpersonal relationships.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 1 August 2003 04:55 (twenty-two years ago)

because it's fricking tiresome. ergo felicity is otm

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 1 August 2003 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Sometimes, when reading things, I get the feeling that the writer is using long words and obtuse terminology to cover up the fact that their ideas are trivial, banal, or just badly thought-out. And that's the feeling I often get when trying to read Sebastien's posts.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 1 August 2003 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.e-michael.jp/gallery/sco1.jpg

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 1 August 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

rock on!

― Alan (Alan), Friday, 1 August 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

RJG I kick you.

He's not a toad so don't croak him.

― Sommermute (Wintermute), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

caitlin a lot of the words are half-translated French which maybe makes them sound hi-falutin? i like what she said about pushing solutions and ideas to the limit of their coherence

that said, i think the question format is perfect and kind of funny in a way - for instance this is an "answer" but hardly a total one; "solution" suggests a neat tying-up which happens only extremely rarely around here, thankfully

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 1 August 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

S1utsky is colorblind, it's a tragedy. For him the last three Kieslowski films were: Pale Grey, White, and Dark Gray.

http://www.osric.com/~jeremy/hurhurhur.jpg

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jun/20036189441603795655468.jpg

Ha!

― Sommermute (Wintermute), Friday, 1 August 2003 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

ooo! a challenge then!

i'll see your Heavy Metal Legend clive clemons, and raise you a Creepy Chick from Battle Royale!

http://www.osric.com/~jeremy/br.jpg

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Not too shabby, but I got the Rage of a Whole Nation right here :

http://www.ohiohistory.org/etcetera/exhibits/kilroy/posters/images/japyou~1.jpg

― Sommermute (Wintermute), Friday, 1 August 2003 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

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