overthinking things

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i've been accused of this twice in this last week. once by someone i kinda trust, once by someone i definitely don't. i suspect in my case, it roughly translates to "you find ways of making possible future obstacles seem inevitable to justify your avoidance of any risks that might result in happiness and other difficult and exciting things". if this is what i do, i'm not sure if i can change it, or to what degree i really want to change it. thoughts?

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

thinking way too much
is the smart guy's best defense
against idiots

(aka CLASSIC)

― Haikunym, Friday, 25 July 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Accusing someone of "overthinking things" is often a bullshit argument tactic or criticism, but:

"you find ways of making possible future obstacles seem inevitable to justify your avoidance of any risks that might result in happiness and other difficult and exciting things"

If you're doing that, it's definitely bad. That's an easy road to ugly bitterness, and an easy way to become the kind of person who sneers at people who are happy because they're too dumb to realize how fleeting it is/too shallow to be concerned with the Deeper Things In Life/too callous to care about the Terribly Horrible Things In The World -- all the while sitting on the couch doing a whole lot of nothing.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I like that right now, this thread title is next to "what's your favorite kind of apple?"

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

don't change who you are.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i definitely have nothing against most happy people, Tep. a good deal of the time i am one of them. and the answer is 'golden delicious'.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

don't change who you are.

Yeah, stay a screaming, incontinent non-verbal infant. I know I did.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not so sure about that advice, Julio. if you mean "don't impose artificial change" (i'm not quite sure that there's any other kind tho), then... maybe.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

mitch- It sounds to me all yr doing is being a bit argumentative and that's a good thing in my book (i said a bit there, obv you can overdo it and that's no good) (but then again i don't know abt specifics of this situation).

do not take N's childish rant seriously.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

sounds like self fulfilling prophecy. You don't feel you deserve it therefore you won't get it. you create obstacles. sounds like they are the ones with the problem especially the one you don't trust. Do you overthink things?

― sam wallace (punky), Friday, 25 July 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I just drink more

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 25 July 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

mitch i told you drop that bitch like the twice baked potato she is

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 July 2003 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i definitely have nothing against most happy people, Tep. a good deal of the time i am one of them.

Sounds like it's all good, then. What was the context, if any?

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 25 July 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Hamlet to thread!

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 25 July 2003 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

tep see the post above you

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 July 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

If mitch is talking to a potato, what's to overthink?

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 25 July 2003 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.quest-anat.com/images/giftsbraingel.jpg

― Dada, Friday, 25 July 2003 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes but if the potato fell over in a forest would it...

― Matt (Matt), Saturday, 26 July 2003 01:02 (twenty-two years ago)

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eteissier/Larmes/sorties/chinese.jpg

― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Saturday, 26 July 2003 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

One of the first Fritz the Cat comic strips expresses this dilemma. The cat is sitting on his porch, miserable, and wondering how not to be, and a group of good looking guys and girls drive by in a sports car waving bottles and shout out 'Try not to think so much'. I don't think there's any comment after that but the obvious implication is, 'But I don't want to be like them/ On the other hand, they are happy and I am not'. Maybe someone else has seen this and can remember it better than me?

― m.s (m .s), Saturday, 26 July 2003 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

You can think a lot without depressing yourself. Everything is perspective, after all.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 26 July 2003 05:01 (twenty-two years ago)

potato dropped, strongo, but that's only one half of why i asked this question.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Saturday, 26 July 2003 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

happiness and other difficult and exciting things

Blessed are they that underthink, for whom happiness is neither difficult nor exciting.

― nestmanso (nestmanso), Saturday, 26 July 2003 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never believed this bizarre idea that less intelligent people are happier, or that intelligence leads to misery, or that it's harder to be happy if you're really clever. I'm way up the intelligent end of the scale (except when the scale is based on ILX!), and it's this intelligence that has brought me a lot of the best things in my life, and it's the source of a majority of my happiness. Where does this strange notion come from?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 26 July 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

"grass is always greener"

― Millar (Millar), Saturday, 26 July 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the value of "overthinking" depends on what is being considered/analyzed, and how. As well as the perspective of the person. I have a friend who always wants to analyze EVERY WORD of emails from a guy she's obsessed with. (and what did he really mean when he said "how are you?" etc.) That sort of thing is obviously just pointless, though it's human to think that way to some degree.

But there's also a sort of intellectual curiosity (though that phrasing sounds ridiculously snooty) that could also be categorized as overthinking. Analyzing and trying to understand the complexities of people's minds, of societal problems, etc. can be fascinating. This is something that many intelligent people do, and I don't see how it's correlated with happiness, except for the fact that pursuing things you find interesting can make you happy. People who aren't much interested in "intellectual" ideas/issues have their own interests, their own ways of finding happiness.

But I seem to be prattling on. The idea of imagining future obstacles can be perfectly healthy if you have a realistic attitude and don't take worst-case scenarios as an excuse to duck out of things.

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Saturday, 26 July 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"you find ways of making possible future obstacles seem inevitable to justify your avoidance of any risks that might result in happiness and other difficult and exciting things". if this is what i do, i'm not sure if i can change it...

Well, look on the bright side. If you are prone to overthinking you will have plenty of time to figure out how to change it.

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 26 July 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never believed this bizarre idea that less intelligent people are happier ... Where does this strange notion come from?

From the soul mate meme perhaps? The more intelligent one is, the less likely to have a conversation that doesn't taper out into those "ah, you and your big ideas, have fun, get laid" clinchers, because that's where the mensa test congratulations ("hats off, you're in the .05th percentile") end up in social reality? (Note to self: look up soul mate thread)

― nestmanso (nestmanso), Saturday, 26 July 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I can vouch the the above idea from personal experience. I used to be very intelligent, but after smoking too much weed I definitely dropped a few IQ points, lost much of my capaccity to do logic, and was unable to hold my position as an academic psychologist. I dropped my PhD, dropped out, got a simple job my damaged brain could manage, and have never been happier. The only problem is, I never have enough money, cos only clever people can get well paid jobs. On the other hand, I don't care, cos I'm happy.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Saturday, 26 July 2003 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Being inteligent has not stoped me having fun, and I'm sure that it has got me laid quite a few times. I've also not seen evidence that suggests that being intelligent impairs anyone's sex appeal.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 27 July 2003 10:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the value of "overthinking" depends on what is being considered/analyzed, and how. As well as the perspective of the person. I have a friend who always wants to analyze EVERY WORD of emails from a guy she's obsessed with. (and what did he really mean when he said "how are you?" etc.) That sort of thing is obviously just pointless, though it's human to think that way to some degree.

That sounds rather like this thread from last week. I say, Dud.

― caitlin (caitlin), Sunday, 27 July 2003 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't see how you can really tell whether being intelligent has contributed to your unhappiness or not, Martin.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 27 July 2003 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Being inteligent has not stoped me having fun, and I'm sure that it has got me laid quite a few times. I've also not seen evidence that suggests that being intelligent impairs anyone's sex appeal.

I'd shoot my foot by suggesting otherwise, wouldn't I? My own thoughts on the subject were a bit short-circuited by a conversation I had the other day which I thought was becoming interesting but suddenly ended up in a gush of "lighten up" career-bot positivity. Doesn't it happen all the time! (Of course, these people just know that reading a difficult book can't be fun at all.)

― nestmanso (nestmanso), Sunday, 27 July 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

N, I can certainly think of loads of ways that my intelligence has contributed to my happiness, and I can't imagine any benefits that would come from its reduction.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 27 July 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i disagree with martin on this to some extent, although it depends what definition of intelligence is to be used. but surely an increased capacity for reflection and analysis is likely to overlap with a propensity for depression?

i think the 3rd part of this triumverate is expectation though, this is the crucial part that i think is downplayed too much. intelligence-expectation-depression.

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 27 July 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think I consider an increased capacity for introspection - and you are talking about that, I think, not analysis of outward things - to be part of intelligence at all. Brooding about yourself is part of depression, but I don't at all believe it is linked to intelligence.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 27 July 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

you don't understand

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 27 July 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

now i'm not saying mitch is at all, but why do people almost always say people shouldn't change or should always be true to themselves or some other such stuff when, in fact, the person in question could quite possibly be a total dick who would benefit from a radical personality overhaul. or am i just overthinking here?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 July 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

You're not overthinking. It's the Golden Rule at work.

― Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 27 July 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, Dave, i think that's what N. was suggesting - the idea of some intrinsic, unchanging self isn't particularly useful (Tom and others have said that a number of times elsewhere on these boards). i've had to make a number of difficult decisions these past couple weeks, and resigning myself to "that's just me" seems to be the least helpful of the 'solutions'.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Sunday, 27 July 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

mmm, same here to be perfectly honest. i actually started a thread last week and actively encouraged people to tell me i was being a dick if they wanted to coz i wasn't quite sure whether i was being one or not at the time! and, as i said, that character assessment was in no way directed at you at all mitch (you actually seem like a reasonable fella for what it's worth). but it's something that gets said a lot and very rarely addresses the issues the person wants to discuss/examine/figure out etc.
anyway, i've just realised i've not answered your question either...
i often get accused of thinking too much, too, and i find this a difficult line to draw in my life. i like thinking pretty deeply about things and always have: it's a personality trait of mine and makes me who i am, but where does my liking for liking figuring life out and getting to the bottom of things become a bad thing?
well, i've noted over the years that take it too far and when "thinking" becomes self-indulgent and too intense it can also feed the least desirable parts of my character, isolating me from other people's viewpoints and throwing my perception of people/situations/whatever completely out of whack.
so, the long and the short of it is that, yes, i think you can definitely over-think!
(incidentally, it's especially unhelpful when done in the context of relationships because the chances are that the other person involved will not be on your wavelength at all if you spend hours, days, months mulling stuff over, like nutball, when they are out just getting on with life like a normal person!)
to me, over-thinking is when my thoughts get all tangled up to the point that i see more problems than solutions or when i begin to only see things from my own point of view in a selfish, woe-is-me kinda way. when i feel this happening, i always try to put a check on it.
it's pretty simple - i just try to get out, go for a walk, get some other stimuli, talk to a friend about something completely unrelated, do something that requires a bit of concentration or something stupid and fun. it's just a matter of distracting myself and doesn't mean that i don't come back to whatever i was thinking about, but it does mean that i do it with a lot clearer head than before.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 July 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

how could people so smart be so dumb?

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 27 July 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

it's a challenge but i manage!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 July 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

except Dave, what happens when all that mulling doesn't concern something 'removed'/abstracted from LIFE THE REAL THING but in fact involves your relationship with person you risk alienating? and what do you do when you're convinced that thinking now means less pain later for both parties? (this isn't exactly my situation, i should note. at least not anymore)

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Sunday, 27 July 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

oh i dunno at all mitch, i'm still prone to it and just try not to where i can help it by recognising when i am doing it and taking what action i can... i don't consider it the worst thing you can do anyway, you could be dumb as nuts and never think about anything. that would be far more to worry about... i know this isn't a great deal of help - sorry!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 July 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

how about instead of all this thinking, you try *talking* it out with a therapist and/or the other person? you might accomplish it faster and with less angst.

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 27 July 2003 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Man I would love to see a therapist. How much to they cost if consulted relatively frivolously?

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 27 July 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

consult your local community health center or university student center; often it is sliding scale (ability to pay)

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 27 July 2003 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

intrinsic, unchanging self

dud

― gareth (gareth), Monday, 28 July 2003 06:47 (twenty-two years ago)

N is looking for a sliding scale based on frivolity. I'm not sure they have one of those.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 28 July 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

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