Doctor Who: Classic or Dud?

There are too many great stories to count, but my favourite episode is probably The Ark In Space, or whatever that scary one with the sleeping people in the space station that got eaten by giant bees.

Also, the whole season that was the "key to time" story arc, I can't remember the name of any individual episodes, but just the fact that the Sonic Screwdriver ended up being the key on which the whole universe hinged was pretty damned cool. Plus, I had, like, a huge crush on Adrik, the original indie maths nerd, when I was a pre-teen. Though of all the companions, I think Romana was the coolest, just cause I wanted to *be* her. She was smarter than the Dr, after all. :-)

Funny, cause all the things that people point to, saying it's a dud- abysmally low production budget, lack of special effects, socks with googley eyes glued on for monsters- were all the things that made it endearing. And the quality of writing was just AMAZING- the minimal budget that they had, they spent on getting the very best in sci fi writers to come up with concepts and stories so engaging that you didn't care that it looked crap.

I could go on at length, but I've already outed myself as a geek enough on this board for one week...

"Doctor Who" was far and away my favorite show growing up. "The Ark In Space" is definitely high on my list, along with "The Robots of Death", "Kinda", "The Caves Of Androzani", the whole Key To Time season, "Inferno", "The Mind Robber"... Oh, I could go on and on. Favorite Doc is Davison, mostly because he managed to pull off underplaying the role and comes across as even more powerful because of it. Hell, I'm so into it that I've got EVERY book published in the New Adventures series from _Timewyrm: Genesys_ in the Virgin series through _Vanishing Point_ in the BBC series. (I do draw the line at conventions, though. Even when I was a kid, I thought the entire concept of a Doctor Who convention filled with adults dressed as these characters to be really disturbing.)

Best companions? Without a doubt, Leela, Romana I, Tegan, Sarah Jane, and Turlough. Especially Leela. (cf: fictional characters I've had a crush on)

Classic: the (original) Master, played by Roger Delgado.

Dud: all the stuff with Unit (ur-notion for the Initiative in Buffy? Only rubbish instead of good, obviously), and Pertwee himself (to me = Troughton nut). But Pertwee's ENEMIES were often grate (=Devils, Sea Devils: one of the Devils was called BOD!!)

Ten-ton dud: Tom "Overract why fucking don't you" Baker. But the Gallifrey/Time Lord business was often amusing.

Three-ton dud: Peter Davidson. BUT the ing on the first season of stories (esp. CASTROVALVA, abut timewarps and paradoxes, name taken from a lithograph by ESCHER = overlooked classic)

Hundred-ton duds: subsequent Doctors /Peter Cushing movies

Castrovalva! Was that the one where they were trapped in the scarily moebius strip city that Adrik (ah, archetype of all indie mathsrock nerds of my heart...) discovered that he had mistakenly created with his mathematical formulae?

Oh, and here's a question: K-9, what think you? Super-cool uber gadget who always saved the day, or annoying cutesy ploy, the Dr. Who equivalent of Ewoks?

Man, I have always wished that I had a sonic screwdriver!

Castrovalva and Adrik: very possibly correct — of course, this era Who is NEVER repeated (cuz supposedly a decline on Pertwee/ Baker), plus my memory is swirling away like asteroids into a time discontinuity anyway, so I don't recall. Part of my mathrock reason for liking Adrik was that the maths was, erm, not utterly entirely bogus. (mathrock = mathmath in my case...)

Jo = my major crush-assistant, I suppose. Can't be: she always screamed and wuz scared. Who was the one who ACTUALLY DIED? Played by Jean Marsh (later of Upstairs Downstairs). Or am I tripping?

GOT IT! My major crush assistant was Zoe!! (This too is a Wow-factor thing...)

Sub-thread Q: lamest Dr Who assistant?

Mark is right - it's your second. Peter Davison in my case. This theory probably falls down if applied to any post-Davison due to transcendental awfulness.

Jean Marsh played Sara Kingdom in "The Dalek Masterplan" and has the distinction of being the only companion to join and die in the same story. (Of course, "The Dalek Masterplan" went on for 16 episodes or something like that...)

"Castrovalva" is definitely the one where the Master uses Adric to generate a trans-dimensional mathematical construct solely to trap a confused and newly-regenerated Doctor.

Patrick Troughton rocked the house as far as I can tell. The only stories of his I've really seen are "The Mind Robber" and "The War Games", though, so I don't have enough evidence to knock Davison outof the top spot. The Yeti were SORELY underused, though.

Frasier Hines, who played Jamie, was also on "Upstairs, Downstairs".

The Doctor had three companions die during the television series; Srar Kingdom, Katarina, and Adric. The books added Liz Shaw and Roslynn Forrester to this list, plus the Brigadier is now living out the rest of his life in an alternate dimension populated by faries. (No, really.)

The misfortune of the Peri character was teaming her with the sixth Doctor. Either forceful, grating personality could have worked, but both together were a SHOCKINGLY bad idea. Interestingly enough, the new fiction line has managed to not only completely salvage Peri and the sixth Doctor, but also the hideously misconceived Melanie Bush, who has gone from being a chirpy nightmare to one of the more capable people the Doctor has travelled with.

Worst companion? Victoria Waterfield, aka the extremely wet Victorian girl whose sole function was to scream, "Help me Jamie!" at every opportunity. They replaced her with Zoe for reason, folks...

No, but that would have been awesome! More sad fannishness:

Sixth Doctor, "Trial of a Timelord". The Doctor gets taken outof time by the Timelords and put on trial for being a general menace to the universe. As it transpires, he was pulled out of time as he was rushing to rescue Peri from having her brain sucked out and replaced with one from a slug-like dictator. Therefore, he wasn't there to save her and she was killed, becoming an evil pod person. The companion who ended up replacing her, Mel, was played by Bonnie Langford.

(At the end of the trial, it's strongly hinted that Peri was actually saved by one of the people fighting the evil slugs and ended up marrying him, which is why I didn't list her amongst the dead.)

And he had a soft spot for Jo. There's a scene in "The Green Death", at some point after she announces her engagement to Dr Jones, where he glances at her as if to say 'if I were ten...fifteen years younger'. Quite touching really.

The VERY FIRST companion was Susan, who was the doctor's DAUGHTER? No? She was interesting, it being 1963 and therefore pre- pop, let alone pre-Kate Millett: cuz she was SUPER-CLEVER, and the earth-boys were baffled and threatened and intrigued by this. But I don't remember her to look at since (a) B/W episodes never repeated; and (b) her character/look is overlaid by things I much later read in ancient second-hand TV comic-books and by the very repeated film with Bernard fucking Cribbins in it). (BC = cool, just not appropriate to this story...)

But I do remember a scene with her in it, which is poorly revisited in the film, when the white bedford van she is in (driven by a dalek-resistance soldier) is strafed by the giant dalek ship. Cuz where I lived and where my dad worked the staff van was a white bedford van, and when I was in it, I often used to check out that there was enough foliage near enough that I could jump out of the van — as Susan had — and roll to cover into it, shd the dalek ship appear and begin strafing.

That is all. (That is enough...)

An episode of Fireball XL5 gave me the all- time nightmares-for-week spooking, though.

My memory of this is hazy, despite being told this story dozens of times in my youth, but by all accounts he was very nice, askign K9 why he wasn't in the tardis, who his friend was and so on. What a nice chap.

Best series Genesis of the Daleks, but only cos a friend did it as a one man show. His interpretation of Davros was jumping around in a frying pan, tom Baker was a pan on the head.

tom Baker was the best imho.

Ace was very annoying though, and janet what's her name from Blue peter

Anyway, Jo (Katy Manning) destroyed and stomped on my pre-adolescent heart by marrying the dull Sgt. Benson in the Pertwee/Unit days. I've never ever recovered, never will and don't want to. A goddess.

Great call on Roger Delgado. A scary mutha in a very English way.

Mark: my school library also always had the Mail. The librarian was a self-described "true blue" Tory, hmmm, what a surprise ...

Taking sides: Peanuts vs The Perishers

Did you all see the mid-90's TV movie with Paul McGann and Daphne Ashbrook? Any comments?

There's a great Doctor Who book floating out there called _Interference_ where the Doctor runs into an enemy who completely FUBAR's his past timeline. I love that idea and I'm kind of bummed out that the show never really exploited that aspect of time travel (ill-conceived Valeyard aside).

Doctor Who assistants - Search/Destroy
The Man That Ruined Doctor Who
Doctor Who Weekly/Monthly comic strips - Search/Destroy

MIND FITE!!!

Castrovalva is rubbish though!

The VERY FIRST companion was Susan, who was the doctor's DAUGHTER? No? She was interesting, it being 1963 and therefore pre- pop, let alone pre-Kate Millett: cuz she was SUPER-CLEVER, and the earth-boys were baffled and threatened and intrigued by this. But I don't remember her to look at since (a) B/W episodes never repeated

I remember the surviving B/W episodes being shown on UK Gold when UK Gold first started, in the early 90s. I think Susan told everyone that she was the doctor's granddaughter, but this might just have been a ploy to explain why he was her guardian to boring Earth people.

My favourite Doctor Who related thing is probably Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, a Douglas Adams novel put together from late-70s Doctor Who scripts that were never broadcast. (as was the third Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy book)

Exquisite. Simply... exquisite.

Tico - The BRANE OF MORBIUS should only be attempted after a couple of cans of RELAXANT in my opinion cos it is very silly. Also you will be annoyed by the rubbish assistant who falls over a lot. The priestesses are brilliant. But yes I am up for DOCTOR ACTION.

Secret flame! Secret fire!

Also the invention of real actual computers was catastrophic for Dr Who cos they insist on using them and seeing Z80 graphics on futuristic screens is more horrible than any rubber monster. Castrovalva has a particularly poor eg of this.

It is vvv amusing in Castrovalva when they are reading up on ZERO CO-ORDINATES on what looks like a primitive Teletext reader. I do not like the assistants there cos one of them IIRC tried to SHUN K-9. Bah humbug.

K-9 did a STERLING job in the Sun Makers.

X = reason why someone (who generally does not like Genre of which X is example) started to like Genre

Typical nerd response:

X = RUBBISH!!!

I hate nerds.

This leads us to a question I asked Mrs Tico Tico last night - why exactly was Beryl Reid famous again?

What I am trying to say is that for some people (including HSA) the rubber suits and stupid aliens were a turn-off, which distracted him from being able to appreciate the clever plots and interesting concepts which made Dr. Who so fantastic. Castrovalva had no rubbish monsters, but it did have an amazing concept.

So you get all these nerds going "My appreciation of Dr. Who is superior because I can look past the rubbish rubber monsters" (or even "I *like* the rubbish rubber monsters") which totally disregards the point that it is the concept and plots and writing which makes Dr. Who a cut above the usual rubber monster sci fi rubbish.

Mostly because he could do the thing that still sets great Dr. Who stories apart: a fairly stable system which suddenly has a relentless resourceful force of chaos rampaging through it.

I am a nerd, but I wasn't trying to pull a move of 'oh no that's not part of the canon' or 'oh no that's not obscure enough' - Castrovalva is highly regarded among Dr Who fans I've discovered, but that regard baffles me a bit.

spplutter, I am glad in the US Doctor Who never caught on w/ the fanboy community WHAT??

I have not been to that many conventions, but at the ones I've been to, the Doctor Who presence was miniscule compared to Star Trek, Star Wars, anime, etc.

Did anyone* see the Cruise of the Gods one off drama on telly this past Christmas. A bit sappy, but funny stuff and well observed, obviously from 1st hand experience.

* these people did http://www.delgados.co.uk/dailydiary_1201.htm

if you watch carefully at the end, when Morbius falls off the cliff his claw falls off, revealing the act-or's hand underneath.

As for Dr Who, I liked it as a kid and stopped watching soon after Tom Baker left, and have hardly looked back since. I watched the one off filmed special and thought it was utterly misjudged, same as everyone else.

This is the best one sentence description of Dr. Who ever.

I heart Dr. Who. But growing up I generally preferred UK SF TV (Dr. Who, and all the Gerry Anderson shows) to the tedious American ones.

It is utterly hilarious - if you've ever seen the Rowley Birkin QC drunk character from the Fast Show, then that's what it was like. Dear old Tom rambling away with stories that had bugger all to do with the episodes he was supposed to talk about (eg: "ah! Well, now, I don't recall a thing about this story, but I do know there was a delightful barmaid at the lovely little pub nearby. Smashing").

Towards the shows end he got all maudlin when he went over the fact that apart from a couple of guest spots on things, he's never really been succesful since. It was all rather sad.

Great viewing if you can find it, I wish I could remember the name of the thing.

Actually it *did* look rather ph33rs0m3 cos from the blurb on the back they seem to be taking over the world by controlling MANNEQUINS THE WORLD OVER. Arrrgh!

Why did I not steal this video? It is because I am a FULE. Also I forgot my shopping bags. Groo.

However, I've never seen it, except for the made-for-TV movie.

If I were to start, -where- should I start, and is it on DVD?

ignore the 2 doctors and the varos one

oh no! they are PUSHING THEIR WAY THRU BRACKEN!! oh NOOOOO!!

if i wasn't sitting down already i wd need to

I can't remember how the lowly superstar window dresser managed to make her come to life though. Wasn't she a cursed princess or something?

Tico I would love to borrow the episode. I sense it is something that should be watched under AMBIENT LIGHTING and clutching teddy bear/blanket/bottle of GIN, yes?

a great Dr Who thread would be S/D Minor Characters In 3rd Doctor Stories Who Exist Only To Get Killed At the Beginning.

Search: Pigbin Josh (eh, is he the one from Spearhead From Space? or is he from Claws Of Axos?)

also it was based on the legend of pigpygmalion

yes, it is total classic. I love the bit where he looks at his ex-wife on the screen and says "Oh, that's Lalla! I remember... we became very close".

apparently the catchphrase in Tom Baker's autobiography is "we had the most terrible fun... and then I never saw them again".

Right... a *long post* here I feel; but I know the show well, so why not contribute?

In terms of Doctors:
Classic: Hartnell, Troughton, Tom Baker (manic, brooding, charming... his Doctor has perhaps generally been my favourite)

Dud: Pertwee (though not exclusively; his first season is a corker, and he's pretty good in it, but too often is rather staid in many later stories), Colin Baker (due perhaps to waning scripting, he was ill-served; he gave his all, but some things were ill-conceived. I generally like the way he tried to play the part).

Mixed: Davison (years and years since i've seen most of his stories... it's possibly his underplayed quality that meant I wasn't so taken with him; maybe not i'd appreciate it more. He certainly seems to along with Troughton have had the best post-DW career; "At Home with the Braithwaites", of which I only caught a few episodes of last year's series, sees him give a deliciously comic performance! I want to see "A Very Peculiar Practice" too...), McCoy (the 1987 season is weak all-round and his performance seems a little amateurish. Yet, he's never less than likeable, and gradually improved. By the final 1989 season, he had honed a very effective melancholia into the character. He was a wistful, wise, loveable uncle sort of figure, yet with possible darker leanings... it's only a shame that as an actor McCoy could never do angry very well).

Stories:
Search: the whole of Seasons 7 and 26; being only four stories apiece, these maybe have an advantage in terms of consistency. First is Pertwee at his early grounded best - all moral shades of grey in the writing, effective location work and sense of threats/mystery. Great monsters in the Autons and great plot in "Inferno". "Ambassadors of Death" is an all-o'er-the-place romp of some genius: very padded but entertainingly so. One of the more psychedelic and Bondian of Who stories, but with a morality play core to it. S26: barring possibly the straight adventure of "Battlefield" (which is entertaining at least, but not really good), the other 3 stories maintain a very high standard indeed. Use of historical settings was well overdue, considering the BBC's expertise at that. With fantastical and macabre elements brought into those settings. "Ghost Light" haunted me as a child, as did "Curse of Fenric"; both of which are dense, complex tales. "Survival" brought a suprising and wistful air of social (and magic) realism to the show. What a shame it had to be its finale at that time: just as the programme was getting *good* again!
Seasons 14 and 16 are close to as good as well... S16 maybe let down by weaker final 2 stories. The first four are a grand run though.
Random Search-worthy stories: "Seeds of Doom" (wonderfully tense first 2 eps. and then an enthrallingly barmy extended-"Avengers" style saga...), "Talons of Weng-Chiang" (all sorts of Victoriana combined in a sumptuous whole... archetypally wonderful DW, though few matched its level of hit to the miss), as some have said: "Castrovalva" (possibly with some dullish moments, but i like that leisurely progress it has; nice atmosphere, all quirky early-80s paraphanelia and Paddy Kingsland synth work... as people have said, a fantastic central narrative idea). "The Time Meddler" (barmy, winning Hartnell historical set in 1066 with a Monk who wants to assassinate William the Conqueror!), "The Mind Robber" (like the previous, this was in the fine BBC2 1992 repeat run of stories. Wonderfully surrealist hi-jinks; a world of fiction that constantly baffles even the Doctor!), "The War Games" (a massive 10 episodes long, this is a wonderfully epic tale; one of the key stories of the whole show. Last Troughton, and he gives a superb performance - his impersonation of a WW1 British Inspector of Prisons is a priceless, magical scene!), "An Unearthly Child (the very first episode of the whole show is genius; 'nuff said'), "City of Death" (the show's very best use of humour, and that's saying something; married to a fine plot, and Parisian locations, this is unutterably charming stuff... maybe my very favourite story of all. Tom B. and Lalla make a great pair), "The Androids of Tara" (from the 'Key To Time' S16, this blissfully ignores the umbrella theme and just gets down to telling a smashing swashbuckling story. Beautiful location work, T. Baker at his funniest... Mary Tamm actually rather good), "Warriors' Gate" (from that very odd final T. Baker season of which I have mixed feelings; this is avant garde Dr Who. Vaguely influenced by Jean Cocteau, with some effective sci-fi, it's beautifully directed and an effectively complex tale), "Black Orchid" (jolly old 1920s country house murder yarn, which beautifully has the Doctor just turn up and star in a cricket match! Davison great in this; a story in which T. Baker's Doctor would have been too dominating a figure... I need to see this again), "The Green Death" (for that key and rare emotional scene alluded to by someone on here... it really adds an unresolved depth to Pertwee's all too often autopilot portrayal. And a reasonable story as well), "Robot" (watch Tom Baker forming the portrayal as he goes along almost... his performance has the flavour of improvisational inspiration about it; wonderfully interesting for this reason), "Robots of Death" (one of the most scary certainly, and Leela in all her glory...! Great companion), "Horror of Fang Rock" (probably the best Leela story, this again shows DW playing its horror card precisely and beautifully. A lot of depth to this story in the writing and acting). And I could go on... ;-)
Too many Hartnell and particularly Troughton episodes were destroyed and have not been found... probably the most promising of the 'lost stories' are "Evil of the Daleks", "Power of the Daleks" (first Troughton, so poetically alluded to above by Mark S.), "The Massacre", "Fury from the Deep" (genuinely quite scary to listen to on audio, with brilliant sound and music; a very bleak, out-of-control atmosphere, doom-laden crises by the sea... has a great dazed cliffhanger where a possessed lady wife of one character walks off into the mist-laden sea... a surviving clip of this 'malevolent Laurel and Hardy' pair - purporting to be maintenance men - who exhale a gas that chokes this woman, is a macabre scene indeed), "Web of Fear" (the Yeti in London one; the extant opener is a corking episode; the rest according to audio seems a fine exercise in action, paranoia and tension).

Destroy: Haven't the heart (or frankly the time!) to go too far here... the show has clear faults; but I really think they should be overlooked in favour of its redoubtable strengths, but here goes...
"The Web Planet" (absolutely incomprehensible, if bizarre early Hartnell... it may have been the appalling UK Gold quality of sound/picture, but it was like a snowstorm with unexplained madness going on and mumbled words... all sorts of weird ants and bee-men. This might actually be genius if tidied up for DVD, but I sadly doubt it!), "The Sensorites" (sums up the worse side of early DW; incredibly slow-moving and literal sci-fi. Even the regulars seem lethargic), "Time-Flight" (woeful end to a generally good first Davison season; the money had ran out, and what we have is... a shoddy, shoddy effort all round), "Time and the Rani" (cringe-worthy first McCoy story; embarrassing really), "Attack of the Cybermen" (the most appallingly past-continuity-of-the-show-reliant story of all the later years; a gaudy adventure that lacks any control of tone, like quite a few Colin Baker stories), "The Twin Dilemma" (with suitable changes to production and writing, this could have worked... there are fine and brave moments, but on the whole it is fatally inept. Colin Baker doesn't quite pull it off... but as I say, it has its moments), "Silver Nemesis" (pointless, cut-up of all sorts of novelty elements), "Resurrection of the Daleks" (too much macho posturing, not enough humour or humanity; the case with a fair bit of mid-1980s Who), "Colony in Space" (there are many really quite dull Pertwees; this is one of them ;-)), "Revenge of the Cybermen" (possibly my least favourite Tom Baker; it has a few hilarious moments of Baker madness, yet is deadly dull otherwise and wastes the Cybermen for goodness' sake!) and the McGann TV Movie (just not Dr Who in so many core elements; McGann is good, but his costume is too pastiche Edwardiana, and it all just seems so streamlined and lacking genuine ideas and intelligence. An over-reliance on 'quirky one-liners' as well, no subtlety; all is too much of a bland action story... too many past allusions, too many pointless changes to the Doctor's character - 'half-human' etc. Not enough charm and wonder.).
I think the thing about the Colin Baker and Jon Pertwee eras is that there aren't really that many awful stories, yet there are comparitively far too few triumphs.

Overall, well, as people can probably tell, I love it... genuinely wonderful TV for the 'intelligent 12 year old', though clearly its appeal extends to those much younger and older than that. :-) In the words of Viv Stanshall, it's 'English as tuppence, changing yet changless as canal-water'...

Sinker totally OTM !
my younger sister was so terrified at the part with the arm gun
that my mum came in and turned the telly off

and yes, it's true - our couch wasn't against the wall
so we did hide behind it and other chairs in the room

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/photonovels/evilofthedaleks/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/photonovels/evilofthedaleks/one/47.shtml

Saw it a few weeks ago on UK Gold, who are currently showing the Jon Pertwee stories now for the 1st time in four years.
Into Pertwee's 3rd season now.

3rd Doctor:

Green Death is probably the best one out there (giant maggots) as long as you can get past some of the Welsh stereotyping and the "aren't environmentalists mad" subplot. The extras are good.
Spearhead From Space (Autons) is good for a "new Doctor" story and Claws Of Axos is a lot of fun (but with really 70s effects and an acid freakout).

4th Doctor:

You can't go wrong with any of the Gothic Horror stories - Pyramids Of Mars, Horror Of Fang Rock or Talons Of Weng-Chiang. We can argue over whether Robots Of Death fits into this category or not (I'd say it does) but that's another good one. If you don't fancy that, the recently released Genesis Of The Daleks is possibly the best-paced 6-parter ever and The Ark In Space is a great romp (if you ignore the at times very poor effects - bubble wrap will kill us all).

The Web Planet is possibly the most ON DRUQS Who I've seen. Also The Aztecs is quite brilliant in places.
The Mind Robber is probably the best Troughton on sale, and has the maximum ZOE UBER-CUETNESS factor (see also Tomb Of The Cybermen).
Caves of Androzani is one of the best-written Who stories, probably.
Vengeance On Varos actually stands up really well, with a Big Brother-esque plot 20 years before RTD did it, and Jason Connery topless.
I can't think of any reason to recommend any of the McCoy releases except they're better than I remember them being.

I have very fond memories of 'Paradise Towers' from when I was a kid.

Dan's the McCoy fan I think, you might get him defending them. (I actually think McCoy himself isn't that bad, he was just crippled with the two worst comoanions in the history of the show.)

Ghost Light is better than I thought it was at the time but MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE, which even the writer admits. If you watch it with the commentary on, he explains what happens in the scenes that were cut and you can see how it was supposed to work, but it barely saves it.

And you know what - it would work.

Er, hello? It's Doctor Who, not Senior Staff Nurse Who.

Pretty much all of the 4th Doctor/Leela(/K9) stories are must-owns, ESPECIALLY "Talons", "Horror" and "Robots". Also don't sleep on the 5th Doctor; "Frontios", "Black Orchid", "Mawdryn Undead", "Enlightment", "Terminus", "The Caves Of Androzani", "Castrovalva", "The Visitation", "Kinda", "Snakedance"...

...

C'mon, we both know I'm the regenerated version of you. The timeline just hasn't caught up yet.

Doctor Who spin-off 'cancelled'
Billie Piper in Doctor Who
The show would have starred Bille Piper's character, Rose Tyler
Plans for a Doctor Who spin-off show starring Billie Piper were scrapped at the last minute, series producer Russell T Davies has revealed.

"It was actually commissioned by the controller of BBC One and budgeted," the writer told Doctor Who Magazine.

Davies later decided the programme, Rose Tyler: Earth Defence, was "a spin-off too far" and called it off.

Piper, 23, left Doctor Who earlier this year. She will be replaced by Freema Agyeman, 27, in the next series.

"We hadn't formally approached Billie," said Davies, "although we'd mentioned it to her."

Cold feet

"It was going to be fantastic. We'd have had a lovely budget and done brilliant things with it, maybe one Bank Holiday special a year."

However, the writer said he got cold feet while filming Piper's final appearance as Rose Tyler earlier this year.

Captain Jack meets the Doctor
A separate spin-off, Torchwood, stars John Barrowman as Captain Jack
"It spoils Doctor Who if we can see Rose... if we see as a concrete fact that her life continues to be as exciting without the Doctor," he said.

Davies added that the decision to abandon the programme cost him "a fortune".

A separate spin-off from the science fiction series is still going ahead, and will be shown on BBC Three this autumn.

Called Torchwood, it focuses on a squad of secret agents facing human and alien enemies, with actor John Barrowman reprising his role as time traveller Captain Jack.

The 13-part series will also be written by Davies, who acts as executive producer for the Doctor Who programmes.

Meanwhile, the third series of Doctor Who is currently being filmed in Wales.

Monkey Girl: Earth Defence would've been a better title.

Apropos, does anyone know if Bella And The Boys (starring B Piper) will be released on DVD? Torrents hard to come by I've found.

Seriously, had anyone heard anything about this thing before it got "cancelled"?

"Mawdryn Undead"!
"Mawdryn Undead"!
"Mawdryn Undead"!

also, "Warriors of the Deep"! Davison just nails the tragic finish!

Hello ILE. I have decided to educate myself in the way of old-skool Who and am watching as much of it as I can, over the internet, in order.

I have got as far as the second episode, but that lengthy scene with the cavemen arguing about who gets to be the leader is interminable. Talking to someone who'd never heard of Doctor Who, you'd never be able to convince them that it would survive, on and off, for over forty years.

Things get better with "The Daleks".

i have never attempted to watch dr who in any kind of order

well obv except for these latest seasons and i guess when it was on tv when i was younger

i commend you

Dan is right, "The Daleks" is quite brilliant.

Matt, when you say "over the internet", do you mean some streaming thing? Or torrence?

I've been doing exactly the same thing Matt, I'm a few months ahead of you. I'm at the start of T Baker now. I haven't been watching them all, that would be far too much of a mission - what I suggest doing is going to the very comprehensive episode guides on the BBC site and skim reading the review bit at the bottom of each to determine if the serial is worth watching.

"The Daleks" is quite brilliant.

Absolutely, for the first three or so episodes. It does drag rather towards the end. If you don't mind skipping ahead a bit and want an example of how great the Hartnell stories could be, I recommend 'The Ark'.

Oh, are you planning to listen to the audio of the incomplete ones? I didn't bother.

also, "Warriors of the Deep"! Davison just nails the tragic finish!

all I remember of this is the pantomime horse monster.

what's brought this on?

Well it was mostly discovering this really, but also I just wanted to watch them.

It's a real pity about the drop in quality between the first-ever episode and the rest of "An Unearthly Child."

I watched "Ghost Light" for the first time recently. Similar to "Warrior's Gate," in that I spent much of the episode wondering what the powers that be were smoking when they approved the script. "Warrior's Gate" made slightly more sense, though. The first couple episode are marvelously creepy and insane (why the hell does the moth collection come alive?), though the conclusion is kind of a letdown.

dud

The scene with Rose, Martha and Donna all in the same room is going to be dreadful.

Like the threesome in Secret Diary of a Call Girl.

and then they all lez up

xpost

You only see it through the Dalek eye.

Oooer missus long stalk with a single eye at the end, nudge nudge DIE RTD DIE YOU CUNT

billie piper is the only reason ever to watch this trash.

darra out

would watch if jol was shexy companion.

i think it could be amazing

I've been watching the repeats of Tennant's first season and I have to say she is pretty good.

Q: In her first-ever episode, who's the mixed-race dude that Rose kisses goodbye on the lips before jumping into the Tardis? And he looks ruefully after her, then walks towards the flats behind TV Centre a tower block? Is he ever referred to again?

You mean Mickey? He's in most of the first two series.

what is the point of bringing her back? just so they can do rub emo "I love y..." 15 minute send off again.

I'm assuming there is a ratings fluctuation (i.e. drop) between Bille and No-Billie episodes.

the point is lesbian spank inferno massive conflagration for great finale when RTD goes so they can clear the boards for the specials and someone else (MOFFAT) to take over when it comes back in 2009 or whever the HELL it is

i have to admit, i'd watch dr who if martin jol was the bungling dalek leader.

steve staunton for next dr who

"waaael, wayal just hofta seaa wha happens"

(MOFFAT) to take over
http://www.resonancestore.com/aidanmoffat/items/13172.jpg

All episodes to take place off camera, repeated on camera as monolgues.

Matt - OK! The only other Rose-era Who I've seen besides that first Tennant episode is the awesome one with Madame Bouffant and the weird spaceship that leads to an extra-dimensional fireplace.

Can I make a guess based on what I know of nu-Who that Rose is "torn" between the trad pleasures of Mickey and the exciting yet dangerous Doctor?

On a more serious note, the finale has been rumoured for some considerable time to be Doctor+Donna+Martha+Jack+Sarah Jane+Rose vs Master +/vs Davros. (This came from the same source as a perfect description of the last series finale, down to Jack hanging off the TARDIS, The Master return, the first time the name 'Toclafane' was heard...)

This was bolstered considerably by some off the cuff remarks by RTD about how each finale had to be bigger than the year before, and how the next finale would be UTTER FANWANK OF THE WORST KIND.

Before this confirmation the least likely part of it to be true was assumed to be the return of Rose. Now I fear the worst...

Well Belle de Jour's not exactly setting the world on fire.

yeah it's def gonna happen now re Davros and co. (now there's a spin-off...).

no mention of the Children In Need thing? was pretty forgettable.

Davros, classic-or-dud would be a good one to consider. I say dud, apart from in Genesis of the Daleks.

Davros kind of sucks.

Davros? Is the leader of the Daleks some dirty Greek?

Davros such a brilliant villain on paper but crap in practice

and in bed

well DUH

Yeah, Michael Wisher is great in Genesis but the rest are pretty awful. Terry Molloy isn't that bad in Revelation, but he doesn't exactly have that much to do in it.

I heard it was Davros + the Master.

IN BED

guys, no

Do not defile Dan's dreams.

someone I work with is married to a Dr Who writer called p4ul C0rnell.

THAT FUCKING GUY

I mean, he's written some great stories, but he's also written some AMAZINGLY AWFUL ONES that people wank themselves into a frenzy over for no discernable reason (The Shadows of Avalon, AKA "FUCKING TERRIBLE BOOK")

Also you work with someone with a fantastic last name, GG!

yes I have wondered whether it's real or a pseudonym but I only met her once so don't feel I can ask!

(she's written a couple of DW audio books herself)

Grandpoint, i thought paul had married a vicar!

er...? that some obscure reference I don't get? do you know him? his missus did do a theology masters prior to joining us, so maybe that's what you're referring to??

what happens = rose + donna + martha all appear in the same place at titanic, which either creates a paradox or the titanic sinks and all three girls die.

dr looking upset, and then looks up and sees SALLY SPARROW and dr who series becomes the best dr who series ever

oh that could be it. i met her once, she won't recall tho i bet. i knew paul a teeny bit aages ago.

my heart aches for sally sparrow and her worried pie-face

that's one pie face i wouldn't mind eating

p4ul c0rn3ll wrote Human Nature and Father's Day, two of the best ever. I have the book of Human Nature somewhere.

no mention of the Children In Need thing? was pretty forgettable.

-- koogs, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 01:41 (10 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Very little is more enjoyable than Tennant remarking on Davison "wearing a vegetable."

UGH FATHER'S DAY IS AN IRRITATING PIECE OF SHIT

Well okay, it's not that bad, but it is pie-faced twee mooning for a good portion of the time.

Lawrence Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P4ul C0rn3ll

(agh I am turning this into RADW circa 1998)

Meh, science fiction doesn't all have to be po-faced aliens with prosthetic foreheads discussing trade tariffs for 28 years.

Although I cannot fault Lawrence Miles, if you overlook how incredibly difficult Henrietta Street is to read.

Ben Aaronovitch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Cornell
Lance Parkin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Cornell
Kate Orman (before she started believing her press)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Cornell
Dave Stone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Cornell
Peter Anghelides >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Cornell
Jonathon Morris >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Cornell

(Paul Cornell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Terrence Dicks)

(Also Paul Cornell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dude who wrote The Pit, I can't believe I've forgotten his name)

NEIL PENSWICK

Man, the reaction that book caused! lol

Dueds Kylie Minogue's in the Crimmus santabotlien special!

Jonathan Morris >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Terry == Barry

Mark Gatiss (scripts) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Gatiss (that horrible book about #3)

Oh actually some stuff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Gatiss (scripts)

Everyone else who ever wrote a Doctor Who book >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jon de Burgh Miller

Way to break my horizontal layout

Mark Michalowski is missing from this recent discussion.

Also let's not forget Craig Hinton.

I LOVED CRAIG HINTON

Right, there appears to be a very large number of old-skool Who episodes on Veoh and I've been meaning to do some sort of crash course in the first five Doctors for a while now. Which stories should a virtual novice make a beeline for?

(I am assuming that the C Baker/McCoy episodes are not really worth bothering with).

Genesis of the Daleks
Tomb of the Cybermen
Caves of Androzani (apparently; I've not seen it since I was 10)
Pirate Planet (also the Robert Holmes one before it (can't remember what it's called)
Inferno

Top 3 for each Doctor:

The Daleks
The Romans
The Time Meddler

Tomb Of The Cybermen
The Invasion
The War Games

Inferno
The Daemons
The Time Warrior

Genesis Of The Daleks
Terror Of The Zygons
The Seeds Of Doom
Pyramids Of Mars
The Talons Of Weng-Chiang
The Ribos Operation

Black Orchid
Resurrection Of The Daleks
The Caves Of Androzani

(4th Doctor gets twice as many because he was there twice as long. 1st and 2nd constrained by existing episodes)

That'll do nicely :)

YES THE WAR GAMES

(although note The War Games is very long)

(although note The War Games is 10 episodes of bliss)

(although note The Invasion is 8 episodes of bliss too)

For Hartnell I'd add The Ark.

(although note The War Games is 10 episodes of bliss)

O RLY? It does betray its origins as a four-to-six episoder padded up to ten, one reason why the novelisation is so much more enjoyable.

When does the new season start?

Spring. I think it was April last year.

Here's the trailer if you've not seen it. Sontarans!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXWHSg08Bv0

It's got those cthulu guys again!

The Ood.

My suggestions:

The Daleks
The Aztecs

The Mind Robber
The Invasion? (I'm in the middle of it, and it seems good)
The War Games

Inferno (or Spearhead from Space, or The Silurians)
Carnival of Monsters
The Daemons

Talons of Weng-Chiang
The Robots of Death
City of Death
The Face of Evil
Warriors Gate
The Ribos Operation
Pyramids of Mars

Haven't seen much Davison, but Caves of Androzani is great, and Enlightenment is pretty good.

Revelation of the Daleks is the only C. Baker one I've seen, and it's fun, if rather strange. The last season of McCoy is also worth watching - Curse of Fenric, Survival, and Ghost Light are all really interesting.

Carnival of Monsters is excellent, yeah. I also have a soft spot for The Three Doctors - the interaction between Troughton and Pertwee is a joy.

I need to get on the Davison, don't think I've seen any since they first aired when I was very young indeed.

wow there are so many classics i haven't seen!
i am so doing some solid hungover doctor who watching tomorrow

Have started watching the restarted series. Not bad.

Barry Letts RIP

Was a joy on the commentary tracks, Pertwee era DVDs will seem odd without his input.

Watching 'Genesis of Daleks' this afternoon...great stuff.

Still haven't got into Davison much, can anyone recommend me a couple of indispensable stories?

Black Orchid is lots of fun, and not a huge time investment at around an hour long.

Black Orchid is probably my favourite. Caves of Androzani. Black Guardian trilogy. Planet of Fire. Resurrection of the Daleks.

I'm not really much of a fan of the Wet Vet, mainly because I don't like any of his companions.

Black Orchid my favourite too. But I've been watching the Davisons in order recently, and I think he's a bit of a failed experiment. A fallible Doctor is a nice idea, but one who consistently messes stuff up and then fails to make the decisions needed to fix things again just gets a bit annoying.

(xpost) Nyssa and Tegan particularly are a huge PITA. Possibly that's what puts a lot of people off Davison, because from the very first post regen story (Castrovalva) they have N & T lugging a box with the Doctor in it around the place and complaining to each other.

I'm not much of a fan of him either, but Kinda and Enlightenment are pretty cool.

Four to Doomsday has its peculiar charms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSaD0g8xY_k

^Some inspired 'casting' in that.

WTF is this all star perfect day????????

is this a thing?

over here we do not know

10-year-old anti-poverty charidee record - it topped the charts for ages.

Also Heather Small's solo sounds like Tardis takeoff/landing REAP REAP REAP REAP REAP...

but perfect day is SO FUCKING CREEPY!!! how could it be charity record? world will you please make sense?

been meaning to do an all-star perfect day poll for ages. no time now.

the original BBC charity song from 1997, it was in aid of Children in Need, would you believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJpQJWpVJds

so now that they've shown all of the new season over here, can I just say that Matt Smith is a fucking fantastic Doctor and Amy has the possibility of being a great character now that they don't have a plot device sucking her backstory into a void, turning her into a one-note cypher?

Kind of amused that Rory turned out to be the interesting companion.

Cosign although I have noticed that fans online are all kinds of creepy about Rory, which is off-putting. They act like he is the star of the show and complain about the Doctor and Amy taking away from his screentime? It is so weird.

ha I am glad I stopped paying attention to online fandom; I don't really think I could bear watching people going all TEAM RORY

Episode quality was super patchy at times the season, especially compared to last year; "Victory of the Daleks" is probably the worst of the entire series (or at least on par with "The Idiot Lantern") but "The Lodger" was fantastic.

I kind of feel bad for ragging on Mark Gatiss now because I really liked his writing on Sherlock, but he probably should never write for Doctor Who again.

Watching the interview with West Country News on the Revenge of the Cybermen disc, I have become convinced this was Eugene Levy's template for Mitch in A Mighty Wind.

"The Lodger" was fantastic.

I'm surprised so many people rate this episode, I thought it was unbearable. Easily the worst of the last series for me. I didn't like Victory of the Daleks much at first, but I've softened on it a bit now. It was designed as a silly, colourful, knockabout thing; it didn't quite succeed but is mostly harmless. Saying that I was kinda dreading Gatiss' Sherlock episode, but it was really good.

What didn't you like about it? I thought it was pretty good stuff with a more interesting proxy companion and a really great example of 11 making his alien weirdness into an asset when dealing with people rather than a liability.

There were three episodes I hated: Victory of the Daleks, and the two-parter with the Silurians. Otherwise, I thought the season was very enjoyable and probably my favorite of the new series (I keep waffling between this and the first season w/Eccleston).

I thought the Silurian story was okay, but mostly because I thought it was kind of hilarious how many times the Doctor told that woman she was a horrible, horrible person

That part was funny, but the Silurians just really annoyed me. They are like the Shakey Mos of aliens.

I thought it was a little problematic that all of the male were reasonable and the females were bloodthirsty xenophobes, although thinking back I think the entire warrior class was female...?

xps I dunno, I think the humour was a bit too broad for my taste, but mainly the writing for the Doctor seemed really... off. His character didn't feel consistent with the rest of the series. Something felt amiss anyway. I've only watched it once though.
I'll give it another crack when I buy the boxset - which'll be the first time I'll do so since series one. Like Nicole, I think this and the Eccles season have been the most enjoyable.

The second Silurian episode was terrible, the first was okay though. I did quite like how the Silurians were redesigned as a - mainly - female race of lizard warriors.

As for the 'classic' series, I'm doing that thing where I'm going through the lot in chronological order. Slowly, in my case, via an online DVD rental service. Last one rented was Dalek Invasion of Earth, the last story to feature Susan. Which at least means I won't have to hear Carol Anne Ford's story of how she rescued a (real) lizard from the set this one time. And Hartnell is great.

Hartnell really is great; I wish stories like "Marco Polo" were still in existence

be very interested to get your take on Susan vs Vicki

Where did they get the box?
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/08/_by_june_q_wu.html

http://news.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/the-k9-series-channel-5-trailer/

http://www.k9official.com/

admit it viceroy,leee,dan, kingfish etc you're gonna torrent this, aren't you?

What have they done to poor k-9? It's like Daft Punk and Poochie threw up on him at the same time.

He moved to Brisbane.

what was that shit, because that was not K-9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTlf_Rvh0q4&feature=related

It's John Leeson at least

I guess tin dogs can regenerate too

looks like it was first shown on the disney channel. I'm sure that explains a lot

#
slitheen
2 months ago

It is pretty crap...but I can't stop watching as Jorjie is proper fit....I mean Emma Watson Premier League fit....total babe (the actress is 17 nearly 18....she only plays a 14 year old in the show).

*wonders how many of you are google image searching*

K-9 DOES NOT LAUGH

WTF

I GOT YER FULL-ON INAPPROPRIATE NERD RAGE RIGHT HERE

Never change, Dan.

It doesn't bother me as I (challop warning) never liked K-9. Can totally understand the desecration angle though.

admit it viceroy,leee,dan, kingfish etc you're gonna torrent this, aren't you?

I somehow grabbed the first 9 episodes of this several months ago. Haven't watched it yet though. Not liking the new K9 build. He's not boxy enough.

I wonder who is Champions League Fit?

These rubbish alien menaces.

I WANT TO CRUSH THAT THING, AND THEN CRUSH THE PERSON WHO DESIGNED IT, AND THEN CRUSH THE PERSON WHO MADE THE DESIGNER DESIGN IT, AND SHOVE THE RESULTANT PASTE UP THE ASS OF THE PERSON WHO BUILT IT

I felt the same way about the new big & tall daleks.

WAHT

At least the new big & tall Daleks had precedent; ever seen any of the pics of the Emperor Dalek from Troughton's "Evil of the Daleks"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn4ysFLEgM4&feature=related

did Aussies have something to do with this?

The only problem I have with nu-Daleks is the rubbish plots.

can we get back to the matter at hand, which is that this new K-9 is a fucking travesty and we owe it to future generations to hunt it down and beat it with bats

bats with spikes in them, that may or may not be on fire

but it's john leeson!

preferably rabid

xp: John Leeson will be spared; I doubt he wrote the script or submitted the designs

adam did the aussies produce this?

I wonder if everyone at Dan's place of work knows why he is in a bad mood?

adam did the aussies produce this?

― Shakey Moe Szyslak (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 16 December 2010 08:38 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's shot here because it's cheaper (or at least it was before our dollar went atomic). The bits that I saw featured British parts played by Australian actors with appalling accents. I don't know who bankrolls it.

(i = adam)

youre as bad as me & dan for getting a new account.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-9_%28TV_series%29

The project is being overseen by Baker;[6][7] the television series concept was developed by Australian writers Shane Krause and Shayne Armstrong, in association with (Bob) Baker and Paul Tams.[10] ... In July 2007, the Australian Film Finance Corporation approved funding for the series, and that the programme had been pre-sold to Network Ten.[11] The Pacific Film and Television Commission (PFTC) (subsequently renamed Screen Queensland) also provided additional financing.[10]

Kids' television is pretty much the only good production coming out of Australia atm but I don't think think counts.

xp I had to for reasons that are too annoying to impart here. Who are you?

I'm the guy who usually invited your multiple usernames into chatz

agh crap I can't remember back that far, sorry. Once I know it will be obvious. btw multiple usernames for chatz was because AIM kept blocking the Linux client I was using.

I know that. I am one who likes pfunk

okay my mind has been blown; MEKHI PHIFER IS GOING TO BE ON TORCHWOOD

wau

xp OH AHH. See that was my first thought but I forgot/didn't know you had a DW thing going on. Was thinking aldo but didn't remember there being a chatz assoc.

haha we spoke DW a lot, you really do have a bad memory!

sorry ;_;

I remember the funk discussions obv.

lololol apparently I posted this K-9 monstrosity on Facebook in April 2009

haha talk of bad memories!!

please say that you said you liked it in 2009!

Did I mention that I gave up on DW this year? Because yeah. K-9 would probably be more fulfilling tbh.

I had the exact same "STOP RUINING MY CHILDHOOD" reaction, sorry

I like matt smith but the stories weren't really any good. Same with most of the Tennant era really. God help us if we ever get a colin baker type shit doctor.

I thought both "The Lodger" and the one with the Angels was very good. I think the big problem was that they had issues defining what the interplay between Amy and The Doctor should be; the initial episode strikes a very good balance but as the season goes along she sometimes veers into budget-Donna territory and isn't very convincing as a result.

Most of the stories were saved by Matt Smith's surprisingly great Doctor, though.

Season 5 is amazing, u mad. xp

Like, I love this season to a degree that I have to judge myself for liking it *too* much.

Rory was great pretty much the entire time he was onscreen, too.

All the Moffat-penned ones were good, all the ones written by others were a bit balls.

Lodger was the best of those though.

I liked the characters, they were great, but the stories just weren't there and haven't been for ages.

oh, and "Amy's Choice" was pretty great, too!

yeah actually I did like this season a lot

The only one I really disliked was the Silurian two-parter.

Oh yeah, forgot about Amy's Choice. I didn't think it lived up to its potential, but it was definitely decent.

Back to K-9 for a moment: how can this show be anything other than total garbage?

NO LAUGHING = NO K-9 THEREFORE ITS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROBOT DOG AND HOW ABOUT YOU CALL IT ANOTHER NAME

In other news, I'm very much in love with Matt Smith

"Victory of the Daleks" was the season clunker IMO

ARGH I HAD GOTTEN THE HATRED OUT OF MY BODY AND HERE YOU ARE PUSHING IT BACK IN KILL THIS BASTARD K-9 AND ALL THAT IT STANDS FOR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx3tXw7TU58

NEVER FORGET

I love how we can get a huge new post count just because of a tin dog regenerating! lol

I want to be Sarah Jane in these credits, wearing legwarmers and drinking wine while I work. xp

Vampires in Venice and The Silurians were mediocre potboliers (also the new Silurian design was so bland!) The Van Gogh one was too slushy and manipulative, hello Richard Curtis.

aw I thought the Van Gogh one was nice. Nothing wrong with a sappy story now and again.

it says a fucking lot that I can look at the K-9 and company credits and go "lol, that is so dated and terrible, yet still endearing *chuckle*" when the them song includes K-9 SINGING of all things

K-9 paid his dues as a minor character & helping in adventures so the least they could do was let him sing his own theme song.

As long as that doesn't happen in the Rory spinoff.

Fairly vocally said I wasn't that impressed with this series, but it was better than maybe any of the DT ones (although there's actually a couple of really good eps in the Donna series, the first one is almost sub-Avengers).

I love A Girl's Best Friend, I really do. I have never managed to watch one of this series, despite the fact I have them lurking somewhere.

xpost I totally want Rory to sing his own themesong. Are you kidding?

Leeson tells a story somewhere (might be on the DVD for that) about recording the theme song, that Ian had him in to say "K-9" twice and that was it.

I have a feeling it would be indie-schmindie as hell. xp

I'm picture more 90's house

ugh picturing

Really, Tennant/Donna and Tennant/Martha were way way better than Tennant/Rose, which is kind of a shame because Rose is great.

Oh I saw the Cybermen episodes over the weekend with Rose in her alterna universe and I got SO sad bc I miss her terribly

I HATED Tennant/Rose. I think RTD starting writing Rose completely differently than in the first season, and she became this lovesick little groupie. xp

Rose was ballsy and great and I would fall in love with David Tennant too, who can blame her

(this is going to turn into a crazy cage match with chairs & ladders, I can feel it)

Naw, I know a lot of people really liked them together but I could just never get into it.

I feel kind of bad for spamming this thread tonight but I have to work late by myself tonight so I really have nothing else to do but talk about Doctor who.

martha was the biggest waste of space since adric

well the thing is at least with Martha was at least that was directly in the character from the beginning; with Rose it sort of seemed to pop in from nowhere and was kind of cruel and callous towards Mickey in the process

xp: OKAY NOW THERE WILL BE FIGHTING

MARTHA WAS FUCKING GREAT, AT ALL TIMES, FOREVER AND EVER AMEN

new K9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Martha

Martha seemed a bit too meek or something. Like she never fully believed that it was even happening until RIGHT at the end and then where are you. Nowhere. but she was beautiful and she's an excellent addition to the Torchwood organization.

Donna was fun, I liked her, bc no worries about mooney eyes or falling in luff...and her family, old gramps and crazy Mum were fun. Like the old days with Rose's mum.

But my favorite is still Rose. And I liked how she was with Mickey, reminded me of ppl I knew in my hometown who had been dating since godknows when.

ugh rose's mum was the pits

RARRR BRING YER CHAIR AND YER LADDER, IT'S CAGE MATCH TIME.

Oh I quite liked Rose's mum, she was a recognisable type.

Martha yesterday
http://www.jaaroncaststone.com/pics/wood_info_pages/plank_example.jpg

I liked her better than Rose, tbh. xp

lol @ GiS. someone please photoshop martha onto one of these planks of wood
http://www.fox-hound.us/misc/Keanu-Plank.jpg

Amy Pond still drives me round the twist bc she's so flighty and sort of, bipolar or something. Fun, and strange and cute but also routinely want to strangle her

LOLWUT:

Bill Pullman (Ruthless People, Independence Day) has signed on to star in the upcoming fourth season of Torchwood as a regular. Pullman — who joins series stars John Barrowman, Eva Myles and the just-cast Mekhi Phifer — will play Oswald Jones, a dangerously clever convicted murderer who escapes his lifelong prison sentence on a technicality and quickly becomes a media sensation. Genuinely repentant yet boiling with lust and rage, Oswald gets caught up in a terrifying worldwide crisis.

Weird.

I am loling right now imaging Bill Pullman "boiling with lust and rage".

bit like dan with K9 and Martha

I don't think I want Bill Pullman & Barrowman to make out. (And I am as a rule amenable to Barrowman making out with pretty much anyone)

They should bring back Spike from Buffy instead. James Marsters? Masters? that guy. Him.

I like this past season a lot. Victory of the Daleks was kinda crap (and also apparently written for Tennant)... but the weeping angel two-parter and the two-part finale were fantastic IMO. Thought the Beast Below was kinda dumb too, but it still had me in suspense.

What I love best about the season is that it did very little to resolve Amy's weird background the fact that her life just doesn't make sense. So that all has to still be resolved. Moffatt had us all convinced that her mysterious life had everything to do with the cracks but they were their own thing after all. Also the unresolved issue of someone in current day London trying to grow a new TARDIS....

Who could that be? My money is on Omega. He "died" in the 70s on Earth and if anyone would know how to make a TARDIS out of 20th/21st century tech it would be the original inventor of time travel himself. Assuming he got all that 'existing as anti-matter' stuff worked out...

Omega would be a good baddie to revive. Personally I'd like the Meddling Monk to make a reappearance, but can't see that happening.

K9 got his own series? Uh? Why?

I enjoyed most of the last DW series a lot, and not all of it was because the series before was so utterly atrocious.

AND THEN CRUSH THE PERSON WHO MADE THE DESIGNER DESIGN IT,

RIP K-9 creator Bob Baker, heaven needed the victim of Dang P3rry's bloody rage

Dan should be the next Master.

That would be as fantastic as Pope Dan.

OH, imagine the rages he would get into.

I got off the Amy Pond bus in episode three when she turned up without credentials at Churchill's office and he just let her have the run of the place. (1) she was in a ridiculous miniskirt (2) her miniskirt was ridiculous (3) Churchill would NEVER have done that EVER. Gatiss phoning it in as usual.

Then they ruined RUINED the weeping angels, then there was some silliness with Rory and I just got bored. Didn't watch the last few episodes (and I have watched Trial three times so my standards are not exactly stratospheric), although 'er indoors/Petula/SBF was particularly touched by the ending of Van Gogh despite her view that the whole rest of the episode was pants.

I'm with AG in liking Matt Smith but I still don't feel he has the gravitas to pull it off (granted Tennant is one hell of an act to follow). I'm also with Pashmina in being horrified by the compost that was 2009 (apart from Water(s) of Mars which had merit).

Martha was great and her stories were brilliant although Agyeman's acting was meh. Donna was top in all areas except the stories were not compelling. These are facts and I will challenge all comers.

you should watch the last three of S5 Adam, they were great

BTW we are showing Dr Who At The Proms AND A Christmas Carol on Boxing Day, and the tape for the latter is IN THE BUILDING already

O________O

;_;

WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT WHEN I AM STANDING IN A CAGE HOLDING A CHAIR AND A LADDER

sorry. shouting a lot today. I had too much soda.

The thing that annoys me most about this year is that I had expected more inventiveness from Moffat. He's an intelligent and witty writer with real courage and excellent ideas, but it really feels like he was railroaded into protecting the property by playing it safe.

I like to think that now there's a RTD clause added to his contract like "ABSOLUTELY NO TARDIS CAR CHASES".

okay I'm ripping out the caps lock for the rest of the day

Amy is the Dom Passantino of Doctor Who, a barely fleshed out zing monster. Even Moffatt said as much, but maintains there is a reason for it and it's linked to the mid-season cliffhanger.

The fake TARDIS from The Lodger reminded me most of a Jagaroth spaceship, but then somebody who wasn't me did say Omega upthread...

hooray Schlafsack holds all my same opinions about S5 so i don't have to type them out.

tbh the new series started losing me in the second episode, when Matt Smith had to get all shouty and rageful about everyone choosing to use the forget-things machine. it felt too soon and too sudden to go full-on blamey rage guy, and to me it was the first sign that maybe moffat didn't have as firm a grip on the reins as i anticipated. and then there was amy miniskirting around saying lines clearly meant for donna in the dalek episode, and the bullshit about "o the weeping angels THINK you are watching them so they froze anyway, lol." i still watched the whole season, but i felt detached from it in a way i never did in even the worst pit of RTD hell ("planet of the dead" ugh).

hooray Schlafsack holds all my same opinions about S5 so i don't have to type them out.

<3

'Detached' is a brilliant way to describe this series btw. I really tried to get into this year but I just couldn't, and that overwhelming feeling of detachment hits me every time I entertain the thought of trying again.

Amy is the Dom Passantino of Doctor Who, a barely fleshed out zing monster.

also, eye candy

i know you have a thing for dom but c'mon now

ay what's wrong with ridiculous miniskirts

S5 was a marked improvement on just about every level. That one episode of Sarah Jane that Rusty wrote was an instant reminder of how unbearably clunking his scripts had become. I honestly don't think I could have stuck another DW series if he'd stuck around.

the season did suffer from the 2nd and 3rd eps being clunky in extremis but if you like Smith you MUST watch The Lodger adam!

the rules of the Angels being rewritten would annoy me enormously if the episodes weren't totally fantastic on their own terms

the rules of the Angels being rewritten

still not sure they were really, apart from the major thing about them all being Angels

tbh now i'm confused about how the whole "angels freeze because they THINK they are being observed" thing works. the old idea was that when you looked at the angels, YOU were the active force stopping them. you, resisting the urge to blink, were the force keeping them motionless. but now it's suggesting there's an element of choice involved? or something? "i think we should quantum lock now because we're being looked at...oh shit we're totally not being looked at, never mind."

sometimes my brain remembers the awesome first 5 minutes of the second ep and is still genuinely baffled to remember that it turned into Her Majesty vs the Space Dolphins

that should've been the title (space whale tho yeah?)

I enjoyed The Beast Below, largely cos I think Liz 10 is a great character, and Sophie Okenado is always terrific. It was a bit of mess, but at least a mess based on interesting ideas rather than here are some monsters which the Doctor must run away from.

Amy is the Dom Passantino of Doctor Who, a barely fleshed out zing monster.

That is just RONG, I love her. Maybe because I myself am a zing monster, I don't know.

Fans of Karen Gillan should check out this week's Shortlist magazine, available free from their nearest (UK) train station.
http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/gallery/615/karen-gillan-wants-a-word

she is as "fleshed out" as she need be for now and i really liked her interplay with the Doctor (inc the sex not love thing) and if she ends up saving the universe without his direct help at any point i will be pissed off. still don't think rory and her work as a couple but i like him too.

Oh FFS Amy isn't "barely fleshed out" (compared to who exactly? Rose? Martha? Any companion pre-1988?) her personality has been actually reset two or three times in the space of one series.

The one thing Tennant couldn't do was "gravitas". Smith is a bit better at it by virtue of having a deeper voice and being a bit uglier.

All the Moffat-penned ones were good, all the ones written by others were a bit balls.

This is it really. Don't think he played it remotely safe actually, if anything the last ep would have been too confusing for some viewers.

Moffat didn't write "Amy's Choice" or "The Lodger" and both of those are as good as Moffat's stories; actually both are better than Moffat's "The Beast Below".

The one thing Tennant couldn't do was "gravitas". Smith is a bit better at it by virtue of having a deeper voice and being a bit uglier.

disagree based largely on Human Nature/FOB and TGITF - i think only Rusty-written Tennant is where it didn't come off well

if anything the last ep would have been too confusing for some viewers

it was for me also i can never forgive the 'Doctor rescues himself' paradox - pretty good apart from that tho

That isn't gravitas, that's "sad because my girlfriend has died", which he's pretty good at. Gravitas is standing in front of invading aliens and telling them to turn back or face the consequences.

Gravitas is a quality of substance or depth of personality.

how the hell does this not apply to Moffat and Cornell's handling of Tennant's relationship issues in the aforementioned eps?!

i mean gravitas isn't just how convincingly angry you can be

Okay he's good at doing convincingly sad and less good at doing convincingly angry, then.

I was going to list some counter-examples but, even though I can visualize them clearly, I'll be fucked if I can remember which episodes they were in.

xp but his suppressed anger at the end of FOB when punishing them was good too and its too bad RTD didn't do that more himself

tbh i think part of the problem is that Tennant had to adopt extreme emotional responses while also doing the chirpy Southern UK accent and that probably affected his ragey moments. Matt Smith playing the Doctor with more or less his normal irl voice probably gives him the edge as his own repressed emotional responses are just naturally more convincing. This is also why Eccleston worked so well in angry mode.

if you like Smith you MUST watch The Lodger adam!

I'll give it another go but tbh I'm not running all the way.

Wait what is The Lodger? (Too lazy to google)

the episode from last season with the Doctor sharing a flat with "popular" comic actor James Corden

it's certainly worth seeing from the background season-spanning arc pov

Oh lol I thought it was like a separate TV series. YES. The Lodge is great. Especially Matt-Smith-plays-pub-football scenes...I heard him say in an interview when he was in college he was actually going to be a footballer until he injured his knee or something. :D

Not :D for injuring his knee. But :D for him playing football.

xp but his suppressed anger at the end of FOB when punishing them was good too and its too bad RTD didn't do that more himself

ugh HATED this bcz he just stands there with a cob on and GROWING SUPER POWERS OUT OF THIN AIR

^That's just Tennant giving his 'good Carrie' impression.

what super powers?

"trapping people in a mirror dimension like the Richard Donner Phantom Zone" powers

"transforming people into scarecrows" powers

"magicing up unbreakable chains and wrapping them around people with his mind" powers

ha, the mirror and scarecrow ones were great, didn't put any of this down to 'super powers' more like some practically magic devices he had lying around the TARDIS...but it doesn't matter how!

didn't like the chains one and the one where he "tricks" the woman into a black hole or something tho

I felt "detached" about Matt Smith at first, but by the end of the season (starting from that daft vampire story) he was knocking 'em out the park.

Also, COME ON, that last episode was probably one of the best ever, I think.

Fez!

I *cried* during the part where he is giving his speech to young Amelia, I am pathetic.

Orrite, fez moment was a genuine flash of genius, I'll give you that.

xpost Nicole, I did too. Blubbering idiot, me

Ugh. Awful. I actually said out loud how bad it was more than once when it was on.

Ah c'mon. Climbing into the film, and "I am. I'm showing you now" - brilliant.

Schmaltzy as hell and purely for the kiddies but I loved it. Best Christmas special by some margin.

H8 Katherine Jenkins though.

Dr was a bit thick to not notice the days counting down. And of course he could have whisked her off to some future planet of medicine, bish bosh all yer ills cured with a pill. But who's nit picking.

Throwing away the cornerstone of NuWho to go back and change the history of an individual?

Singing to fish makes them peaceful? Worst shoehorning of guest star evarr.

How did the close-to-death shark get into the basement from the roof, since the clouds had lifted so much that it couldn't even breathe any more? And how did it manage to live for that long (from Gambon being, what, 10 to his current age)?

When did Gambon's actual brain change, because how you think shouldn't change your brain pattern (if that's how it works)?

Why did Gambon's dad take fatally ill people as downpayment? It's not much of an incentive, is it - this person who's going to die will LIVE if you don't pay me! Also, not exactly moral of the Doctor to just leave all those people frozen, is it? He's certainly changed since New Earth when he risked everything to save a room full of people locked in cells who were fatally infected...

Riding behind a shark is the new jumping it.

I guess that means it's me nitpicking by the way.

Never change.

okay I'll skip this thread again then.

great ep btw

Four adults and four kids watching that one. And we all thought it was terrible. It managed to be boring, which is the cardinal sin of Whodom. Too many plot holes for comfort, too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/noodle_vague/Teyla-rolling-her-eyes.gif

doctor who is rubbish

doctor who is in the gutter

fyi bbc america is marathoning all the specials since davies so i'm drinkin n watchin and i will with pride report on respective quality

this is the first special since Davies hoos

like 'all the specials since davis took over and beyond' i meant

wow ok whatever this is, i guess last year's xmas special with dr song and there's gilliam and there's smith, already its' rad. whole diff feel and pacing

i haven't seen anything since tennant left so this is a helluva way to start off, instantly so diff

ahhhhh what a rad open

Yeah the Moffatt/Smith era has gone for a much more magical/children's fiction feel, which is why this was so good at actually feeling Christmassy (as opposed to companion's family bickering round the turkey). Which is why things like the lifespans of flying sharks or why all the soot suddenly disappeared from the Doctor or whatever don't really matter.

A sort of cross between Christmas Carol and that episode of Star Trek with Joan Collins

Liked bits of that but it was rather slow in places. Needed more fish and less singing.

(at the time I assumed her family prob thought they had been quite clever giving him a fatally ill woman as their loan security, so I didn't see that as a plot hole at all, but I guess having a big counter of days until death on her ice-box was a bit of a giveaway to him so eh. still I am happy with the slightly creepy childhood dream style of magickal bollocks from Moffat where RTD's magic nonsense plot resolutions made me itchy)

i didn't realize this was the 3rd special with smith already, where the fuck have the years gone

not really interested in doctor who but saw a bit of this and that redhead assistant is just ridiculously hot

no joke

http://www.comicsreporter.com/images/uploads/aldo.jpg

this thread, you guys

Thought this was pretty bad. It mostly seemed to be an advert for Katherine Jenkins CDs. The CGI looked awful. The schmaltz was pretty terribly overboard and the plot holes were glaring, but those things can often be made up for - they just weren't on this occasion.

ha that rapid fire deduction at the start is v holmes

omg Nicole thank you for the Aldo jpg

I liked this special a lot. I will admit the "Back to the Future"-trained part of my brain was freaking out abt young & old versions of the same guy being in the same timeline together. Definitely way less embarrassing than cyber-cavemen or machine gun robo-Santas or space Titanic. Felt more scifi-y than xmasy but that's fine with me. Also the shark singing woman had my same name and there was a lot of cool knitted stuff in this ep so those are two sweet onuses that probably no one else got qa kick out of.

haha onuses was supposed to be
bonuses

lol

i didn't realize this was the 3rd special with smith already, where the fuck have the years gone

this is the first special since Davies hoos!

wtf are you watching?

or why all the soot suddenly disappeared from the Doctor or whatever don't really matter.

he's still a bit sooty out in the fog, he doesn't get properly clean until after he's spent a few hours or days or weeks travelling around in time finding Michael Gambon's old home movies and accumulating enough local currency to bribe Gambon's entire staff AND Mrs Mantovani - plenty of time to take a sonic shower in the TARDIS during all that

^^ expert plothole filling-in, there, take a moment to appreciate, you don't see it every day

(also, the close-to-death shark got from the roof to the basement and was able to breathe because the place was built on a fog marsh and therefore fish could live in the cellar, this was actually explained?)

I wished with the singing they'd chosen slightly less religious carols or elided out the most jesus-y bits, it kind of didn't seem appropriate to the magical scifi future her to be warbling 'our god heavn cannot hold him nor earth sustain' (you aren't on earth anymore!!). and considering they cut the carols weirdly anyway...

(also, the close-to-death shark got from the roof to the basement and was able to breathe because the place was built on a fog marsh and therefore fish could live in the cellar, this was actually explained?)

No, the fog had lifted from the roof and it couldn't even swim any more because of it - have no problem with the basement being a fog marsh* but there was no way for it to get there. I suppose the hand-wavy answer is that enough fog had escaped from the basement and worked its way through the house to support the shark...

* no, wait, there is. The whole thing is about seeing a fish because everyone else at school has and he's the only one that hasn't. Then the kid shows abolutely no surprise that his basement is full of them (ignoring the frozen bodies) and even explains why, like he's always known, even implying he's been down there before with his father (which is why he knows about Abagail). Surely that would be the best story for a 10 year old possible! Also, he's quite comfortable in and around them, but it was established in the scene before where he doesn't see the small one and only sees the shark as it comes through the door then dies/not dies that he hasn't seen any.

the basement's not full of them the first time iirc, it's on a subsequent awakening that Smith flashes the half-a-screwdriver at one?

Dr was a bit thick to not notice the days counting down.

Smith's Dr has been established as a) easily distracted and b) prone to missing things rly rly obviously under his nose (not the first Dr like this, but it was hammered home in the immediately previous story) - once the alarm goes off and distracts him, it makes sense that he doesn't spot it again - they're always poised to get her out and partying, with hats and scarves and fezzes ahoy, rather than studying the box for the first time as when the shark's in it

Nah, all you see of subsequent awakenings is a KJenks POV shot of them saying Happy Christmas Eve! until the last one.

ps lol Geordie LaForge

no, we definitely see Smith flashing his light at a fish while mini-Gambon's saying goodbye one time

I'll take your word for it then, I'm not rewatching to check.

This was basically not a bad story, but parts of it were so so aggravating, like to a baffling extent. HATED the singing, and Murray Gold completely undid himself in terms of making you want to find the nearest orchestra, then round up its members and execute them. Poor old Amy had absolutely FA to do, which made me a bit sad. On the plus side, the steam punk design was quite nice.

I have not said Blinivitch Limitation Effect at any point, you will notice.

Structurally this wasn't actually that different to what Moffatt had the Doctor doing in The Girl In The Fireplace or Blink - messing around with an individual's future from some point in the past. Suppose this is the first time he made them into such a radically different person but hey that's because it's a Christmas Carol.

Also, not exactly moral of the Doctor to just leave all those people frozen, is it? He's certainly changed since New Earth when he risked everything to save a room full of people locked in cells who were fatally infected...

I assume new, nice Gambon would have let them out. Actually he probably would have let them out years beforehand but whatever.

Why did Young Dumbledore continue to uphold the 'Christmas Tradition' of letting KJenks out every year once he knew she only had a week to live? Wouldn't it make more sense to a 10 year old boy's brain to give her a week with Old Dumbledore instead?

He didn't know she only had a week to live until the Marilyn party. At that point they stopped letting her out and he told the Doctor to stop bothering and started to turn into dickish old Dumbledore.

I mean we don't know how much young Dumbledore knew about all of that beyond "I grow up into an evil monster". I sort of missed the bit when the Doctor put him back though.

When Young Dumbledore appeared at the end (the whole Ghost of Christmas Future bit) he finds out the whole story about her before any of it started (that was him from the first time they met). So he willingly denied his later self extra time with her by using it up on their Christmas Eve trips - even the ones where he was too young to FEEL THE LURVE.

Actually, that means when she tells him (on their last Christmas Eve trip) it shouldn't affect him because he knows already.

the audience just hasn't seen the bit where the doctor goes back and changes that

Top Rusty handwaving, that.

it's Moffatt's handwave!

I guess the kid at the end now has to leave everyone locked up all thos years bcz he knows 4003 people will die otherwise?

No, I meant your handwave - Moffatt didn't even attempt to explain it.

Where were the Time Pterodactyls from "Father's Day"?

It's less handwaving and more "don't look at the problem and pretend it doesn't exist because 99% of your audience doesn't care". He's already had two Amy's running around together.

Still, the kid has to keep letting Katherine Jenkins out because a) if he doesn't she has no emotional resonance for his future self and the Doctor's plan falls apart b) the Doctor keeps coming back and encouraging him and c) he is a child with an evil father and no friends and you do not deprive a child with an evil father and no friends of his one bit of fun and adventure at Christmas. Also the level of resolve required in later years would be frankly beyond any teenage boy.

If 99% of your audience doesn't care then don't put in in-jokes like the Christmas Eve numbered 4 featuring the pair of them wearing long scarves. We did this in the Rusty era too, that you can't simultaneously say that continuity doesn't matter at the same time as putting in lots of jokes 'for the fans'.

Why do I put myself through this every time? Maybe I should just stick to watching The Aztecs.

Bah humbug? :)

No, I meant your handwave - Moffatt didn't even attempt to explain it.

It's a Moffatt quote.

(his attitude generally towards the story was clearly illustrated in the bit with the non-existent fish nipping at Smith and mini-Gambon going "shurrup and just enjoy it!"*)

you can't simultaneously say that continuity doesn't matter at the same time as putting in lots of jokes 'for the fans'.

of course you can! a mildly amusing in-joke for someone who spots in in the two half-second bits it's on screen doesn't require EVERYONE to have read a dozen Virgin Adventures.

* admittedly this attitude (re Christmas capers particularly, though RTD cranked it up all the time) was inherited from Rusty, on whom I hated it and felt insulted as an audient, whereas I am happy to go with it for Moffatt bcz a) I like the tone of his stories much better and b) his holes are small things that you might as well ignore if you go in wanting to have fun, whereas Rusty's were enormous, stupid, and horrible that would snap you out of being able to have fun v v often.

I enjoyed but I was so tired that the fact of the fish themselves really annoyed me in a "Oh come on" way.
I'm going to rewatch bc I drifted off in a couple of parts.
So that singing lady really does sing like that irl?

^^ I also enjoyed aldo's nitpicking moany attitude on Rusty thread's bcz I agreed with him there, but wish there was a 48-hour aldo moratorium on Smith-era threads bcz he harshes the general buzz that I now want to let settle before thinking back over them too much. tl;dr = Veg otm in previous xpost, lol

^^ although I did see this one 9 days ago and had a lovely few days of "that was fun" before rolling nitpicks around in my head and waiting to rewatch on tx

When did Gambon's actual brain change, because how you think shouldn't change your brain pattern (if that's how it works)?

btw i don't think this happened? what i understood from the action was that bcz baby-Gambon became a different kind of person after hanging out w K Jenkins and the Doctor, so his dad didn't consider him a fit successor and chose someone else for the controls to be isomorphically bonded to.

why the controls were nevertheless still in his living room (why it was still his living room), though, no idea.

No, the Doctor specifically says it doesn't work because Old Dumbledore isn't the same man any more because the plot has changed him.

If that's a genuine Moffatt handwave then megalulz@that, he's even lazier than Lawrence Miles thinks he is.

ps lol Geordie LaForge

― Stay J0rdan Fresh (sic), Sunday, December 26, 2010 2:27 AM (5 hours ago)

Mary Worth to thread, she would know what to do.

pretty sure Moffat's lazy when it comes to anything that isn't about the different narrative possibilities of time travel. it's his silly, contrary response to Rusty's technobabble ie "big, flashy, lighty thing", as opposed to some nonsense about reversing the polarity of the quantum electrodimensional charge or wtv. Hell he even pokes fun at himself for doing it - we're clearly meant to take the kid's side and think the shark just liked Abigail's singing as opposed to the Doctor going on about her voice having the right frequency.

I dunno, Moffatt-era plotholes would annoy me if they were on any other season/tv show but I'm not really bothered by them for some reason. Maybe it's cause even at his darkest, he seems to write primarily for kids and thus looks at small details with a "the kids aren't going to care, why should we?" attitude. plus sometimes i suspect he puts them in just to annoy aldo(s).

didn't see why this couldn't have had a bit more amy or rory btw - it was a bit boring with the Doctor not having anyone to exchange zings with.

Kid who played young Michael Gambon was a good little actor, I thought.

didn't see why this couldn't have had a bit more amy or rory btw - it was a bit boring with the Doctor not having anyone to exchange zings with.

Yeah! Not sure I agree with your statement, but making Rory really prominent midway through last season was a great move.

Rory listed in the opening credits for the first time I noticed.