RIP Mark E. Smith

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deserves its own thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQMP0G0-hQM

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:50 (one year ago) Permalink

the fire has fallen

#TeamHailing (imago), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:51 (one year ago) Permalink

The day I've been dreading.

"It is with deep regret that we announce the passing of Mark E. Smith. He passed this morning at home.... 1/2

— Fall news (@fallnews) January 24, 2018

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:51 (one year ago) Permalink

He certainly does deserve his own thread.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:51 (one year ago) Permalink

i found this out just now while grocery shopping. it is a weird walk home now. this one hurts a lot

#TeamHailing (imago), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink

I can't believe he was only 60. RIP

flappy bird, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:54 (one year ago) Permalink

RIP iconoclast.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:54 (one year ago) Permalink

holy shit this sucks

hoooyaaargh it's me satan (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:55 (one year ago) Permalink

to say he was one of a kind doesn't begin to cover it

rest in peace mark

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:57 (one year ago) Permalink

God motherfucking damnit man

This really hurts.

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:58 (one year ago) Permalink

I feel like I was ready for this one, at least

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, I knew this was coming.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:05 (one year ago) Permalink

It was coming. But still.

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Shit didn't catch this in time. But as I say on previous thread. This is a major loss for me. I will his presence very very much. Godspeed MES! You were one of the greats. much as he disliked such things I am So glad that he was recognized in his lifetime. He was a total one off. Ok now to play that Live at Hacienda 83-85 dvd and remind myself once again what an amazing man he was.

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Wtf happened? Had he been ill?

treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:07 (one year ago) Permalink

yes

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:08 (one year ago) Permalink

The greatest lyricist in musical history, to such an extent that the word ‘lyrics’ is unfit to describe what he did. Other than miles, probably the greatest assembler-of-performers-into-something-unforeseeable there ever was. Like Scott Walker his effect on me spreads way beyond music and art. At his frequent best he was onto source code for whatever this is we are all part of here.
Vale Mark E. Smith I will never forget you.

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:10 (one year ago) Permalink

I haven't bothered with the Fall for well over 20 years but he is still the single most important figure in my musical life. Was.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

fuck

your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

RIP hip priest. he was damo suzuki

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp their later work is shockingly strong, check out The Unutterable, Our Future Your Clutter, and "The Real New Fall LP" for proof

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:14 (one year ago) Permalink

He was Dylan, Beefheart and Lou in one for me. I used to joke that he was my Bob Dylan.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:15 (one year ago) Permalink

RIP Mark, thanks for being the best thing this terrible country has produced in the last 60 years

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:16 (one year ago) Permalink

First saw him/them when I was still at school, they played in Paisley, in a venue that is now a tapas bar - Paisley version - where me, my mum and my sister went for a meal when I was up for Christmas!

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:19 (one year ago) Permalink

The Blue Orchids played there around the same time.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:20 (one year ago) Permalink

My missus just said the P4k obit describes him as coming from a "middle class background"!

calzino, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:24 (one year ago) Permalink

LOL 'mericans.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:25 (one year ago) Permalink

woah this is crazy, did not see this coming

RIP MES

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:25 (one year ago) Permalink

im eternally grateful

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:26 (one year ago) Permalink

this just going round in my head now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9zTSvEpt_8

faust apes (NickB), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:27 (one year ago) Permalink

well fuck this

fuck death

Dinsdale, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:34 (one year ago) Permalink

The obit on the guardian is such a mess, clearly a draft they had ready but didn't check, deserves better

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Was it removed? Can't find anything about it on their site

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:37 (one year ago) Permalink

RIP.

Although I've been preparing myself for this news for months. In some ways, I find it remarkable that he made it to 60.

Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh shit huge loss RIP

kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:38 (one year ago) Permalink

RIP Mark

heaven can now have killer sessions again, they are back together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtIPlWzM84c

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:40 (one year ago) Permalink

A bit gobsmacked by this, although I knew he'd been unwell. RIP MES. Thanks for the legacy.

Jeff W, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

His death was previously wrongly announced by the BBC in March last year, on his 60th birthday.

Nice way to end your obit, Graun, real classy

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

i always felt like the fall had so much vitriol, so unrelenting, that when he did have the rare moment of tenderness it was so much more affecting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbMG1v7qDqs

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah know what you mean, gutted

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:43 (one year ago) Permalink

xp Marc Riley is playing this right now on 6Music <3

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Shit news but not unexpected after recent events.

RIP

groovypanda, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:44 (one year ago) Permalink

i always felt like the fall had so much vitriol, so unrelenting, that when he did have the rare moment of tenderness it was so much more affecting

absolutely

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:47 (one year ago) Permalink

(thanks for the tip on 6music Neil)

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:48 (one year ago) Permalink

This song was my Fall gateway. Intro'd here by Tony Wilson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wygQmJ59E4Q

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Thinking of Fizzles the Chimp, sorry for your loss.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:54 (one year ago) Permalink

ah bollocks. :c RIP.

Ludo, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Up here in the North there are no wage packet jobs for us
Thank Christ
While young married couples discuss the poverties
Of their self-built traps
And the junior clergy demand more cash
We spit in their plate and wait for the ice to melt

the girl with the rub-on tattoo (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:57 (one year ago) Permalink

man, shit.

andrew m., Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:57 (one year ago) Permalink

I can never tell if “Bill is Dead” is genuinely tender or totally vicious satire. Maybe both, who knows.

JoeStork, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:58 (one year ago) Permalink

not

Thinking of Fizzles the Chimp, sorry for your loss.


thanks tom. not ready to do this right now. rip.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:58 (one year ago) Permalink

They obviously had their differences but Marc Riley seems properly rattled and emotional right now

groovypanda, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 20:58 (one year ago) Permalink

text a v good friend and fall fan (we used to get stoned as teenagers and listen to their records):

“I know you said when you saw the Fall last he looked like he was ill. And that it was one of their best ever performances you'd seen”

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:01 (one year ago) Permalink

I was playing 'Fortress/deer park' in the car on the way home today (thanks to an Uncut freebie - worth the money for once but anyway) and wondered how long he had left.

Having said that, I'm never more than a month away from having played some Fall, and I made a point of playing that Singles (a's and b's) before he goes..

So, bring on the tribs. Including the News at ten..

Mark G, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:13 (one year ago) Permalink

he may have ended with his most challenging record to date (New Facts Emerge) which is really fucking saying something

"Couples vs. Jobless Mid 30s" is such an insane piece of work

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:14 (one year ago) Permalink

"Couples vs. Jobless Mid 30s"

speaking of which, greatest song/album title-r in rock history??

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:15 (one year ago) Permalink

yep :) to both your posts

#TeamHailing (imago), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Man City team must surely wear black armbands on SUnday as he was the only famous person who admitted to supporting them for about 30 years or so.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:16 (one year ago) Permalink

even his crap albums were called things like Are You Are Missing Winner, making them actually not-crap. and then you listen and realise they were never crap

#TeamHailing (imago), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:17 (one year ago) Permalink

there's them gallaghers but totally agree that they should xp

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Just chuckling away at "Cary Grant's Wedding" right now.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Literally chuckling.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:22 (one year ago) Permalink

someone on facebook said he wrote a note to be read to the crowd at the last cancelled show? is there a link to it?

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:23 (one year ago) Permalink

I can never tell if “Bill is Dead” is genuinely tender or totally vicious satire. Maybe both, who knows.

Is the Fall's 'Bill is dead' the most romantic song ever written?

Going to go with genuinely tender.

Dan Worsley, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Just chuckling away at "Cary Grant's Wedding" right now.


^ otm

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Np YFOC really fuckin loud

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:24 (one year ago) Permalink

xxpost Scott, here

A Message to All, to All. From Mark E. Smith/The Fall group. As I, like Pr Rupert leave Bristol with my tail between my legs, I wish to give my great apologies to everybody. This idiotic idea to do both shows was purely my idea, against the advice of Pamela and The Fall group, agent & promoter. Hope to replace shows within 4 - 6 weeks. In the interim we have eight new songs ready to go and will try and let you hear a few before Christmas. From head patient to you, the patients. I love you all but cannot embrace you all, Mark E. Smith

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:24 (one year ago) Permalink

just said to a friend:

i'm not interested in sentimentality about this. they always reached beyond, into and around death, mocking and laughing and vicious. idk. memorialise, feel sad, but stand up.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:25 (one year ago) Permalink

O
T
M

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Hard to be sad listening to them, he was so fucking funny.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:26 (one year ago) Permalink

YFOC such a classic album xp

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:26 (one year ago) Permalink

yes to Fizzles, proper response here is "LOL fuk u death" IMO

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:26 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBUiPs1PxKo

this will never not cheer me up

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Completely gutted and fucked right now. Someone queue up a the live vers of "NWRA" from the Part of America Therein at brain bleeding volumes and I'll take a Laphroaig and Peroni while yr up.

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Hard to be sad listening to them, he was so fucking funny.


this. such energy and hilarious mockery, cheer and bloody inventiveness and joy in language and the shitness of the world.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

The great palimpsest

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:28 (one year ago) Permalink

yes to Fizzles, proper response here is "LOL fuk u death" IMO

Yarbles. To. Even.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:30 (one year ago) Permalink

We need an interview with MES talking abt the recently passed MES and how he, MES, never really was much of a fan of MES, though he was certainly aware of him and was a proper frontman, not dancing about

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Gotta blast “Garden” when I get home, that song contains so much.

He’s the young generation dancing troupe, trying to perform country and western
(Do a dance here)

He knew the evil of the phone
He knew the evil of the phone
The bells stopped on Sunday when he rose
The bells, stopped, on Sunday, when HE rose!

JoeStork, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:33 (one year ago) Permalink

"feel sad, but stand up."

in smoking and drinking years he had to be about 400, no? which is why i'm not shocked i guess. though i don't know what his final illness was.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

xp to LBI Gideon Coe playing lots of Fall on 6Music now, public service broadcasting...

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:36 (one year ago) Permalink

A magnificent rebus, like Dylan on the wrong meds.
(and a brief nod to Von Südenfed, one of my great faves)

attention vampire (MatthewK), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:36 (one year ago) Permalink

yes that Von Südenfed album is fantastic

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:38 (one year ago) Permalink

"I will leave this fucking dump".

Sorry it's impossible to listen to the Fall and not quote every other line.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:38 (one year ago) Permalink

I really need that Von Südenfed record, thanks for reminder

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:39 (one year ago) Permalink

xxxp - part of the charm. almost felt like he'd conquered death, the way he lived

was always surprised by how *young* he was, compared to the way he looked

hard to process this one. dude was so brilliant, can't think of another lyricist quite like him, and I was always amazed how seamlessly The Fall were able to transition from one era to the next

frogbs, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Even if your granny shows up with some bongos, it still won’t be The Fall. R.I.P.

spastic heritage, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:39 (one year ago) Permalink

http://open.spotify.com/user/bentelec/playlist/7tbIoONKtyQtSsrsnzD0VQ

A spotify playlist, from the ILX tracks/ballot

Mark G, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:41 (one year ago) Permalink

"I will leave this fucking dump".

Sorry it's impossible to listen to the Fall and not quote every other line.


happy to quote from whatever i’m listening to:

“the old golden savages
killed their philosophers.
thought brought the drought about
something followed me OUT.”

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:44 (one year ago) Permalink

xp Neil, ta, blasting it now

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:46 (one year ago) Permalink

The greatest lyricist in musical history, to such an extent that the word ‘lyrics’ is unfit to describe what he did. Other than miles, probably the greatest assembler-of-performers-into-something-unforeseeable there ever was.

These are close to my exact thoughts (expressed better than I could have done). He was a true "visionary" -- as overused as that term may be -- who realized his vision over & over, in a way that made both the expression, and the intent behind the expression, seem entirely sui generis.

I hope he's walking back among us soon, in an expanded / remastered / dodgy-label 2CD version. RIP forever...

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:46 (one year ago) Permalink

The longer late album cuts, like Couples vs. Jobless, Weather Report, Blindness, 50 Year Old Man, Dr. Bucks' Letter are probably my favorite mode of MES songwriting. Those songs are tunnels to get lost in. You emerge at the end and it's a different day.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:47 (one year ago) Permalink

xP.S. -- if indeed "There are twelve people in the world / The rest are paste" -- I think we were just left with only 11...

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:48 (one year ago) Permalink

"Stop eating all that chocolate. Eat salad instead. In fact, you're a half-wit."

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:50 (one year ago) Permalink

He was the first
To wear an idiotic jacket
In the pub

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:50 (one year ago) Permalink

From the "Record Collection Rock" thread, 2018.

the fall were maybe the pioneers in this field, they obviously borrowed from a whole host of cool but also not-so-cool influences, but then again they don't really fit because it never seemed like just a shallow exercise in showing off what hip records they were into

MES, "New Puritan", 1980.

I curse your preoccupation
With your record collection
New puritan has no time
It's only music, John

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:51 (one year ago) Permalink

“i’m at the barrier between writer and singer” printhead

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:51 (one year ago) Permalink

typical of course for him to see it gleefully as a barrier.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Who tells you what
To tape on your vid. chip
How do you know the progs you miss
Are worse than those you single out?
And what'll you do when the rental's up?
And your bottom rack is full of vids
Of programs you will nay look at
The way they act is, oh, sheer delight
Cardboard copyright
Make it right

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:54 (one year ago) Permalink

poetry FFS

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:55 (one year ago) Permalink

mystical magical ranter, rest in peace.

brimstead, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:58 (one year ago) Permalink

More from Riley tomorrow on M6 I hear. Have to feel for the lad a bit, he did a proper job earlier tonight. MES said this about him in his last interview:

"Years ago you told me you were offered a BBC 6Music show, would you like to do one yet?
No, I’d love to do radio but think of the politics involved. I mean they have Guy fucking Garvey on, don’t they? It’s the kiss of death. Imagine having to say hello to Marc Riley every day. "

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:01 (one year ago) Permalink

how flair is punished

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:02 (one year ago) Permalink

i think he, they get it? i mean they would have got and did get far far worse.

grotesque so otm as an album.

“The grotesque peasants stalk the land
And deep down inside you know everybody wants to like big companies...”

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Cheers for the heads up Neil S

piscesx, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Jesus Christ, "C n' C/ Stop Mithering"!!!!!!! You could be here all night quoting from that one.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

"ted rogers brains burn in hell"

calzino, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

posted on the other thread

as someone who always feels a little bit weird abt public grief over celebrities I have to say I feel fucking devastated and honestly don;t know what to do with myself

an inferno of a human being and a monster poet who shaped my perspective from a young age and more than any other artist hot wired my brain and inspired me to keep moving sideways

I'm so full of gratitude to him for refusing to ever rest in peace. I hope that now he can.

Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Fucking Echo + the Bunnymen never put Ted Rogers brains in hell.

calzino, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Currently blasting Bend Sinister and marvelling once more at how brilliant it is.

Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:10 (one year ago) Permalink

a new face in heaven

J. Sam, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:12 (one year ago) Permalink

haha are you sure? he might be having more fun in hell

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:13 (one year ago) Permalink

always amused at the anecdote about Mark blasting James Murphy for basing "Losing My Edge" off a Von Sudenfed track (even though the VS track came out a few years later), when in reality it was LCD ripping off Killing Joke who were inspired by The Fall

frogbs, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:13 (one year ago) Permalink

i can't believe there is never going to be another fall record

what the fuck

Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Fucking Echo + the Bunnymen never put Ted Rogers brains in hell.


there’s a g good live version of the words of expectation on the reissue of room to live where he says, with a supercilious clip, a bit of a downcast eye, but not at all overemphasised, all casual and ndiffeeent like - “echo and the bunnymen, joy diviZHUN” and i love it so much.

he had so much variation of tone. for someone who doesn’t sing but just shouts ofc.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:17 (one year ago) Permalink

i can't believe there is never going to be another fall record

what the fuck

― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:16 (fifty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

think they have another record in the can actually

#TeamHailing (imago), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:18 (one year ago) Permalink

also may he live on in an endless run of spuriously sourced live recordings released on labels no one has ever heard of, as above so below

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:21 (one year ago) Permalink

This recent interview was bit of the balm I needed

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jan/24/final-interview-with-mark-e-smith-the-fall-people-still-cross-the-road-from-me

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:26 (one year ago) Permalink

hating Elton John until the end, good man

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:28 (one year ago) Permalink

I thought he'd live another 20 years in spite of the reports. This blows.

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:30 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah obv he has looked so awful for the past year and I get it that we should have seen it coming but I just figured he would ride out what ever this illness was and keep doing his thing

Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:36 (one year ago) Permalink

that philip k dick bit hahaha

#TeamHailing (imago), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:38 (one year ago) Permalink

"Arnie gets it"

JRN, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Might be time to retire the display name.

righteousmaelstrom, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:39 (one year ago) Permalink

"You wouldn't even know the sun was up unless there was a press release on it"
was just getting into this site too
http://annotatedfall.doomby.com/

Dr X O'Skeleton, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:40 (one year ago) Permalink

"whaddaya mean what's it mean?"

Dr X O'Skeleton, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:43 (one year ago) Permalink

LOLz. MES was so hilarious.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:44 (one year ago) Permalink

Not much I can say, I'm in a weird space. Just checking in. But all that work survives and will, and Neil S "the best thing this terrible country has produced in the last 60 years" otm, otm otm for fucking ever.

woof, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:45 (one year ago) Permalink

Is it important for you to remain angry?
Yeah. People still cross the road from me; I’ve still got that. I can clear a pub when I want to. It’s a talent.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:46 (one year ago) Permalink

scrolled through his discography wondering what to play. eventually got to 'frightened'. it has to be this

#TeamHailing (imago), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:47 (one year ago) Permalink

LOLz. MES was so hilarious.


srsly tho. impossible not to listen to without a massive grin on your face.

and so otm about pkd adaptations.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:48 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp "hate's not your enemy, love's your enemy"

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Why didn't you take better care of yourself, Mark?? I knew this was coming. My favorite band ever. Even love the crappy Fall records. No more Fall records! No more concerts! No more interviews! I will miss you horribly. I feel like it's the end of my youth. :(

Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I come and stand at every door
But no-one hears my silent plea
I knock and yet remain unseen
For I am dead for I am dead
I need no fruit nor even rice
I need no meat nor even bread
And I need nothing for myself
When children die they do not grow
I woke one day to ash in light
My eyes grew dim my eyes grew bright
Death came and turned my bones to dust
And scattered swirling in the wind
I need no fruit nor even spice
I need no sweet or even bread
And I need nothing for myself

https://img.discogs.com/1RBrttjKInfUguZxH7kn1RD8I1M=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/A-9457-1220655566.jpeg.jpg

Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:50 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp murder all bush monkeys

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:50 (one year ago) Permalink

Why didn't you take better care of yourself, Mark?? I knew this was coming. My favorite band ever. Even love the crappy Fall records. No more Fall records! No more concerts! No more interviews! I will miss you horribly. I feel like it's the end of my youth. :(


re crappy fall records. a very minor record “don’t take the pizza” contains the line

“your brain cracks each day
from information anxiety”

there are no bad fall records.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:51 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp murder all bush monkeys


lol was about to do that.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:51 (one year ago) Permalink

An Easy Rider coot
Grabbed the edge of my coat
Said: 'You're too smart for here'
I said: 'I'll see the manager'

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:57 (one year ago) Permalink

The young black kids get screwed up the worst
They go over to the Hampstead houses
In the English system they implicitly trust
See the A&R civil servants
They get a sex thrill out of a sixteenth of Moroccan

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:57 (one year ago) Permalink

An Easy Rider coot
Grabbed the edge of my coat
Said: 'You're too smart for here'
I said: 'I'll see the manager'


HE WAS THE MANAGER

Fizzles, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Comic timing is perfect.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:58 (one year ago) Permalink

that thread about best musical experiences of 2017, btw. i gave some answer about a busker but this is the real answer

Listening to The Fall's 'Dedication Not Medication' I stumble across the Freemasons' Central Lodge and gaze up at it in horror

— Louis Jagger (@louisjagger) June 13, 2017

just listened to it again. it is lore

#TeamHailing (imago), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:58 (one year ago) Permalink

from Killdozer via FB

"Mark E. Smith once told Killdozer that our live set was too long, and advised the following formula: "there are three of you, so you should play nine songs."

R.I.P., Wise One."

sleeve, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:58 (one year ago) Permalink

His downfall was a blonde girl
But that's none of your business

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Sometimes life is like a new bar,
Plastic seats, beer below par,
Food with no taste, music grates,
I'm living too late.
I'm living too late.

Once talking was my favourite while,
But now I know a conversation's end before it's done.
Maybe I'm living too long.

Thanks, Mark.

anatol_merklich, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:12 (one year ago) Permalink

A great anecdote from Roy Montgomery

True story:
(fanboy nobody me somehow gets himself invited to RAK studios early 1982 while The Cure are recording Pornography and this conversation takes place)
Robert Smith: If you aren't doing anything next weekend come to a party. Siouxsie will be there. I think you should meet her.
Me: I can't. I'm going to see The Fall play in Bristol.
RS: Fair enough.

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:31 (one year ago) Permalink

http://thefall.org/news/980222.html

He saw The Verve and concluded: "God help us if there's a war." At the Phoenix Festival the other year, he looked on as his band were introduced to Lou Reed, and he just thought: sad. What Mark E Smith does is move on, away from the past. You should just get over it. Recently, he went to an exclusive do at the Kensington Roof Gardens, and while the rest of his party mingled, Mark went over to the fountain and began bowing and paying homage. Someone asked what he was doing, and so he told them: this was the very spot, in 1972, where Lou Reed kicked the shit out of David Bowie.

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:49 (one year ago) Permalink

how old are the stars really?

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:52 (one year ago) Permalink

"I come and stand at every door"

nice but he didn't actually write any of that, that's a poem by a Turkish poet that Pete Seeger worked on.

akm, Thursday, 25 January 2018 00:40 (one year ago) Permalink

that’s true. his austere delivery is beautiful tho.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:04 (one year ago) Permalink

that entire violent album (levitate) is extraordinary.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:04 (one year ago) Permalink

I loved that song he did w/ Mouse on Mars as Von Sudenfed with the lyric about Sven Vath pissing his bed. Flooded it was called.

calzino, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:05 (one year ago) Permalink

sending the best to ilxors who will be much more upset than me and i am fucking gutted so...

what a fucking hero.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:08 (one year ago) Permalink

I loved that song he did w/ Mouse on Mars as Von Sudenfed with the lyric about Sven Vath pissing his bed. Flooded it was called.


^ entire album was great but yes that was hilarious.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Tom D made me read all of ...Stop Mithering. Jesus Christ, what a mind he had.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Mark, not Tom lol

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:10 (one year ago) Permalink

that entire violent album (levitate) is extraordinary.

― Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:04 (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it is one of my favourite albums of all time and i've only ever heard it off youtube, low-quality and fragmented (like the album itself tbf). i think he got closer to representing the madness and magic of existence than any other musician i can think of

wish they'd reissue it mind

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:12 (one year ago) Permalink

watching perverted by language bis. what a beautiful and fucking funny correct man.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Didn't he once have a violent altercation with some pretentious twat from a Creation indie band. And he called them a bunch of "crusty cunts". This is from deep memory, but I remember thinking thank fuck he exists.

calzino, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Didn't he once have a violent altercation with some pretentious twat from a Creation indie band. And he called them a bunch of "crusty cunts". This is from deep memory, but I remember thinking thank fuck he exists.


yes! will have to find it, but remember that also.

drunk.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:27 (one year ago) Permalink

what’s a computer.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:28 (one year ago) Permalink

only saw the Fall twice ('85 and '92), but I'm sure I bought all the records '83-94 or so. RIP you wacko.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:29 (one year ago) Permalink

it was important to me that they were contemptuous of gender as a notion. who cares? smith seemed to say. and not in a good way.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:30 (one year ago) Permalink

It has just come to me, it was that guy from The House of Love, but not the one that looked like a paedophile supply teacher, the one looked a typical goth.

calzino, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:30 (one year ago) Permalink

*sigh*

He was an absolute fucking titan in my musical world. i dont want to go to be for work tomorrow, i just wanna listen to The Fall all night

Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Terry Bickers, and his band was Levitation.

calzino, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:31 (one year ago) Permalink

current playlist:

c'n'c-s mithering
winter
winter 2
Shift-Work
Bill Is Dead
Various Times
Dr. Buck's Letter
Paint Work

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:39 (one year ago) Permalink

o god, winter

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:41 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnwgjoTq1PM

You're history
You've quit existation
You're green grub

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:42 (one year ago) Permalink

xp that's a good list sleeve

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:42 (one year ago) Permalink

RIP. so many people have already said anything i would try to say, but far better than i would have. I was just listening to This Nation's Saving Grace this morning. Can't even be coherent about this right now. Fuck.

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Checklist:

I never leave home without: (5)
1. Sunglasses - I wear them all year around, and seem to need them more often, it’s a habit
Music - cassettes, CDs
3. Palm Pilot - it’s my lifeline. I think it’s my P.A.’s computer, (6)
She rules my diary and I download it
4. Mobile phone
5. Amex card - they made such a fuss about giving it to me but I spend more time getting it turned down!

I was in the realm of the essence of Tong.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:50 (one year ago) Permalink

you don't deserve rock and roll

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:50 (one year ago) Permalink

hey mark

mookieproof, Thursday, 25 January 2018 01:56 (one year ago) Permalink

livin' too late

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:06 (one year ago) Permalink

https://youtu.be/6m2lfk4Bm34

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:09 (one year ago) Permalink

It hasn't hit yet, but it's starting

This is a good listen even if you're quite familiar imo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b052r0l5

mor frog bs (S-), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:11 (one year ago) Permalink

hey mark


you’re messing up the paintwork.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Barbara Manning did a great cover of that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxv1w-x21pY

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:15 (one year ago) Permalink

An academic kneaded his chin
Sat in the dust of some cheap magazines
His academic rust could not burn them up

A small alteration of the past can turn time into space
Small changes can alter more than a mere decade

eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:15 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpWVk3h2SA8&feature=share

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:16 (one year ago) Permalink

he looks so wonderful there

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:17 (one year ago) Permalink

that's my number one LBI

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:29 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe... of course

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh goes without saying!

I can stumble through yt till the sun comes up. Probably asleep before that. But damn.

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:35 (one year ago) Permalink

just listened to Garden, now cranking "Two-Face!"

All the English groups
Act like peasants with free milk
On a route
On a route to the loot
To candy mountain
Five wacky English proletariat idiots
Californians always think of sex
Or think of death
Five hundred girl deaths
A Mexico revenge, it's stolen land
They really get it off on
"Don't hurt me please"
Rapist fill the TVs
And the secret of their lives
Is S.E.X..

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:36 (one year ago) Permalink

50,000 fall fans cant be wrong.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:44 (one year ago) Permalink

fuck, i'm just seeing this news.

i started reading the fall just the other night; weird timing (not sure if that's what the band are named after anyway). and i've been listening to the big singles compilation a lot lately, listening to a lot of the fall era that i'd always neglected ('86 - '02). so he has been on my mind quite a bit recently. RIP Mark E Smith.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:47 (one year ago) Permalink

<3

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Trying not to be too sentimental because MES would have hated that. Thanks for the music, fuckface.

lingereffect (Kent Burt), Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Mark would want us all on the Sting should retire thread instead

del griffith, Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:01 (one year ago) Permalink

My favorite band... somehow the thought of whatever posthumous new Fall product emerges fills me with sadness, because I'll buy it knowing that's it (except for whatever live shows/old tapes Cherry Red or whoever decides to dredge(r) up), where with all the other albums that could be the last one you didn't know.

eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:02 (one year ago) Permalink

I loved the directness with which he ground a path through the preciousness and anxiety of indie music making in the UK. Like he was the only one who actually knew what he wanted, while everyone else nervously looked at each other for some kind of reaction or validation.

attention vampire (MatthewK), Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:24 (one year ago) Permalink

excellent point MK.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:29 (one year ago) Permalink

it's true that he made the world a better place when he called Mumford & Sons a "mongoloid Irish folk band."

del griffith, Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Karl it's always been my understanding that he did in fact take the band name from the Camus book, but I don't have a primary source for that at hand

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:35 (one year ago) Permalink

we need a thread with just MES stories imo

mookieproof, Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:38 (one year ago) Permalink

It was clear in the window eye
The brick outlined the blue sky
And I had to go round the gay graduates in the toilets
And Good King Harry was there
Fucking Jimmy Savile

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:48 (one year ago) Permalink

"that entire violent album (levitate) is extraordinary."

yeah I really loved that album. it felt like they were on some other plane there, and to an extent I don't feel like they ever really got back there musically. it's an abstract, weird album; missing winner kind of sucked, marshall was pretty good, everything since has been good but definitely the same musical template to a degree. Maybe Levitate was fueled by some other weird drugs. I don't know.

akm, Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Mat Osman‏ @matosman

I have a Mark E Smith story actually. Back in the day Suede got asked to support The Fall on a couple of dates. To a man we were massive fans and VERY excited to be asked. Everyone told us he could be rough on support bands but he was great. Lots of time to soundcheck. (1)

He was friendly, helpful, told us to come straight to him with any problem. The shows were great, his crowd were great, The Fall were great. On our way home in the van we were listening to Richard Skinner and he had an interview with Mark. We listened in intently. (2)

Especially when Skinner asked, "Do you like any of the new bands who are calling you an influence." Mark said "Like who?" Skinner asked "Well, like Suede." There was a perfectly timed beat. "Never heard of them."

Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:55 (one year ago) Permalink

loooool

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 04:00 (one year ago) Permalink

It was just me
The hoover
And the OAP

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 25 January 2018 04:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Btw that living too late verse quoted itt, those words go through my mind all the time

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 25 January 2018 04:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Tony Friel was reading The Fall and took the name from the title. My favourite band; this hasn't sunk in properly yet. Had been expecting/dreading it for years, tbh.

albvivertine, Thursday, 25 January 2018 04:40 (one year ago) Permalink

The Fall were everything to me

Can't bring myself to listen to any records yet somehow, but following on in the spirit of Mark being funny as fuck, anyone who hasn't already should check out the gigography section of thefall.org. Many many shows include various intros, asides and changed lyrics. And the later ones are just as amazing and strange as the ones from 81 or whenever.

A few choice ones:

"If only you could come from the Nynex gymnasium in your baseball jacket and comprehend. If only." (amended lyrics to "10 Houses of Eve")

"This is the last time you will ever see me reading lyrics again. Don't trust me. I love the carpet of Astoria 2. It's the only carpet that's worse than my house." (amended lyrics to "Spencer Must Die")

"I am Mark E Smith, these are my folk festival boys. Looking out for a grant. One! From the state culture 2000 of Suffolk."

"You walk into glass crystal mazes as the S.S. Viking regiment did. Into black. Into space. Into (...). You walk down into valley of kings. Out of glass. Out of space. In seventies disco lights." (amended lyrics to "Way Round")

"Now, who wrote the GM Vauxhall advert? Was it a, Neville Wilding? Was it 2, Julia Nagle? Or was it c, Richard and Judy? Or was it d? And the answer is e and f put together." (amended lyrics to "Touch Sensitive")

RIP

Priory, Thursday, 25 January 2018 04:58 (one year ago) Permalink

mes was on a coldcut record over acid house, right? the fall also covered a trucking song. he slagged it all but he quietly loved a lot too. music anyway.

barreras, Thursday, 25 January 2018 05:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Aw, MES. The Coldcut record is below. Friend who posted it said ‘oh look, he invented LCD Soundsystem!’

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gOmwVOTfh8g&t=64s

kim jong deal (suzy), Thursday, 25 January 2018 06:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Andy Zax @andyzax
I would never ordinarily advocate or endorse such a thing, but I feel as if the best tribute one could pay to Mark E Smith tonight would be to find a band playing in a club somewhere, wander onstage, and turn the guitarist’s amp down.

new noise, Thursday, 25 January 2018 06:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Priory – that's a superb topic / thought. One of the things that were very important to me were how their live shows were often nothing like the records. I still feel aggrieved when groups make every effort to sound exactly like their record releases. The shifting and improvised lyrics were a hilarious and brilliant aspect of that. He was doing it in Manchester last year – commenting at the audience. Can't remember what it was, but i seem to have given myself a massive hangover by staying up till half three drinking and watching Fall vids.

Now up eating cereal and listening to Last Orders and Stepping Out on Live at the Electric Circus.

'Everyone's in prison or in the army, all sincere, all phoney'

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 08:34 (one year ago) Permalink

a good thing – i'll still be working out and being delighted and astonished by his lyrics till the day i die.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 08:46 (one year ago) Permalink

"I think I'll drop out
Become a no man
And live my rules

But I'm the sort that gets out of the bath with a dirty face."

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 08:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Ha ha, from the same song ('Various Times')

'A good case for
the systems
we like
we get'

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 08:56 (one year ago) Permalink

(that from 'The Present' - the past is a camp guard in berlin, The future - 'the beer is so weak, since they got rid of time round here' aaaand, 'The Lathe of Heaven', Smith's ref to UKlG, who pre-deceased him by a day)

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 08:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Pink press threat!

MAN WITH CHIP: I'm riding third class on a one-class train.
I'm set at nought like a wimpey crane.

I'm a pink prole threat.

GENT IN SAFE-HOUSE: Get out the pink press threat file
and Um-brrrptzzap the subject.

MAN WITH CHIP: It's de-louse, recluse time

(now v. bitter) When I get to the safe house
Hanging rhyme
Hang this crummy blitz trad. by its neck

Pink press threat
I escaped the pink prole effect

GENT IN SAFE-HOUSE: It's a new prole art threat,
So it's recluse, safehouse time

NARRATOR: Then the clan began
Give them nail files soon
Then the clan began
Agenda Item One

Pink press threat
Get out the pink press threat file
New prole art, the subject
It's safe-house, safe-house time

Everybody hears the hum at 3 a.m.
But in the safe-house, it's not around

Pink press threat
Get out the wet lib file
New prole art, the subject
Safe-house, safe-house tone

That clan has got away with 100 years of sheer brilliance until now

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 09:18 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAob4ONlBmo

Ludo, Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:06 (one year ago) Permalink

now listening to the post-nearly man. hanging out with the grand fella

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:16 (one year ago) Permalink

can’t believe i didn’t post this earlier:

https://youtube/wygQmJ59E4Q

and slates is amazing.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:17 (one year ago) Permalink

shouldn't have listened to 'bill is dead' today, too much

Shitpost in Opposition (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:17 (one year ago) Permalink

it just goes to show what an amazing artist he was that all the FB posts about his death on my feed have a completely different song attached. more than anyone, he was persistently brilliant.

Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:19 (one year ago) Permalink

modernity, moderninity
water lane zero one seven one fifty five double nine
dream sat may
tents and tomatoes at Blackpool
where Jimmy Bloomfield has been brought back to host
Jousts In Moderninity
one of the many football grounds
have been converted to hold this revived sport

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:22 (one year ago) Permalink

NTS doing an MES tribute show this morning https://www.nts.live/ currently playing "Service" which is making me feel sad

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Fizzles's link fixed (for me at least): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wygQmJ59E4Q

Tim, Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Always loved this bit from Winter 2:

The mad kid had 4 lights, the average is 2.5 lights
The mediocre has 2 lights, the sign of genius is three lights
There's one light left, that's the one light
That's the science law

Steve Reich In The Afternoon (Against The 80s), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:30 (one year ago) Permalink

listening to that track right now, the Peel session version is also great

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:33 (one year ago) Permalink

I live in the same suburb of Manchester as MES, feels appropriate to share some sightings "in the wild"...

A few years back I was having lunch in a local Italian restaurant with my wife and parents and spotted Mark with Elena on the pavement outside, animatedly admiring an immaculate 1980 type Honda Civic.

He was also a regular in The Foresters Arms pub just up the road, owned by nearby brewery Joseph Holt. This determinedly local boozer has invitingly frosted windows and a big sign next to the front door: "NO CHILDREN, NO EXCEPTIONS".

The last time I saw him was about 8 months ago, alone in another pub, sitting at a tall table with his notebook just having a drink and writing. I had my daft/lovely medium format film camera with me and was *this close* to asking if I could take his picture, but didn't want to disturb his train of thought (or get a telling off).

that mustardless plate (Bill A), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:39 (one year ago) Permalink

a thing i loved about that song is the line

“two white clouds cross the sky
look like krakens”

which with extraordinary economy and strangeness conveys the world of a frozen submarine and subterranean landscape.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:39 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost about winter.

bill those are lovely sightings/observations - thanks.

(and thanks for fixing the link, tim)

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:41 (one year ago) Permalink

the fall have the unique distinction of being the only band i can't start playing and have on in the background while i try to do something else - i just have to listen to mark and his lyrics, it just feels wrong not to pay attention

rip you hilarious brilliant arsehole

your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:41 (one year ago) Permalink

listening to that track right now, the Peel session version is also great

It's the best version.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Just picking up on Mark Riley's show last night via iplayer - pretty much broke on his show around 8:30 so its well yeah.

Mark G, Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:44 (one year ago) Permalink

xp that session is, for me, the highlight of what is pretty much uniformly pure gold, the Complete Peel Sessions box set:

2-1 Deer Park 4:26
2-2 Look, Know 5:05
2-3 Winter 8:03
2-4 Who Makes The Nazis? 2:54

https://www.discogs.com/The-Fall-The-Complete-Peel-Sessions-1978-2004/release/530824

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:47 (one year ago) Permalink

It's funny, in the past few weeks, I've been listening to the later and "lesser" Fall albums and have been really enjoying them, after not having listened to the Fall for a long time. I'm liking the more casual vibe on them, where there doesn't seem this pressure to make "great" albums. Lord knows I've listened to Hex and This Nation's too many times. I really like The Real New Fall LP.

Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:56 (one year ago) Permalink

my one sighting of MES in the wild was him going into a bookies on the lower broughton road in salford ca 1989

faust apes (NickB), Thursday, 25 January 2018 10:57 (one year ago) Permalink

My one sighting, of the whole lot of them, they were walking down the Great West Road in the direction of Island's Peter Square studios (they might not have been going there, just I knew where that was as I'd done some work here in the past).

Anyway, it looked exactly like the first bit of the "Eat Yrself Fitter" video. I went "Blimey, it's the Fall" but I was alone so hey.

Mark G, Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:06 (one year ago) Permalink

St Peter's Square.. But you knew that, right?

Mark G, Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:07 (one year ago) Permalink

I once served MES when I was working at the Music and Video Exchange bookshop in Notting Hill. He bought a copy of Rudolph Grey's oral biography of Ed Wood, Nightmare of Ecstasy. He was incredibly polite.

Agharta Christie (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Had a piss alongside him once.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:12 (one year ago) Permalink

go on...

your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:14 (one year ago) Permalink

There's not much more to the story tbh!

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:20 (one year ago) Permalink

well there goes my hope of writing the first anatomically-correct mark e smith erotic fiction :(

your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:27 (one year ago) Permalink

i am damo suzuki's wang

(the blues version in his Broadway show) (crüt), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:29 (one year ago) Permalink

i was once being served next to him in a pub in derby, and I nodded, and after saying 'all right' he said 'i love derby, you know - there's nothing to do here.'

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:51 (one year ago) Permalink

MES OTM

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Perfect.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:53 (one year ago) Permalink

When I'm stuck in traffic or simply trying to walk along a pavement somewhere, I often think about something he once said in an interview about pavements and roads in England - in comparison to the US and Europe I think - and how they were 'designed for 15th century dwarves'.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:57 (one year ago) Permalink

lol fizzles that is awesome

your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:58 (one year ago) Permalink

yes

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 11:59 (one year ago) Permalink

It's funny, in the past few weeks, I've been listening to the later and "lesser" Fall albums and have been really enjoying them, after not having listened to the Fall for a long time. I'm liking the more casual vibe on them, where there doesn't seem this pressure to make "great" albums. Lord knows I've listened to Hex and This Nation's too many times. I really like The Real New Fall LP.

― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Thursday, January 25, 2018 5:56 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I feel like I've read in a couple different places, the Hanley book was one of them but feel like there was an interview at some point too that confirmed that there was really never the pressure to make great albums but that the steady flow of releases could be looked at sort of like diary entries, like whether or not the inspiration was 100% there, his work ethic was such that every period would be documented. Not that there wasn't also some financial reason behind it but I think he just had this endless flow of words and ideas that was to some extent beyond his control and he was going to get them on record no matter what.

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:24 (one year ago) Permalink

"Real New Fall LP" is really the last one I spent a lot of time with. It's really good. "Sparta" is such a jam. "Recovery Kit" probably one of my favorite Fall tunes full stop. Plus it's got "Green Eyed....ahhhhhhhhh Loco Man"

suppose I should check out the ones after that as well ??

frogbs, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Listening to YFOC this morning and tempted to post so many lyrics.

He is the only lyricist whose lyrics I can read for pleasure independent of the music, one of few lyricists I would describe as a poet, and almost definitely the one lyricist who would be most upset at being called a poet.

I had two broken bottles
And I had two brown bottles
And a white nose as I entered
Five years of confinement
This is the story that enfolded
As it went on into the sea
Of unseen footage
And unseen facts
Unseen refinement
Unseen extension
Chicory tip in a shopping center
With a soundtrack again

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:34 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost frogbs absolutely, there is so much greatness after Real New Fall LP. Like I know it comes off as challops but a lot of his late work is on par with the best of the "classic" era.

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:36 (one year ago) Permalink

I feel like imago has done a POX or two of late-era stuff on the main Fall thread that were very much OTM as a general best-of. "Loadstones" and "Weather Report 2" are top tier, just brilliant stuff. "Jetplane", "Couples vs. Jobless mid-30s". Just so much great stuff.

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:40 (one year ago) Permalink

stuff...stuff

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:41 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBUiPs1PxKo

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:47 (one year ago) Permalink

YFOC is too great to really split up but here's my post-YFOC mixtape, updated to include NFE

Fol De Rol
Taking Off
Dedication Not Medication
Greenway
Couples vs Jobless Mid 30s
Mister Rode
Monocard
No Respects Rev.
Auto Chip 2014-2016
Jetplane
Jam Song
Loadstones

^^^all incredible. "this is new, fresh!"

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:50 (one year ago) Permalink

by the way, in terms of all-time all-fucking-time greatest lyrics, death juxtaposed with the blackest of humor:

I look to the past then the left
The whirlpools cascade over my face
And I watched Murder She Wrote
At least five times

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:52 (one year ago) Permalink

this song is killing me right now

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:53 (one year ago) Permalink

why am I listening to this today, at work

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:53 (one year ago) Permalink

that's one song i've not been able to listen to yet, see also Bonkers In Phoenix for some reason

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:55 (one year ago) Permalink

WR2 is undoubtedly among his greatest works though yeah, and a completely unprecedented piece of music in general

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 14:56 (one year ago) Permalink

WR2 is fantastic, and so is Bonkers, though they're both on different plains all together. Former quite a tough listen today.

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:03 (one year ago) Permalink

gonna be a while before I can listen to Bonkers

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:06 (one year ago) Permalink

well the thing about Bonkers is that Smith's presence on it is that of the mischievous wraith

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:08 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOZOAeQKlJk

"Dr Boring had a relationship with the drug company too
And I'm half-associated with the Softness Group PLC
On TV today somebody claimed their dog
Had been molested by a textile chemist

But life just bounces so don't you get worried at all
Sometimes life just bounces so don't you get worried at all"

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:10 (one year ago) Permalink

what is the story behind Bonkers in Phoenix anyway. why does it sound like that

frogbs, Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:12 (one year ago) Permalink

brix and the gang wrote a heartbreakingly beautiful ballad and mark e smith rambled about festival parking over the top of it while messing around with the equaliser

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:13 (one year ago) Permalink

i.e. it's the best thing ever

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:14 (one year ago) Permalink

the sound fx are genuinely amazing and perfect

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:15 (one year ago) Permalink

he always fuckin knew what he was doing

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:16 (one year ago) Permalink

i'm listening to it now obv

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:16 (one year ago) Permalink

xps

'Always different, always the same,' as their champion in radio land, John Peel, described them - but there is plenty of room for variation within that. Brix has brought her sense of melody back with her, even if it is sabotage by her ex on the albums wierdest track, Bonkers In Phoenix, in which her part is speeded up and dive bombed by volleys of ugly synthesizer. The song is about rock festivals and Smith just wanted to get across, 'what it's actually like at them for someone like me anyway. It's always bands playing at half-pace with people shouting'. Already, and perhaps this could only happen in the wonderful and frightening world of The Fall, a folk group has asked permission to do an a cappella version.

http://www.thefall.org/gigography/95mar15.html

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:19 (one year ago) Permalink

That's perfect, thx sleeve

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:20 (one year ago) Permalink

he always fuckin knew what he was doing

Obviously there are countless examples of this in action but listening to "Hotel Bloedel" right now and honing in on his violin playing and this thought is really resonating.

cwkiii, Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:34 (one year ago) Permalink

“If it’s me and yer granny on bongos, it’s The Fall.”

somehow never ran across this quote

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 January 2018 16:51 (one year ago) Permalink

his music brought me so much pure FUN and joy.

brimstead, Thursday, 25 January 2018 16:53 (one year ago) Permalink

and a break from cold crappy reality

brimstead, Thursday, 25 January 2018 16:54 (one year ago) Permalink

this feels sad and unreal. glad i got to see the fall back in 2005 or so. i wasn't sure what to expect but they sounded as great as they'd ever sounded to me on any of their records. easily one of the 10 best shows i've ever seen. still vividly remember buying my first album in my late teens -- wonderful & frightening -- and just not knowing what to make of it. many, many listens later, i still don't, really. MES's lyrics feel as deep and rich and worthy of study as any pop lyrics i can think of. he was way ahead of us all. rip.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 16:55 (one year ago) Permalink

From the beginning up to Bend Sinister is where the real gold is for me, and the two albums after aren't too bad. There's been some very good stuff from 2000-present, but the '90s were pretty weak for 'em - particularly 1995-1998.

Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:13 (one year ago) Permalink

rong :)

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

I can hear MES's voice in some of today's newspaper front page headlines:

- Furore Over Groping Scandal
- Trump Hails New Churchill
- Cop Probe Urged
- Cloned Macaques Make History
- Eat Curry To Beat Dementia

mike t-diva, Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

that last one accompanied by a derisory chuckle

#TeamHailing (imago), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:15 (one year ago) Permalink

I once served MES when I was working at the Music and Video Exchange bookshop in Notting Hill. He bought a copy of Rudolph Grey's oral biography of Ed Wood, Nightmare of Ecstasy. He was incredibly polite.

Ah man, hero -- that's one of my favorite books.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink

I was a big Nick Cave and Pogues fan when this Cave/McGowan/MES interview came out, but I was in possession of Bend Sinister and still trying to figure out what to make of it.

http://thequietus.com/articles/09277-mark-e-smith-nick-cave-shane-macgowan-nme-interview

And this little sub-rant crystallized his work for me -

NC: And your songs are very deceptive Mark, in the way they're sung. They may appear at times like streams of consciousness but that's deceptive.

MES: One thing that really annoys me is that stream of consciousness thing. I wouldn't let on to it normally, but it annoys the shit out of me. I put a lot of hard sweat into them, I think about them. They have an inner logic to me so I don't really care who understands them or not. I see writing and singing as two very different things. My attitude is if you can't deliver it like a garage band, fuck it. That's one thing that's never been explored, delivering complex things in a very straightforward rock 'n' roll way. My old excuse is if I'd wanted to be a poet, I'd have been a poet.

"if you can't deliver it like a garage band, fuck it" is one of those slogans that's repeated in my head ever since. Made me respect the possibilities for what could be communicated with a song, beyond the classic themes.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:21 (one year ago) Permalink

I love that interview, arguing w/McGowan abt Nietzsche lol

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:25 (one year ago) Permalink

I can hear MES's voice in some of today's newspaper front page headlines:

- Furore Over Groping Scandal
- Trump Hails New Churchill
- Cop Probe Urged
- Cloned Macaques Make History
- Eat Curry To Beat Dementia

Dragnet For Gun Blast Man.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:36 (one year ago) Permalink

man those headlines are really good
i have been enjoying reading the tidbits and interviews that show how singular MES was, lyrics too

i never really got into the fall when i was young because i found their catalogue impenetrable without help and no one to ask in the dark ages. i got 458489 B Sides at some point and enjoyed it but then kinda drifted from rock music and never went back to find more about their catalogue until recently. i have been sent playlists that i know are probably excellent (thanks jon!) and dipped my toe in but i am not a regular spotify user and therefore i still feel stymied about where to begin! is this the essential nature of the fall and MES? seems like it :) RIP

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:48 (one year ago) Permalink

i think the greatest hits are a fine place to start. that two-disc the fall rough trade compilation (the one with the red cover) is the one that got me into them. the 50,000 fall fans can't be wrong compilation (also two discs) is also good and maybe easier to find.

na (NA), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:53 (one year ago) Permalink

note: i am not asking for help now because i think everyone has their own experience with a band like this
mine is a very long journey apparently

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:58 (one year ago) Permalink

i always figured there would be fall CDs out there for me to buy since so many people loved them so much and liked different parts of their catalogue

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

50,000 Fall Fans Can't Be Wrong was my gateway after years of not quite getting it

That was a sort of good gateway era, you had the Totally Wired comp and also around that time a really great new album (Real New Fall LP)

The Fall is like a Magic Eye poster, you stare at it forever and it looks like a big mess then suddenly some form pops out at you and you become obsessed

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Derisive YouTube comment that accidentally encapsulates everything I love about the Fall:

"The Fall aren't so much a band, more a well-intentioned 1970's Manchester Council unemployment initiative that has snowballed out of control."

— Tobi Haslett (@TobiHaslett) January 24, 2018

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:02 (one year ago) Permalink

this radio tribute right now is going well

http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/77083

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:03 (one year ago) Permalink

The Fall is like a Magic Eye poster, you stare at it forever and it looks like a big mess then suddenly some form pops out at you and you become obsessed

*wild applause*

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:06 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't want to get too sentimental about him, and I don't want to forget how cruel he could be (that part of Prince has already been written out of history)

but I think the reason that so many people like myself who have been big fans and dabbled in making underground music react so strongly to him is the sheer guts he had.
i've been in a few bands, i've written professionally as an entertainment journalist and always meant to try something more personal and substantial

but the fact is that i never had the guts, the real nerve it takes to fully devote myself to something the way Mark E Smith did, to forgo a stable life, stable relationships, having a child, my health, sanity or whatever else he sacrificed in pursuit of his vision of The Fall (the band as an idea, a principle to him)....Can you imagine what it took in these last years? To the point where he was doing shows in a wheelchair? How much of his life he ruined because of The Fall?

It's one thing to be Phish or the Dead, living in 4 star hotels and planes and buses, but for the Fall (or Pere Ubu) it's still shuffling into vans, loading into shitty clubs all over the world, getting enough scratch to make it through the next six months....

(not to mention i wouldn't have been capable of anything that great, but that's another issue)

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink

i am a proud Brix-era Fall fan. that's my Fall. Perverted to Oranj/Frenz. i fell so hard for Cruisers Creek. it was everything i ever wanted in a song. it felt like a gift. since it came out i have played that song a thousand times. it's funny cuz i bought that Speed Trials comp in 1984 to hear Swans/Sonic Youth/Live Skull and the thing that sounded the weirdest to me out of all those New York scuzz bands was the Fall doing "Tempo House". and obviously that was worlds away from what i would hear in "Cruisers Creek" a year later. but that five year run of records and singles...that's the best band for me. the 12-inch version of "No Bulbs" is some sort of rock pinnacle for me. it really and truly does not get any better than that. and its a friggin' high standard which is why i don't get excited by a lot of stuff i hear now and get cranky like MES and just end up wanting to listen to Can and Eddie Cochran records.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:16 (one year ago) Permalink

will love MES forever for saying this in that quietus interview:

I respect Dylan. The only good thing I've heard of his is that LP he did with George Harrison and Roy Orbison.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:18 (one year ago) Permalink

pic.twitter.com/fVMznDerWq

— Brix Smith Start (@Brixsmithstart) January 25, 2018

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:19 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp scott if you ever feel like it you should check out Cerebral Caustic and Light User Syndrome, the two albums they made when Brix returned briefly to the fold

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:19 (one year ago) Permalink

scott that was gen my period as well

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh! The Fall... I only have this excerpt:
Have you ever fallen in love, slowly, measure by measure, without realizing it until you were over the moon? And, surprisingly, the object of your love was once hated and dismissed? That's my relationship with The Fall.

I was 17 when I first heard a Fall song, and I absolutely couldn't stand it. "What is this racket?", I thought, and didn't think twice. Staring at the cover of "The Wonderful And Frightening World" at Al Bum's in Amherst, MA, I just wasn't ready to process what I was hearing. I was just starting to become the man whose head and music tastes expanded, but I was far from being in a place where I could appreciate what Mark was doing. And so I retreated to my safe world of college rock. Along the way, I ran into many references to The Fall, such as the Jazz Butchers' "Southern Mark Smith" and Barbara Mannings' "Mark E Smith & Brix", and comments in interviews, reviews and books. The Fall was a hovering presence in my world, just out of my vision but always in the back of my mind.

Fast forward a decade and my dear friend, a rabid Fall fan, was determined to sway me. She made me a tape of the "458489 A Side" compilation and I played it in my car, as I commuted to work and ran errands. It wasn't nearly as strange as I remembered. Ever so slowly, the tape crept into my regular listening pattern and my thinking began to change. "I like these singles", and off I went to acquire the CD. It was a bit like the first drink of an alcoholic. "I don't need more than this", and yet within a few months I found myself picking up the Beggars Banquet catalog. So many gems beyond the singles - album cuts! b-sides! So many strange sounds but all packaged in a veil of familiar tropes. "But the early stuff is really challenging", thought I, and my dear friend gave me a tape of "Palace Of Swords Reversed". Again, at first I found a few things I enjoyed, but there was the nagging persistence to play it again and again, until I had to find a copy for myself. "I don't need more than this, well, except maybe another compilation from the same era ("Hip Priests And Kamerads"), and maybe a live album ("The Legendary Chaos Tape")". That last one introduced me to the brilliance that is "Spectre Vs Rector", and then I found that the first two albums were tough to find on CD at the time. Which made them more appealing to my collector-scum side. So I tracked them down, and then slowly filled in the rest of the back catalog.

I stopped at "Extricate" because I had found the 90s albums inconsistent. But over the next few years I found more I liked, such as "The Chiselers" single, and I started to trade for tapes of the Peel sessions containing songs that blew my mind like "Glam Racket Star", and my heart grew three sizes that day. And then I saw them perform at the Middle East in Cambridge, the night before it all blew up in New York City. I picked up the 90s compilations "A Past Gone Mad" and "A World Bewitched" and realized just how wrong I had been about that decade's work. That was the final blow, I was just mad for them to the point where they eclipsed everything else. Days passed where I just listened to The Fall. When I met people who appreciated the Fall, I instantly liked them a whole lot more.

Strong albums in the 00's followed, along with an excellent reissue series full of fascinating previously unreleased material. "Room To Live" got the expanded release it deserved! "Fall In A Hole" out on CD without the pops and clicks! I saw The Fall again in 2003, when Mark was at the height of his powers. "Blindness" came out, every bit as great, driving and relevant as the early singles. I learned more about Mark's influences - 50s rockabilly, 60s garage rock and, in recent years, krautrock. Hearing the source material in no way diminished my view of the unique amalgam of sounds that The Fall create. The only artist I can compare with Mark is James Brown - both were able to mold any backing band into their vision, both treated voice-as-instrument, both unyielding in their views.

I'm listening to the Red Box compilation, the only one that does justice to the breadth and depth of Mark's work. I still find things I missed in all my previous listening, and expect to do so the rest of my life.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:26 (one year ago) Permalink

will love MES forever for saying this in that quietus interview:

I respect Dylan. The only good thing I've heard of his is that LP he did with George Harrison and Roy Orbison.


hahaha, this fuckin guy

feel like there’s a book of m.e.s. bon mots just waiting to be compiled

your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:40 (one year ago) Permalink

The Fall is like a Magic Eye poster, you stare at it forever and it looks like a big mess then suddenly some form pops out at you and you become obsessed


ums this is fucking perfect and i love you for it

your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:42 (one year ago) Permalink

50,000 Fall Fans Can't Be Wrong is probably my favorite compilation title ever

frogbs, Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Adding myself to the list of people who never fully got the Fall. I'd honestly been kicking around the idea of diving back in recently. Guess this will have to be that time. It's been good to read everybody's memories on this thread.

how's life, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:02 (one year ago) Permalink

50,000 Fall Fans Can't Be Wrong is probably my favorite compilation title ever

but what about the elvis one

kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:09 (one year ago) Permalink

that's what makes the Fall one so good

frogbs, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:12 (one year ago) Permalink

"bill is dead" as incidental music on The One Show just now

koogs, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:12 (one year ago) Permalink

frogbs gets it

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:14 (one year ago) Permalink

i wonder what normal people are making of this, how a singer with a band with 3 top 40 singles is getting so much coverage.

(two are obvious, i had to look up the third - Telephone Thing snuck in at number 40)

((also, probably more people know the car advert music and the final score music without knowing who it is))

koogs, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:15 (one year ago) Permalink

normal people :)

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:15 (one year ago) Permalink

i always thought it was funny "blindess" was car commercial since one of the first lyrics is i was walking down the street

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't want to get too sentimental about him, and I don't want to forget how cruel he could be (that part of Prince has already been written out of history)

but I think the reason that so many people like myself who have been big fans and dabbled in making underground music react so strongly to him is the sheer guts he had.
i've been in a few bands, i've written professionally as an entertainment journalist and always meant to try something more personal and substantial

but the fact is that i never had the guts, the real nerve it takes to fully devote myself to something the way Mark E Smith did, to forgo a stable life, stable relationships, having a child, my health, sanity or whatever else he sacrificed in pursuit of his vision of The Fall (the band as an idea, a principle to him)....Can you imagine what it took in these last years? To the point where he was doing shows in a wheelchair? How much of his life he ruined because of The Fall?

It's one thing to be Phish or the Dead, living in 4 star hotels and planes and buses, but for the Fall (or Pere Ubu) it's still shuffling into vans, loading into shitty clubs all over the world, getting enough scratch to make it through the next six months....

(not to mention i wouldn't have been capable of anything that great, but that's another issue)


exceptional post that exactly encapsulates one of the things i admire about him. it was all about The Fall, always. always about art, but if it couldn’t be delivered in a way that was shitty and messy and antagonistic and put energy above form then Art wasn’t worth a damn.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:23 (one year ago) Permalink

too tired (and sad) to flesh this out right now but "put energy above form" isn't quite right i don't think: he had a ferocious (if highly idiosyncratic and self-evolved) sense of form

mark s, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:31 (one year ago) Permalink

(two are obvious, i had to look up the third - Telephone Thing snuck in at number 40)

it was free range that hit 40, not telephone thing.

new noise, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:35 (one year ago) Permalink

Was gonna say..

Mark G, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:35 (one year ago) Permalink

"he had a ferocious (if highly idiosyncratic and self-evolved) sense of form"

just reading the lyrics on a page without the music and you definitely see that right away.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:47 (one year ago) Permalink

i rly like the balance of geeta’s piece - it contains the cruelty, which was important and good. he was an extraordinarily funny and often very kind and polite man, generous too. but yes. things broke down and “difficulty” could also be “damage”.

on another note, i disagree that there were any absolute failures (obv i do), a thought process that led to this:


i remember a friend and i pissing ourselves to the sketchiest live performance of funnel of love you can imagine. mind you constant laughter through a track is common. not just the lyrics, but the *manner*.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:49 (one year ago) Permalink

too tired (and sad) to flesh this out right now but "put energy above form" isn't quite right i don't think: he had a ferocious (if highly idiosyncratic and self-evolved) sense of form


yes, you’re right. i’m a bit pissed since last night (and generally meeting up with fall fan friends) but i hope at some point to put something more cogent down that isn’t all about the memorial. categories and thought. but right now the best thing for me is just posting lyrics tbh.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink

speaking for myself, i'd rather listen to the fall than read beckett or stein...

scott seward, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Please keep posting good links, I am on the road for a couple of days and will be glad to have them to follow up later

UMS your last post made me tear up a little ;_;

My stepsister’s got a horrible growth

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink


Byron Coley
‏ @ByronColey1
9h9 hours ago

just last saturday was talking to steve berlin about a fall/flesheaters/blurt show at myron's ballroom in '81. remembering how much mark e smith wanted to go see compton; also, how he and richard meltzer kept praising the work of cw mccall. so long, man.

dow, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:54 (one year ago) Permalink

i fell so hard for Cruisers Creek. it was everything i ever wanted in a song. it felt like a gift. since it came out i have played that song a thousand times.

A few weeks ago when I got the new Singles box I decided to put on the first disc shortly before bedtime, thinking I'd just listen to a few tracks, but I played the whole thing — it was so consistently great, just about as good a one-disc argument for The Fall's greatness as you could have. "Cruisers Creek" is the last song on that disc (as it is on the old This Nation's Saving Grace CD), and hearing that song gave me such an electric charge, the joy sat with me for the next day. It reminded me of when I was getting into the band in college (I was doing a year abroad at the University of Kent) and experienced an intoxication around the Beggars singles not unlike what Gerald McB-B describes above. The disc ending with that song is so perfect, because it's both the greatest thing ever and it makes you imagine that even greater things lie ahead. A gift it is.

eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:56 (one year ago) Permalink

: )

just on categories the way the not amazing imperial wax solvent album explicitly reintroduced character led songs again for the first time in a decade.

Fizzles, Thursday, 25 January 2018 19:58 (one year ago) Permalink

> it was free range that hit 40, not telephone thing.

gah, i looked it up and forgot it in less than a day 8(

(by normal people i mean the people i work with, or my parents, people who listen to radio 2 rather than 6.)

Front Row podcast (the extended download-only version) includes Grayson Perry's thoughts on MES - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09nrsg1

koogs, Thursday, 25 January 2018 20:57 (one year ago) Permalink

WFMU continues to play a lot....

http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/77089

and i'm catching all the sneering Mark-critic quotes, eg "I don't sing I just shout," in "Your Heart Out."

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 January 2018 20:58 (one year ago) Permalink

you can call it a bubble or whatever but i kinda dig that its like a head of state dying on my facebook. this massive response. we make our own worlds.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:01 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp one of my favorite lines

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:02 (one year ago) Permalink

?? nate famously hated the fall i thought "mingering shit" iirc

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Read on!

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:06 (one year ago) Permalink

i did and it was pointless

Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:14 (one year ago) Permalink

sorry that was mean, music nerd hand-wringing does seem kinda pointless tho, the fall had plenty of catchy tunes

Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:16 (one year ago) Permalink

if someone didn't know where to start i would tell them to buy i am kurious oranj. so much fun and such an awesome rock record and tons of hooks/great songs. it's like the last great post-punk record. r.i.p. 1980s.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:24 (one year ago) Permalink

it's weird but the fall were never a band that i ever really picked apart or analyzed or dissected. i never wondered what MES was listening to. i knew he liked krautrock and 50s rock and garage rock and i guess that's all i needed to know! the clang was there. the beat. the roughness. pretty self-explanatory. it DID take me years to realize what a good writer he was. which is strange. but i just let the words wash over me and for a long time it never dawned on me how hard it must have been to write stuff like that. i just saw him/them as a force of nature. raising a ruckus. such cool sounds.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

“If it’s me and yer granny on bongos, it’s The Fall.”

somehow never ran across this quote

This was, IIRC, in response to being challenged about a Reading festival performance where they pulled up backstage, MES having drunkenly sacked the drummer halfway up the motorway, and asked if anyone knew how to play drums. The Chemical Brothers' manager had not played since he was a teenager, and didn't know any of the Fall's songs, but went on and played them to tens of thousands of people.

Haribo Hancock (sic), Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:45 (one year ago) Permalink

the chemical brothers should have played drums! they had that big beat.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:51 (one year ago) Permalink

xp that's amazing, never heard the backstory there

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 21:52 (one year ago) Permalink

i should also say that ned has a lot of reviews of fall albums on allmusic and they are great reading again

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 25 January 2018 22:32 (one year ago) Permalink

I think that Reading festival show was one of the 2 times I saw the Fall, although I only watched a few songs before wandering off because it was pretty bad.

Colonel Poo, Thursday, 25 January 2018 22:48 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost Too kind. As always I'd probably like to rewrite them but I'd like to rewrite pretty much everything I've ever done anyway.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 25 January 2018 22:52 (one year ago) Permalink

loll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2euHrKaRW4

kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 25 January 2018 22:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Beautiful. Are those saucepans in the foreground part of the instrumentation?

mick signals, Thursday, 25 January 2018 23:18 (one year ago) Permalink

J0hn D0lan:

"MES meant a lot to me. A reckless courage that was beyond my imagining, bloody-minded persistence immune to attacks of conscience, and muttered backhands that could floor a target while barely brushing them with a knuckle:

'She consigns them all to Hell,
She's the Littlest Rebel...'"

etc, Thursday, 25 January 2018 23:22 (one year ago) Permalink

probably not - this was for Ginger Wildheart's album and probs a home studio lol

xpost

kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 25 January 2018 23:25 (one year ago) Permalink

That Reading/Fall story shows up in that Guardian piece from 2006 where the writer tries to track down every single former The Fall member:

One of the strangest entrances is that of Nick Dewey, who attended the 1999 Reading festival as the manager of the Chemical Brothers and ended up on stage with the Fall. "This drunk man [guitarist Neville Wilding] came backstage asking if anyone played drums," he says. "The band had had a fight and left the drummer at motorway services." Dewey hadn't played for 10 years, but once a Chemical Brother put his name forward, Wilding refused to take no for an answer. Dewey was led to a darkened tour bus to meet Smith, "passed out with his shirt off. The guitarist had to punch him in the face to wake him up. Then they began fighting over whether or not they should teach me the songs. Mark said no!" With a blood-covered Smith offering occasional prompts, Dewey pulled it off.

I tried to ask Wilding about this incident but his neighbour said he was "in Guadalajara". The neighbour is Adam Helal, who also appeared in the Fall, playing bass from 1998 to 2001.

ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Thursday, 25 January 2018 23:39 (one year ago) Permalink

I just ordered "The Fallen", looking forward to it

sleeve, Thursday, 25 January 2018 23:42 (one year ago) Permalink

The neighbour is Adam Helal, who also appeared in the Fall, playing bass from 1998 to 2001.

omg haha

Patton Oswalt Defense Lawyer (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 25 January 2018 23:43 (one year ago) Permalink

how many posters in this thread have played in the Fall

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 26 January 2018 00:54 (one year ago) Permalink

MES quote from the liner notes to the 2CD reissue of Shift-Work:

"I'm trying to chop off all the esoteric bits, the unnecessary bits, all the time."

sleeve, Friday, 26 January 2018 00:55 (one year ago) Permalink

been a fan of the fall for nearly 30 years and only realizing there are barely any songs about girls in the trad rock sense. and it’s hard to know the few that might be love songs. maybe none of them are love songs.

not a shocking thing generally — esp in darker genres — but for 32 albums?

when you’re driving around looking for parking, cursing non stop, there’s no more appropriate soundtrack than pretty much any fall album.

barreras, Friday, 26 January 2018 01:07 (one year ago) Permalink

I remember working as a temp first few year and a half when I finally got out of college in the mid-90s working in the bowels of telephone, insurance and local government offices usually in big monolithic file rooms, cleaning up and filing with a discman listening often to The Fall. While now it seems some guy with a set of headphones doing some dead end job is kinda normal now, I think it was kinda strange to the stiffs at the time. The Fall seemed to really fit the circumstances, stop MITHERING.

earlnash, Friday, 26 January 2018 01:39 (one year ago) Permalink

grooving really hard on Extricate & related tracks this evening

sleeve, Friday, 26 January 2018 02:06 (one year ago) Permalink

with your daft African pop
and the wine that you call Bull's Blood
Hillary
oh oh Hil-uh-ray

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 02:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Keep me away from the fest-i-val....

Fine Toothcomb (sonofstan), Friday, 26 January 2018 14:50 (one year ago) Permalink

MES, the New Puritan after all, could have been mistakable for a second-wave feminist. No lechery whatsoever in his words, and plenty of criticism for 'male slags' and those with overactive libidos in general. I guess there is that 'An Older Lover etc' song, but isn't that sarcastic?

imago, Friday, 26 January 2018 14:55 (one year ago) Permalink

oh the etc is on 'Slags, Slates', whoops

imago, Friday, 26 January 2018 14:56 (one year ago) Permalink

Anyway, this is possibly his most tender moment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VUnbPG8i3A

imago, Friday, 26 January 2018 14:57 (one year ago) Permalink

MES, the New Puritan after all, could have been mistakable for a second-wave feminist

well there was the hilarious time he punched and strangled julia nagle but let's not talk about that eh

faust apes (NickB), Friday, 26 January 2018 14:58 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah and then he wrote her the above song

it was a chaotic and shitty time for sure (punctuated by some amazing music) but apart from that fight i think he showed generally good credentials in that department. also iirc she fully forgave him (i know this doesn't absolve him completely)

imago, Friday, 26 January 2018 15:01 (one year ago) Permalink

obviously i don't want to make light of domestic abuse, but it was definitely a single aberration. not that kind of player guv

imago, Friday, 26 January 2018 15:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Maxine Peake
Every Friday in my mid-teens, I used to go to a psych and 60s R&B night at a club in Manchester called the Brickhouse. I remember seeing Mark E Smith there on regular occasions propping up the bar. I never had the courage to go over and tell him how much I admired him; to approach him would take a lot of courage from the steeliest of nerves. Many years later, I went to see the Fall perform at the Cartoon Club in Croydon and I found myself in the tiny dressing room after the gig, face to face with Mr Smith. I was starstruck. Just as I was about to pluck up the courage to say something, Mark turned to Steve Trafford, his then bassist, and said: “What does that slapper want?” For a split-second my heart was broken, but then I thought, “Hey, at least he noticed me.”

Agharta Christie (Ward Fowler), Friday, 26 January 2018 15:03 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah ok i said second-wave haha

if anything, that anecdote adds deeper resonance to that eccentronic research council album she narrated a couple of years ago

imago, Friday, 26 January 2018 15:06 (one year ago) Permalink

sub-lingual tablet is sounding really good to me today

this picture also really got to me

http://thefall.org/news/pics/2017-11-04_MES-photo-sm.jpg

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 15:10 (one year ago) Permalink

so now I sleep in ditches

the girl with the rub-on tattoo (Noodle Vague), Friday, 26 January 2018 15:11 (one year ago) Permalink

hoooow bad are english musicians?

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 15:13 (one year ago) Permalink

lol

In 2010, Smith guested on the great Gorillaz album Plastic Beach, despite having no clue who or what Gorillaz was. "I actually thought Gorillaz were some kiddie rap, like helping out Dizzee Rascal or something," the bandleader said in a subsequent interview with Clash. "Where I live in Manchester, Gorillaz mean jack shit, honestly."

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 15:32 (one year ago) Permalink

um, yeah?

Mark G, Friday, 26 January 2018 15:43 (one year ago) Permalink

damon got his terrible revenge by naming the next gorillaz album 'the fall'

imago, Friday, 26 January 2018 15:55 (one year ago) Permalink

"That's a fucking drum riff I wrote"

From the Newsweek(!) piece sleeve posted, talking about Pavement.
True though, he/ the fall wrote drum riffs that were amazing - fantastic life, no bulbs, container drivers... loads more where the drum figure was the hook.

Fine Toothcomb (sonofstan), Friday, 26 January 2018 18:27 (one year ago) Permalink

As a huge Pavement fan, can anyone point me to the most obvious lifts?

kraudive, Friday, 26 January 2018 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink

as a fan of both i always felt like the whole thing was pretty overplayed honestly

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 18:49 (one year ago) Permalink

i don't think i've ever thought about the fall listening to pavement.

scott seward, Friday, 26 January 2018 18:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I think the most commonly mentioned is "Conduit for Sale" and "A New Face in Hell".

jmm, Friday, 26 January 2018 18:51 (one year ago) Permalink

to me the most "Pavement" sounding Fall album is Middle Class Revolt but that's from 1994 when Pavement was well established already

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 18:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Right yeah. How can I how can I xp

kraudive, Friday, 26 January 2018 18:54 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp yep, that one for sure, there's a couple more as well but it's been years since I listened to Slanted & Enchanted

sleeve, Friday, 26 January 2018 18:54 (one year ago) Permalink

I think the most commonly mentioned is "Conduit for Sale" and "A New Face in Hell".

― jmm, Friday, January 26, 2018 12:51 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha yeah wow that never occurred to me but totally

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 18:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Our Singer has kinda a Hip Priest beat happening ... the similarities between the two bands are overstated though, yeah.

tylerw, Friday, 26 January 2018 18:57 (one year ago) Permalink

There are more, if you want to hear it. 'Hit the plane down', 'Chesley's Little Wrists', arguably 'Two States'

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 26 January 2018 19:00 (one year ago) Permalink

'No life singed her'

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 26 January 2018 19:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Compare the artwork of say "Slanted & Enchanted" to "This Nation's Saving Grace"...

EvR, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:08 (one year ago) Permalink

i feel like pavement was a much more conventional band than the fall ever was, though they had their idiosyncrasies they ultimately (esp in their maturity as a band) wrote rock songs

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 19:09 (one year ago) Permalink

ultimately, so did The Fall

circa1916, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:11 (one year ago) Permalink

i can't remember what pavement's actual fall cover sounded like. i used to have that single. probably sounded like pavement.

scott seward, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:13 (one year ago) Permalink

sure you aren't thinking of their REM cover, "Camera"? I don't recall an actual Fall cover

sleeve, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

They’re pretty different sounding bands, Pavement loose and ambling, The Fall more tightly wound, but no doubt Malkmus and co. lifted occasional musical bits and the influence in song/album titles, artwork, lyrics seems fairly clear.

circa1916, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Even these kinds of freakish fantasies have their roots in the world from which Smith came. My friend, the writer Steve Hanson, once told me his Lancashire high school classroom was “full of little Mark E Smiths” evolving their own bizarre slang and tall tales. This collective propensity to daydream and experiment with language has a long working-class history. It’s an implicit challenge to the pressure of speaking “properly” and settling into the drudgery of your expected role.

https://theconversation.com/northern-white-crap-that-talks-back-the-falls-mark-e-smith-spoke-for-weird-manchester-90710

Enjoyed this appreciation from David Wilkinson.

Alba, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:18 (one year ago) Permalink

pavement did the classical in '97 or thereabouts (during a Peel Session iirc) xp

tylerw, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:19 (one year ago) Permalink

it was on their major leagues single. a peel session track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_STY9g7-YPA

scott seward, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:20 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost xpost

scott seward, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:20 (one year ago) Permalink

oh cool! thanks y'all

sleeve, Friday, 26 January 2018 19:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Tons of Drag City-era Pavement aped The Fall pretty hard, this one notably:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k67p7DN-SWo

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 26 January 2018 19:51 (one year ago) Permalink

i feel like pavement was a much more conventional band than the fall ever was, though they had their idiosyncrasies they ultimately (esp in their maturity as a band) wrote rock songs

― bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, January 26, 2018 1:09 PM (fifty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ultimately, so did The Fall

― circa1916, Friday, January 26, 2018 1:11 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

okay maybe i didn't word it right but put it this way, i think esp post-crooked rain, i think pavement wrote a lot of songs w/chord changes melodies etc that were pretty conventional, much more so than, like all recent fall albums which are often one weird punishing riff with synth gurgles and mark e declaiming on them...

like you could cover a lot of pavement songs with an acoustic guitar and they would still seem like the song, whereas (obviously not 100% of the time) often i don't think you can easily separate fall songs from their arragement, instrumentation and smith's delivery...

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 20:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Are these Blaney albums any good? I'd never even heard of them.

https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/ed-blaney

Seems Mark featured prominently on all of them.

afriendlypioneer, Friday, 26 January 2018 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

"In the early days of the Fall, he financed the band by giving Tarot readings to local housewives" hahaha

Nabozo, Friday, 26 January 2018 20:36 (one year ago) Permalink

That Fall influence was super evident in Pavement's early days—extending to the sleeve art as mentioned and a lot of the aesthetic, the two-drummer run, I remember thinking abt Malkmus this guy even dresses like MES and shares some mannerisms. I say this as a fan of Pavement

Patton Oswalt Defense Lawyer (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 26 January 2018 20:37 (one year ago) Permalink

i thought that whole Peel session was Fall covers tbh but i might be misremembering

hard to be a spod (Noodle Vague), Friday, 26 January 2018 20:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Sonic Youth did that, don't know about Pavement.

koogs, Friday, 26 January 2018 20:39 (one year ago) Permalink

I find those Blaney records to be kind of lifeless, though they did a good "Transfusion" together

Patton Oswalt Defense Lawyer (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 26 January 2018 20:40 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp

oh right, i was misremembering then

hard to be a spod (Noodle Vague), Friday, 26 January 2018 20:41 (one year ago) Permalink

has an actual cause of death been announced? it doesn't seem like they were even sure why he was sick recently.

akm, Friday, 26 January 2018 20:43 (one year ago) Permalink

bout ten years ago, there was an ad on tv for I think like a fancy car or something that licensed a Fall tune…it was in UMS' phrasing "one weird punishing riff with synth gurgles and mark e declaiming on them..." and this brontosaurus, swaggy groove…does anyone know what the name of the tune is?

veronica moser, Friday, 26 January 2018 20:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Blindness, great song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVnsmADFCIg

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 20:57 (one year ago) Permalink

rock 'em sock 'em, UMS!

lord knows everyone here should watch this…saw it a few years ago and he is of course magnificent in the interviews…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InXwZc4RS7M

veronica moser, Friday, 26 January 2018 21:00 (one year ago) Permalink

The UK had this one more recently, which ended up in court...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=89yWGa-ibjs

koogs, Friday, 26 January 2018 21:02 (one year ago) Permalink

(^ car ad, touch sensitive)

koogs, Friday, 26 January 2018 21:03 (one year ago) Permalink

I was listening to someone on The Last Word (R4 obit show) talking about MES earlier. He was saying he was like an inverse of the classic Con-man psyche, who'd possess an intuitive talent for saying what you want to hear. In his case he had a gift for zoning in on people's insecurity and doing the exact opposite.

calzino, Friday, 26 January 2018 21:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Wonderful work by Jes Skolnik

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/the-ugly-truths-of-loving-the-falls-mark-e-smith/

Ned Raggett, Friday, 26 January 2018 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah I just read that, really good

sleeve, Friday, 26 January 2018 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

^ me too, although I think because I saw the link on Ned's FB. I think it sums up how I look at him much better than I could.

Colonel Poo, Friday, 26 January 2018 21:40 (one year ago) Permalink

that was really well done

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 22:11 (one year ago) Permalink

Reading that made me think that with MES, maybe the long-term hagiography will be less than with Prince or Bowie or all the others. In part because the nasty side is so integral to his image. But following from that, unlike most famous people he really didn't feel like he was looking for adoration. I'm sure at some level he appreciated it, but it was matched by an instinct to bury it, like it would interfere with his secret formulas.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Friday, 26 January 2018 22:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Exactly right. I know Brix a little and made sure to offer her my condolences before going on to say anything about MES elsewhere.

kim jong deal (suzy), Friday, 26 January 2018 22:22 (one year ago) Permalink

That Jes Skolnik obit is very good.

I Haven't actively listened to The Fall much in the last 10 years, but I've realised this week how deeply Mark E. is ingrained in my psyche, how many of his tics have been absorbed into the way I write and think since the first time I heard "Living Too Late" 30-odd years ago. For better and worse he's one of the few people I could consider a role model, because he taught me another way to look at my own class and how it informed my sense of myself.

Mortality can get fucked imo.

hard to be a spod (Noodle Vague), Friday, 26 January 2018 22:35 (one year ago) Permalink

Prince has really been sanitized, he really went out of his way to ruin a guy I used to work with who was his videographer and director in the 90s, and he had actual money behind him to do it unlike MES who mostly just seemed done with ppl when they were out

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 January 2018 22:57 (one year ago) Permalink

There was always a strong element of hilarious and angry class consciousness that MES was constantly preaching, not just in his music, in his interviews and the usual ephemera like that, that I always treasured, even if I wasn't listening to the music.

calzino, Friday, 26 January 2018 23:03 (one year ago) Permalink

That's beautiful and poignant NV. If anything, timewise, it's been the other way around (listened to them more and more over time, and started late), but the outcome is more or less as you describe.. In that he's become one of the few 'role models' (for lack of a better word, and I'm reaching here), or someone I've internalized and admired because he wasn't a saint, because he had his stinking feet in the mud like all of us, and didn't pretend to be anyone other than he was. That "informed my sense of self" like rarely any other, to use your words.

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 26 January 2018 23:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Hey that made me cry a little, geez. Xpost

albvivertine, Friday, 26 January 2018 23:12 (one year ago) Permalink

Reading that made me think that with MES, maybe the long-term hagiography will be less than with Prince or Bowie or all the others. In part because the nasty side is so integral to his image.

You mean like Lou Reed, Beefheart and other heroes of Mark E. Smith?

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Friday, 26 January 2018 23:38 (one year ago) Permalink

btw Martin Bramah's guitar playing on the first album is fkn great.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Friday, 26 January 2018 23:46 (one year ago) Permalink

I think my ultimate Fall heroes apart from Smith are Scanlon and Steve Hanley, who stretch all the way from Dragnet into the late '90s. Amazing contributions all along the way.

timellison, Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:12 (one year ago) Permalink

Steve Hanley MVP

Patton Oswalt Defense Lawyer (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Elena's synth was really crucial to the band in the latter days. she really had a knack for pulling out really infectious yet primitive lines that went well with the bands more streamlined approach

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Although I’d dabbled in The Fall for years it was reading Steve Hanley’s book a couple of years ago (after seeing Brix and the Extricated) that properly opened up a route in; MES is the constant, but I got really interested in whatbthe different line-ups/eras brought to The Fall. It’s a really good book.

michaellambert, Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:28 (one year ago) Permalink

btw Martin Bramah's guitar playing on the first album is fkn great.
Tom D's post

ha, was playing the same album, yes MB set the standard, but I hate the production on Witch Trials, everything sounds isolated, boxed in, whereas Dragnet was immediately their sound, piercing yet murky garage played inside a hollow volcano disguised as a disused cinema

Dr X O'Skeleton, Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Yes, I think they recorded the first album in a day, to be fair. However the drums are too loud and Karl Burns is overplaying hideously.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Songs are great though.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Witch Trials has a very 70s sound

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:40 (one year ago) Permalink

and definitely feels like whoever was producing was trying to make them sound like a "real band"

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:40 (one year ago) Permalink

It's like the producer thought the singer can't sing, the band can't play but the drummer's pretty good I'll push him up in the mix.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:41 (one year ago) Permalink

See, I prefer Witch Trials to Dragnet. It's one of my favourite Fall albums.

Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:43 (one year ago) Permalink

I like it a lot

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:45 (one year ago) Permalink

I think my ultimate Fall heroes apart from Smith are Scanlon and Steve Hanley, who stretch all the way from Dragnet into the late '90s. Amazing contributions all along the way.

― timellison, Saturday, January 27, 2018 12:12 AM (thirty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yup, although I never considered MES a hero. I don't care what John Peel said, when Scanlon and then Hanley left they were never the same.

Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, 27 January 2018 00:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Up till about 83 there was this frenzied, mad invention on every record. Take Slates; nothing else sounds like those songs, from the creeping menace of An Older Lover to the newsflash/pulp radio drama of Pink Press Threat, and the bouncing groove of Leave the Capitol. It's just stunning. And they followed it with Hex. That degree of creativity had to dissipate somewhat, and as the 80s wore on, they more often resembled a rock band, a very fine and unique one, but less terrifyingly alien than the earlier entity.

Dr X O'Skeleton, Saturday, 27 January 2018 01:06 (one year ago) Permalink

pretty sure MES would have nothing but justifiable contempt for the 'early stuff is better' POV

Levitate & the Marshall Suite Peel Session are pretty fuckin' alien, not to mention "Weather Report 2"

sleeve, Saturday, 27 January 2018 01:15 (one year ago) Permalink

^^^^^^

imago, Saturday, 27 January 2018 01:24 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't care what John Peel said, when Scanlon and then Hanley left they were never the same.

― Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, January 27, 2018 11:47 AM

this is the point of changing

Haribo Hancock (sic), Saturday, 27 January 2018 01:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Are there any good essays or pieces out there about The Fall and "Northerness" specifically? There's some good stuff in "Mark E. Smith and the Fall: Art, Music and Politics" (incl. Mark Fisher). Anything else?

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Saturday, 27 January 2018 01:50 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8P6DDCZZhw

Heavy Messages (jed_), Saturday, 27 January 2018 02:23 (one year ago) Permalink

thx sleeve!

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Saturday, 27 January 2018 03:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Witch Trials probably my least favorite in the catalogue up until early 90's Shift-Work, Cerebral Caustic, somewhere in there....and then it ramps up again for another great run!

Patton Oswalt Defense Lawyer (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 27 January 2018 04:07 (one year ago) Permalink

pfft Shift-Work is awesome, in my top 5

sleeve, Saturday, 27 January 2018 04:09 (one year ago) Permalink

IMO (speaking as someone who was avidly buying their records at the time) "27 Points" lost the 90's plot a bit, along with that ridic "Touch Sensitive" box and the flood of stupid Receiver label outtake discs, all of a sudden there was a lot of superfluous product out there. "Cerebral" is hit & miss, but I love everything after that up to the AYAMW/Reformation period which is my least favorite even though there are stil great tracks scattered in.

sleeve, Saturday, 27 January 2018 04:12 (one year ago) Permalink

(by "everything" I mean "the proper studio albums", not the bazillion random live discs from the last 20 years)

sleeve, Saturday, 27 January 2018 04:15 (one year ago) Permalink

i love shift work too. Idiot Joy Showland, The War Against Intelligence, Edinburgh Man, You Haven't found it yet, White Lightning, High Tension Line. all completely awesome.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Saturday, 27 January 2018 04:26 (one year ago) Permalink

It's funny cuz I dig most of those tracks but that period for me—save for the blast of fresh air that is Infotainment Scan—is where things go a little beige, or at least the left turns are fewer. But after that I''l rep for the five record run of Levitate through TRNFLP as shoulder to shoulder w/ pick 5 from Rough Trade/Beggars years

Patton Oswalt Defense Lawyer (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 27 January 2018 04:52 (one year ago) Permalink

The Unutterable despite being CD-era overstuffed is just a completely WTF amazing record

Patton Oswalt Defense Lawyer (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 27 January 2018 04:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Shift Work, Code: Selfish, and The Infotainment Scan are this awesome little hidden, pastoral era.

I only ever saw the Fall during this time, on their American tour when they were first on Matador (Infotainment). They had this set with, if I remember correctly, these painted clouds suspended from something.

timellison, Saturday, 27 January 2018 06:00 (one year ago) Permalink

I love the run from Shift Work up though Cerebral Caustic. Annoyed that I never did get to see The Fall.. sigh

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 27 January 2018 07:04 (one year ago) Permalink

i am pleased to report that Bargain Booze in Prestwich now has a Mark E Smith tribute in the window https://t.co/UYBuKJFQxv

— jamie k (@jkbloodtreasure) January 26, 2018

mark s, Saturday, 27 January 2018 10:00 (one year ago) Permalink

that tribute in full:

Cheers to Bargain Booze in Prestwich, who let me leave a tribute to Mark E. Smith on their hallowed turf pic.twitter.com/IqZFkV47Lm

— Red Robbo (@Orwell_Fan_Fan) January 25, 2018

mark s, Saturday, 27 January 2018 10:01 (one year ago) Permalink

I sat and drank
For three decades.
I'm forty five.

would perhaps be more suitable there

koogs, Saturday, 27 January 2018 11:25 (one year ago) Permalink

i saw the fall only once in 2003. it looked like mes was sleepwalking but he definitely didn’t sound like he was sleepwalking. his voice was in the red non stop and there were no pauses between songs. a mix of new and older stuff, mainly mid to late 80s if older. the band was solid and on pure nerves. mes only turned down one amp. there were no fights. very fun night.

barreras, Saturday, 27 January 2018 15:56 (one year ago) Permalink

Saw them only once on the Main Stage at Phoenix 96 and they were great, MES on very much his best behaviour. They released the set as a stand alone CD iirc so MES must have thought it was a good gig. The mid-late 90s were crazy; just looking at the poster and that same weekend across that same stage you had Neil Young, Bowie, Bjork, Massive Attack, Sex Pistols, Alanis Morisette, Flaming Lips, Foo Fighters, Beck, Gza, Prodigy, Stereolab..

piscesx, Saturday, 27 January 2018 16:56 (one year ago) Permalink

I was at that. Iirc it was a different year they released on cd, phoenix 95 maybe

Colonel Poo, Saturday, 27 January 2018 17:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Looked it up, it's both years but mostly 95, 4 songs from 96

Colonel Poo, Saturday, 27 January 2018 17:09 (one year ago) Permalink

I was there too in 96, first time I'd seen them and all I knew by them was This Nation's Saving Grace. I remember it was in the middle of the afternoon, which felt weird, and the cameraman spent the whole gig filming Brix and ignoring the rest of the group.

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 27 January 2018 17:56 (one year ago) Permalink

I was aware of the Fall then but all I'd heard was Why Are People Grudgeful because it was on one of those Indie Top 20 CDs. I did like that set though. I was a bit daunted by the huge discography, and this was around the time they put out all those dodgy compilations, so I didn't actually take the plunge and buy something by them for a couple of years when I bought Perverted By Language on CD, it was the version with the singles on it so it had Wings which quickly became my favourite song by them and has remained so.

It's a pity that Phoenix festival wasn't successful because it was only about 25 miles from my home town, I went with my sister in '96 and my grandma drove us there, she had aunts who lived in a village near the festival site so she knew all the back roads and we skipped all the traffic.

Colonel Poo, Saturday, 27 January 2018 18:39 (one year ago) Permalink

I saw 'em around that time, too... I remember them playing 'The Chiselers' and Karl Burns looking terrified during his bit.

Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, 27 January 2018 18:42 (one year ago) Permalink

I saw them once but got so drunk I don't remember a thing about the gig, which I guess is at least kinda appropriate.

albvivertine, Saturday, 27 January 2018 21:05 (one year ago) Permalink

Saw The Fall on the 1993 tour (w/ Scanlon/Hanley) and then again in 2001 when he had the young rockabilly backing band, lots of turning down the amps on that show. MES looked especially tired the 2nd time, as opposed to drunk (semi-functioning alcoholism?) the first time. Some setlists c/o the webz:

1993:
M5
Ladybird (Green Grass)
Glam Racket
Lost in Music
Why Are People Grudgeful
I'm Going to Spain
Big New Prinz
The Mixer
Free Range
The League of Bald-Headed Men
Paranoia Man in Cheap Shit Room
Idiot Joy Showland
Strychnine
War
Hit the North
Deadbeat Descendent
A Past Gone Mad
High Tension Line

2001:
The Joke
Cyber Insekt
Two Librans
And Therein
Touch Sensitive
Crop-Dust
Bourgeois Town
Kick The Can
F-oldin' Money
Mr. Pharmacist
Sons of Temperance
My Ex-Classmates' Kids
Enigrammatic Dream
I Wake up in the City
Reprise: Jane - Prof Mick - Ey Bastardo
Way Round
I Am Damo Suzuki

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 27 January 2018 21:17 (one year ago) Permalink

The Hearts DJ played 'Edinburgh Man' nice and loud at half time. The best part of the game for me.

call me by your name..or Finn (fionnland), Sunday, 28 January 2018 00:20 (one year ago) Permalink

xp I really like My Ex-Classmates' Kids (which is why I don't think Are You Are Missing Winner is that bad really)

Colonel Poo, Sunday, 28 January 2018 00:35 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42EfHW5npko

i had a riot watching this tonight.

meaulnes, Sunday, 28 January 2018 00:43 (one year ago) Permalink

The Hearts DJ played 'Edinburgh Man' nice and loud at half time. The best part of the game for me.

Now that is cool.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Sunday, 28 January 2018 00:54 (one year ago) Permalink

That's really cool!

khat person (jim in vancouver), Sunday, 28 January 2018 04:17 (one year ago) Permalink

it is. and it's worth pointing out to non-scots that Hearts = Heart of Midlothian football club.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Sunday, 28 January 2018 04:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Xpost:mojo video. So nice to see him laughing and enjoying himself so much. Such a character. Man, I don't think I'll ever stop missing him. I haven't stopped blasting The Fall since Wednesday. Sometimes I think Peel was right, they really are all you need.

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Sunday, 28 January 2018 06:42 (one year ago) Permalink

xp I really like My Ex-Classmates' Kids (which is why I don't think Are You Are Missing Winner is that bad really)


otm, it’s a favourite (the whole album as well as that particular song)

Fizzles, Sunday, 28 January 2018 07:18 (one year ago) Permalink

beginning to feel my way slightly, probably best expressed by messages to another fall fan (obv all getting in touch with each other):

hey! likewise. it’s hit me harder than i expected and tbh media reports/social media/personal reminiscences don’t really help. there’s something v central about them, and at the moment i don’t know how to represent that. feel it’s best done through small observations or categories of stuff than grand statements. will let you know how it goes as i would like to put something together but it will need to be different from anything else out there that i’ve seen.

yes, same here. paul hanley put it well just now i thought:

“I’m not one for crocodile tears and hagiography, but the thought that this is now a finished piece of work has made me genuinely sad.

Well, that was tearful. I've updated the 2017 Fall Gigography page, including videos from the last Fall outing on 4 November at QMU in Glasgow. Thanks to Mike Ritchie for those. And thank you to the immortal MES. https://t.co/hzJpQ16zaL

— Fall news (@fallnews) January 27, 2018



it’s not exactly that i’m upset, but this group and this man have been a constant internal companion for 25 years. it’s not wild to say that they formed and educated me. so, the absence of that teacher… it’s almost like i need to grasp it before i can explore it really.


that hanley tweet btw:

I’m not one for crocodile tears and hagiography, but the thought that this is now a finished piece of work has made me genuinely sad. https://t.co/ZgU39qldr4

— Paul Hanley (@hanleyPa) January 28, 2018

Fizzles, Sunday, 28 January 2018 08:19 (one year ago) Permalink

BBC6 has a concert available for a limited time from 1995 Roadhouse and lots of tributes.

EvR, Sunday, 28 January 2018 09:03 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry06oPMtB20

i hate the guts of shakin' stevens.

meaulnes, Sunday, 28 January 2018 18:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Hey little singer come on up
Show us your house and show us your cock

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 28 January 2018 22:34 (one year ago) Permalink

the working class has been shafted
so what are the fuck you staring at?
your philosophy in life it seems
living out some ad man’s dream

Fizzles, Monday, 29 January 2018 03:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Finally felt up to listen to something and ended up going with New Facts Emerge for whatever reason. No real stereo setup at home so cranked it up in the car, incidentally the same setting that i’d first heard it back in the summer. Anyway, it’s not an original thought but it’s just impossible not to be affected by Nine Out of Ten; by the song itself and its position as the last song on (presumably) the last Fall album.
It reminds me a bit of Job Search, which has that similarly forlorn feel, pared-back, no drums. (At the time I was amazed at how close it came to the tones and colors of Perverted By Language)
But also of Ol’ Gang. Both songs use a backing track that repeats—on Ol’ Gang Smith lets it play out once and only starts singing the second time around. Nine Out of Ten flips that to devastating effect.

“Then I was older…”

The sound of the guitar absent Smith’s voice is so close to how death actually feels: (they were -just- here, they can’t be gone)

Priory, Monday, 29 January 2018 03:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Just got the dvd of that Hacienda gig (includes 3 other gigs as well) and though it was a bit expensive (about $50)I'm very glad I did, as it's shit hot! MES is absolutely on fire, making an effort to get the lyrics right and in sync with the change-ups. Not often the case with many live shows. Sweetheart was prone to this as well. Anyway the dvd is outstanding and definitely recommended to whomevers inclined. Also was listening to that "red box" comp. from a few years back and was nearly in tears during last minute or so of O! Brother. Anyone who ever sex The Fall were a "one note/idea" proposition, just aren't really listening. I was overwhelmed by the poignancy of those last few verses and Mark's vocals are quite well...gorgeous.

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Monday, 29 January 2018 03:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Beefheart not fucking sweetheart. Fucking spell check on kindle sucks!!!!!

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Monday, 29 January 2018 03:51 (one year ago) Permalink

And "says" not "sex". For Christ sake man. Sorry folks!

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Monday, 29 January 2018 03:52 (one year ago) Permalink

*pogos furiously to oh brother bassline*

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Monday, 29 January 2018 04:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Beefheart not fucking sweetheart. Fucking spell check on kindle sucks!!!!!

Captain Sweetheart :)

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Monday, 29 January 2018 09:51 (one year ago) Permalink

At school, q Captain Beefheart concert had a surprising cameo in a history project. The teacher mistakenly read his name out as Captain Beefeater, annoying my friend Owain. Captain Sweetheart is better though.

Alba, Monday, 29 January 2018 10:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Captain Sweetheart is my fav thing :)

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 29 January 2018 13:40 (one year ago) Permalink

But also of Ol’ Gang. Both songs use a backing track that repeats—on Ol’ Gang Smith lets it play out once and only starts singing the second time around. Nine Out of Ten flips that to devastating effect.

“Then I was older…”

The sound of the guitar absent Smith’s voice is so close to how death actually feels: (they were -just- here, they can’t be gone)

I was thinking what a good final track for... everything... 9 out of 10 was, but that's a really nice observation about the doubling up. It's also nice that his voice is so raw and exposed in the mix.

Fizzles, Monday, 29 January 2018 13:50 (one year ago) Permalink

Great live clip of "Words Of Expectation" interspersed with MES talking about the group, and then Kay Carroll yelling at Tony Wilson on the phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtUI7KSXZ68

city worker, Monday, 29 January 2018 14:32 (one year ago) Permalink

btw research on the Gigography site reveals the first of the two Fall shows I saw required me to rush from home, TV-watching the Mets' miraculous World Series Game 6 win. So best night ever, or at least top 10.

Saturday, 25 October 1986 Ritz, New York City, New York

Barmy / City Hobgoblins / Living too Late / U.S. 80s-90s / Terry Waite Sez / Riddler / Mr. Pharmacist / Lucifer over Lancashire / Shoulder Pads / Gut of the Quantifier / Gross Chapel-GB Grenadiers / Bombast / Prole Art Threat // R.O.D. // L.A. / Cruiser's Creek

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 02:13 (one year ago) Permalink

housemate borrowed me his signed copy of renegade. enchanting.

meaulnes, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 02:19 (one year ago) Permalink

my 2-hour radio tribute:

https://spinitron.com/radio/playlist.php?station=kwva&month=Jan&year=2018&playlist=43814#here

no audio archive, sorry.

sleeve, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 02:22 (one year ago) Permalink

I am sure I was at that show, Morbs!

kim jong deal (suzy), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 10:59 (one year ago) Permalink

this is the first fall gig i went to during my first term at university:

Wednesday, 14 December 1988 Ritz, Manchester

Carry Bag Man / Wrong Place, Right Time / Hit the North / Bad News Girl / Dead Beat Descendant / Jerusalem / Van Plague / Yes, O Yes / Big New Prinz / Cab It Up / Squid Law / Totally Wired / Guest Informant / Bremen Nacht / Tuff Life Boogie / Mr. Pharmacist

faust apes (NickB), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 11:05 (one year ago) Permalink

first time i was really aware of the fall though was because of a smash hits panini sticker album in 85/86, kind of crazy that they were in it in hindsight

faust apes (NickB), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 11:08 (one year ago) Permalink

well, they do love pop-stock stickers...

koogs, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 12:55 (one year ago) Permalink

in other news, copies of The Fallen have disappeared from Amazon except for the ones that are now priced at $50-200 or more :(

had two separate orders cancelled by sellers, really a drag

sleeve, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 15:21 (one year ago) Permalink

This band need more than a book, they require a fucking encyclopedia. Now that there's a definite end to the band, someone'll research and write the ultimate book on this band without feeling like they're shovelling snow while it's still snowing.

Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Don't even mean thus argumentatively but imo endless snow-shovelling is a good thing especially re Mark E. Can't demarkate that stuff

bizarrer Gandhara (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:05 (one year ago) Permalink

housemate borrowed me his signed copy of renegade. enchanting.

anyone else? an ebook at my library.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Don't think this has been linked here yet, a selection of MES/Fall articles from the archives of The Wire:
https://www.thewire.co.uk/in-writing/the-portal/archive-portal-marke-smith-the-fall

willem, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 10:30 (one year ago) Permalink

oh cool, cheers!

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 11:46 (one year ago) Permalink

The Marshall Suite is really fun

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 14:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Thanks for heads up on The Wire Fall archive. Some good stuff in there.

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 19:26 (one year ago) Permalink

:)

mark s, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 19:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Ian Cusack on MES

EvR, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 19:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Not sure who Ian Cusack is but that was the single best post-death piece on Mark i've read yet.

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:19 (one year ago) Permalink

fucking hell the live version of middl. mass on 'a part of america, therein' is incredible.

meaulnes, Thursday, 1 February 2018 17:25 (one year ago) Permalink

that whole album is really great, also has my favorite version of "Totally Wired"

sleeve, Thursday, 1 February 2018 17:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, agreed, the CD with Slates/A Part of America... was my introduction to early Fall, and what an introduction it was.

I was just thinking about an essay I read in a book which analysed 'I Am Damo Suzuki' in depth - I read it round 1997 or so, it was in an anthology with all kinds of articles about pop music, some dating back to the very early 50s, and I'd really like to get hold of it again. Does anyone have any idea what it could be?

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 1 February 2018 17:31 (one year ago) Permalink

been listening to the comp - A Past Gone Mad

comp of 90s Fall material, very good listen....assembled by the comedian Stewart Lee

anyway seems to be a pretty good overview of the era

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 1 February 2018 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Man, Brix and the Extricated doing "Hotel Bloedel" sure is sweet.

timellison, Friday, 2 February 2018 01:21 (one year ago) Permalink

LOL

You recently played in London with 60s American surf rock legend Dick Dale. How did that go down?

It was all right (laughs). All you heard all night was Dick Dale. He was on before us and we couldn't get away from him. Everywhere you went back stage at the QEH—twas Dick Dale this, Dick Dale that. We went to the hotel and all his people were there. You turned on the radio and it was talking about Dick Dale. Everywhere you went he was there. According to Dick Dale he Invented Link Wray, The Beach Boys, psychedelic Frank Zappa muslc, Elvis Costello. Dick Dale Invented every sort of music, according to him.

Did you meet Dick Dale?

(Laughs) I didn't want to meet him. We were all trying to avoid him. He was Dick Dale!

Pumpkin Soup and Mandy Patinkin (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 2 February 2018 03:37 (one year ago) Permalink

^from that Wire trove, one of the Invisible Jukeboxes

Pumpkin Soup and Mandy Patinkin (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 2 February 2018 03:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Brix and the Extricated doing "Hotel Bloedel" sure is sweet.

I was so glad I got to see Brix and the Extricated late last year. It now seems...fitting. Great gig, too.

Grandpont Genie, Friday, 2 February 2018 14:08 (one year ago) Permalink

I hope MES got to hear the Longmont Potion Castle call to Dick Dale.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Friday, 2 February 2018 14:40 (one year ago) Permalink

arid al's dream!

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 2 February 2018 17:44 (one year ago) Permalink

very good track, underrated compilation obscurity

sleeve, Friday, 2 February 2018 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

xxxp sounds like MES learned a trick or two from Dick Dale about claiming to have invented various types of music!

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 2 February 2018 17:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Arid Al is possibly top 10 fall for me

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Friday, 2 February 2018 18:01 (one year ago) Permalink

i was listening to a dad's army radio episode when falling asleep last night and, half-awake, was surprised upon hearing captain mainwaring say "i love you all but cannot embrace you all" -- the last words in MES's final message. turns out the captain was dreaming about being napoleon and those were his words. maybe this is common knowledge?

new noise, Friday, 2 February 2018 18:01 (one year ago) Permalink

not to me, thanks for that!

sleeve, Friday, 2 February 2018 18:04 (one year ago) Permalink

oh cool! jesus, he knew he was done

imago, Friday, 2 February 2018 18:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Righteous mes Easter egg

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Friday, 2 February 2018 19:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Good spot - I had no idea where that phrase came from - but he'd been using it as a sign off for some of his irregular dispatches for quite a while. He issued this statement via VISI.com in 2009 (but obviously has extra poignancy in his final usage):

HEREWITH annual May missive message from I, Mark E. Smith on this day of celebration/reformation:

ANOTHER year has passed - rapidly for some, too slowly for I, one-legged yet again. And yet, things re: The Fall improve, our new label, although young, are coping just about with 'The Fall". Yea, in a Castleford studio built on gravel the group cracked down some odd things. The main concern to avoid the much-ripped off already 'Imperial'. Our next record will be something that scum like that choke on. We will not be playing 'I.O.W.' 'FEST' either but will play the Mojo sick-trio.

STICK ENEMIES IN FRONT OF DAYTIME T.V. AVOID GERMAN-BERT'S MOCK ART EXHIBITION IN L.S.W.

I love you all but i cannot embrace you all/ -As of last year, your dearest pal-

MARK E. SMITH for 'The Fall' 2009

As I type this in the swirling gales of consequence I wish you, my pals, all the very best. MAY THEIR INSIDIOUS RAPPINGS DISINTEGRATE INTO THE FOREGROUND

Doran, Friday, 2 February 2018 20:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Although... now that I say this. If this was written during the period he was in his wheelchair, he did become so ill *I believe* that he nearly died.

I interviewed him not long afterwards told him I was glad to see him on two feet and looking well because I'd heard he'd become so ill at one point he had nearly joined the majority and he said something along the lines of: "Yeah, that's right but this isn't fucking Loose Women John, why don't you ask me about the album?"

Don't want to put two and two together and come up with five though. Kind of depends how many other times he's used the phrase I guess.

Doran, Friday, 2 February 2018 20:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Nope. He used it quite a lot it seems. Here's a variation from 2008:

ANNUAL BULLETIN FROM THE DESK OF M.E.S. May-14-08

Dearest Friends:

The Real Mark E. Smith here:

1)Your contempt for the squirrel thing.

2)Your support for the tour of "L.P. that wasn't out yet.".

3)Your toleration of ghost-writer Collings absurd chapter titles.

--TO YOU I GIVE MY GREATEST THANKS.

I LOVE YOU ALL, MEIN COMRADES, But I cannot embrace you all-
because, in the main, I have pulled out the lap-top lead to use as a handy throttling device for mediaists, activists, groupies and Alan Wise(show not on ever).

From all this, dear friend, there are two things.

1) Beware, Big Dave from Duesseldorf is out of hospital and planning a new book- it is good.
2)BUT the main perogative is "The Fall" group and always will be.

Your pal,
Mark E. Smith
May 2008

Doran, Friday, 2 February 2018 21:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Quoting Captain Mainwaring? That is so perfect!

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Friday, 2 February 2018 22:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Just watched the Decline of Western Civilization, and spotted an MES sticker on the door of Slash magazine's office

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 2 February 2018 22:22 (one year ago) Permalink

more details plz! did it just say "Mark E Smith?"

sleeve, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:24 (one year ago) Permalink

hah okay here's a screenshot, I think it's MES though I could be wrong

https://www.instagram.com/p/BetgpvBB2BR/

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 2 February 2018 22:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Decline of Western Civilization I? it odes look a bit like him but MES really didn't dress anything like that in 1979/1980

(also i'd be surprised if slash were up on him quite that early: he only got his first UK press coverage to speak of in 1979)

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:37 (one year ago) Permalink

s/b does

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Think I read something in one of the older MES articles/interviews that made the rounds again that he very much liked Claude Bessy of Slash, at least at the time.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:39 (one year ago) Permalink

p sure bessy arrived in the UK in 1980 (and worked for rough trade) after slash ceased publication?

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:42 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't know anything about Slash other than what I just watched, but the editor was a Brit and I saw they had a Joy Division article in an issue they were prepping on screen, so it's possible by analogy that The Fall might have reached LA by 1980?

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 2 February 2018 22:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Ha, more than that -- key information here:

http://thefall.org/gigography/gig79.html

Scroll down to the dates starting December 5. VERY much not only played LA by then, but were on a bill with the Germs!

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:44 (one year ago) Permalink

Christ all those LA gigs in that run sound insanely great. And X was on that Germs bill too! Good lord!

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:45 (one year ago) Permalink

So suffice to say yes, I could easily see MES and Claude having met in December 1979, so.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:46 (one year ago) Permalink

oh nice one! X too, good gig

hah xp

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 2 February 2018 22:46 (one year ago) Permalink

(And the Skip King mentioned in various entries is a long-time friend, you can vouch for the stories and provenance in general.)

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:47 (one year ago) Permalink

I love how small history gets sometimes, mentioning another band on a different bill:

"The Nu Kats -- a horrid skinny-tie/spiky-hairdo "new wave" band -- was fronted by Freddie Moore, who was the husband at that time of one Demi Moore (who has retained his surname to this day). They had a huge following for a brief moment and then disappeared shortly thereafter, mercifully never to be heard from again."

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:48 (one year ago) Permalink

(editor was claude bessy wasn't it? french not british, tho he moved to the uk when he quit LA)

also we can check if slash covered the fall: you can download the entire run here! http://www.circulationzero.com

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:51 (one year ago) Permalink

all the same, this is how he dressed then:
http://thefall.org/gigography/79dec14_flyer.jpg

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Ah, no need -- this story from Chris D. of the Flesheaters confirms it:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1816055401738951&set=a.101240486553793.2754.100000035277218&type=3&theater

I can't remember how I became friendly with Mark Smith, but it had to have had something to do with my writing for Slash magazine and the positive reviews Claude'Kickboy'Bessy and I always gave The Fall's records. In fact, everybody who wrote for Slash loved The Fall. I know I was already working at the record company in '81 when The Flesh Eaters opened up for The Fall and Blurt at Myron's Ballroom in downtown L.A. in that summer. I'm pretty certain that was the last live gig for the "Minute to Pray..." line-up until our 2006 shows. Below is a photo taken by Gary Leonard after everyone had played their sets. A dour Fall frontman and an unusually cheerful Flesh Eaters frontman. We were all shitfaced, but Mark, per usual was way ahead of all of the rest of us. I kept in touch with Mark through postcards and letters. I have the image emblazoned in my mind of a beautiful card he sent me of a snow-covered church in Iceland with a volcano spurting lava a mile or so behind it in the background pasted to my Slash Records office wall until I left the job in early 1984. Surprisingly Divine Horsemen got on the bill with the Fall (w/ Mark's approval) when they played the Palace in Hollywood in, what was it? 1985? -'86? Brix had joined the band and was singing backup as well as playing keyboards, if I'm not mistaken. Believe it or not, the bands meshed surprisingly well together. I was a big fan of The Fall and especially Mark's brilliant, surreal, absurdly funny lyrics, from "Bingo Master's Breakout" (one of my favorite song titles ever) and "Psycho Mafia" onward. I played the LPs "Live at the Witch Trials,""Hex Enduction Hour," "Grotesque," and "Dragnet" incessantly, though kind of lost touch with Mark and his music in the early 1990s. We saw each other for the last time in 1997 or '98 when Lydia Lunch kindly asked me to join her and Mark at a poetry/prose reading at The Knitting Factory in Hollywood. I was newly sober. I may have been paranoid, but I had a feeling my sobriety may have caused some uneasy moments between us. As always with Mark, it was hard to tell. We were both socially awkward. I'd been reading about his health problems in recent years, and I knew this day was probably coming sooner than later. It makes me sad I did not get to ever talk to him again. I hope he's resting easy. A brilliant, funny, acidic, cantankerous, sometimes-impossible-to-get-along-with person.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:55 (one year ago) Permalink

xxxp you're right re. the editor, I stand corrected. The Brit was a woman who I think was senior editor or co-publisher or similar. I've switched off the DVD now so can't check.

my favourite fact from watching and reading up on Decline... (apart from he MES sticker of course) was that Exene Cervenka was married to Viggo Mortensen. But I'm sure everyone knows that apart from me!

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 2 February 2018 22:55 (one year ago) Permalink

So do I think the sticker is him, not really, but did they know the Fall back then, oh heck yes.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:56 (one year ago) Permalink

wow they did shows with Monitor! a Joe Carducci favorite

http://disasteramnesiac.blogspot.com/2013/04/monitor-st-world-imitation-1980-reissue.html

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 2 February 2018 22:57 (one year ago) Permalink

also wow would i love to have heard Mark's reaction to the Germs lol

bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 2 February 2018 22:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Don't think it's MES on the sticker, but this has turned into a great story all the same

Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:57 (one year ago) Permalink

This is a fantastic detail from the show of 15th September 79:

"Supporting were Methodisch Tune (writer Ian Penman's band - that's not a typo!), Scritti Politti (in the days when they were experimental and before Green decided to become a pop star). In the audience were Peter Purvis from 'Blue Peter' and Mike Robinson from 'Fingerbobs'."

Dan Worsley, Friday, 2 February 2018 22:59 (one year ago) Permalink

also important and relevant:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0c3rgsIUAAmN5X.jpg

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 23:02 (one year ago) Permalink

No, sorry, I'm not buying Peter Purves.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Friday, 2 February 2018 23:04 (one year ago) Permalink

<3 Viggo

My next best guess for the identity of sticker person: Joan Jett

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 2 February 2018 23:04 (one year ago) Permalink

xp, yeah. More John Noakes' thing I suppose.

Dan Worsley, Friday, 2 February 2018 23:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Quoting Captain Mainwaring? That is so perfect!

no, he's quoting napoleon. sorry i wasn't clearer there.

new noise, Friday, 2 February 2018 23:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Mainwaring/ Napoleon, same thing.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Friday, 2 February 2018 23:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Mainwaring/ Napoleon/Smith, same thing :)

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 23:23 (one year ago) Permalink

"Stupid boy" surely?

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Friday, 2 February 2018 23:30 (one year ago) Permalink

also: re the fall in slash magazine, there's a LOT (which still surprises me but it turns out that's my parochialism projected onto slash): mentioned on 56 pages in 29 issues

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 23:42 (one year ago) Permalink

(most of them are capsule reviews on a larger page with other stuff but even so)

mark s, Friday, 2 February 2018 23:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Is that the infamous "happy" photo of Riley arriving in NZ, which got printed in the local papers (Lie Dream of a Casino Soul was top 20 there!), and so hacked off MES that he fired him?

Michael Jones, Friday, 2 February 2018 23:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Yes, though I don't think that was the only reason. MES claimed that Riley wanted to wear a stetson when he played "Container Drivers", for instance.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 3 February 2018 00:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Well, there was the incident earlier on that tour (shortly after arriving in Australia) where the band were drunkenly dancing to Rock The Casbah in some nightclub, so MES slapped them all. And Riley hit him back. They did an interview on TV the next morning, MES w/black eye.

Michael Jones, Saturday, 3 February 2018 00:10 (one year ago) Permalink

The version I read said it was dancing to Deep Purple that was beyond the pale

Colonel Poo, Saturday, 3 February 2018 00:25 (one year ago) Permalink

what was their Top 20 hit in New Zealand?

love the stetson hat story the most out of all these details (if true, even if not it's very funny)

also love the historical detour into the relationship the band had with the Slash scene

sleeve, Saturday, 3 February 2018 02:27 (one year ago) Permalink

That poster that mark s. posted is A+.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 3 February 2018 02:32 (one year ago) Permalink

"Lie Dream of a Casino Soul" got to #17 in NZ.

timellison, Saturday, 3 February 2018 08:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Great pair of pics.

I don't know about MES being bothered about Riley getting the magpic, he did make a joke about it on that live album. Which has the same photo on the front. Which did get MES approval until he found copies in UK shops before he'd received personal copies, at which point he insisted it get withdrawn.

Still, the MES photo would have been better - he looks a bit like Steve Marriott there.

Mark G, Saturday, 3 February 2018 09:53 (one year ago) Permalink

The story I heard from Chris Knox or whichever NZ musician is that the music mags got distributed to NZ months before the actual songs being pumped up by the NME or whatever got distributed, which is why Joy Divison has a couple of top 5 hits in NZ

Isi, Saturday, 3 February 2018 10:10 (one year ago) Permalink

drunkenly dancing to Rock The Casbah

TO BE FAIR they were not slapped hard enough for this

mark s, Saturday, 3 February 2018 12:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Slapped hard with bonuses maybe

albvivertine, Saturday, 3 February 2018 14:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Still, the MES photo would have been better - he looks a bit like Steve Marriott there.

― Mark G, Saturday, February 3, 2018 9:53 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Feargal Sharkey, more like.

Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, 3 February 2018 14:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Marc Riley has a joker hysterical face

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 3 February 2018 16:53 (one year ago) Permalink

This should be a poll surely?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUeU4l7XcAARuZy.jpg:large

Stevie T, Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Harsh on Telly Savalas imo

Master of Treacle, Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Yes, a lot of that list deserves to be hated but not Kojak.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:46 (one year ago) Permalink

he is a tit tho

mark s, Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:59 (one year ago) Permalink

There's an article on Mark E Smith in the Waitrose free paper.

djh, Saturday, 3 February 2018 20:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Regarding L.A. 1979 gigs - there was an official CD release of the AntiClub gig - one of my fave Fall live recordings.

https://www.discogs.com/Fall-Live-From-The-Vaults-Los-Angeles-1979/release/994907

lingereffect (Kent Burt), Sunday, 4 February 2018 01:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Wow, with a Pascal le Gras cover, no less.

timellison, Sunday, 4 February 2018 07:11 (one year ago) Permalink

The wonderful and frightening documentary is on bbc4 next Saturday

koogs, Sunday, 4 February 2018 11:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Xxxxpost not sure what he exactly "did" on it.but Claude Bessy gets a prominent thank you, literally, it says "TANK: Clde BESSY" on box for the Perverted by Language DVD. Didn't Catholic Discipline do the colorfully named punk chestnut "decadent jew"? I so, thats a rather Mark E Smithian title. Though he would more likely insert it into a line, rather than the title/chorus. Also, Big Thanks to the redoubtable Mr. Raggett on the awesome zine dls. Those are awesome to have around. And that pic of MES w/Chris D is classic!! Chris d smiling is pretty unusual. And MES looks so wasted, holy shit man. The pulled out pant pocket is a nice touch. Gives him thatch "just been rolled" look. Lol. Love you, Mark!! And will really miss catching new interviews and stuff, which often are more interesting than the later records. However, i can always dance to his vibrations for the rest of my crazy days. Thank you again and again Mr Smith.

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Monday, 5 February 2018 02:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Decadent Jew was by the Nuns.

Colonel Poo, Monday, 5 February 2018 06:49 (one year ago) Permalink

The Nuns! O.k. Thanks. I figured someone here would correct me on that. Well, in that case, Catholic Discipline really didnt have ANY good material,I'm into C.B., as a human being/writer, but his band. Yeesh! BTW in the MES tribute at the world's finest Fall website theyve started posting DLable mp3s of various radio shows about MES, from BBC and other sources. Some great listening there.

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Monday, 5 February 2018 08:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Claude Bessey directed the "Kicker Conspiracy" and "Wings" vids.

Mark G, Monday, 5 February 2018 11:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm into C.B.

well done

Dumpster Fire Walk With Me (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 5 February 2018 13:25 (one year ago) Permalink

MES seemed to have a pretty strong fascination with LA/West Coast early on, Claude, Richard Meltzer (Meltzer talks about he & MES ditching the "musicians" to go drink at some bar), Chris D, & MES, seemed to all be fast friends/drinking companions, which jesus christ seems like some serious trouble.

Mark apparently wanted to visit Compton and there's some early zine interview where he claims that Mexican dudes in low riders were all big Fall fans, which seems like his claim that only plumbers & working men came to their gigs in England.

chr1sb3singer, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Einar and MES, a match made in hell but they'll take you to heaven first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5q5J67Mrv0

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 14:46 (one year ago) Permalink

seen on FB: "in the 15 years since The Fall released their greatest hits collection “50,000 Fall Fans Can’t Be Wrong,” it has sold 48,700 copies."

sleeve, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Brian of WFMU about 30 mins into a 3-hr tribute, listen now or later

http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/77281

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:36 (one year ago) Permalink

the hip priest he just played was terrific

adam, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Is this the zine interview, chr1s?

http://jneomarvin.com/interviews-of-our-times/the-fall-unpublished-1981/

MES' West Coast fascination is pretty scrupulously documented in "C & C/ S. Mithering"

the man from P.O.R.L.O.C.K. (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:04 (one year ago) Permalink

"in the 15 years since The Fall released their greatest hits collection “50,000 Fall Fans Can’t Be Wrong,” it has sold 48,700 copies."

fans already had those songs

Haribo Hancock (sic), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:15 (one year ago) Permalink

I bought it anyway

Neue Jesse Schule, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Too fast to write
Too fast to work

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:21 (one year ago) Permalink

As of today I have finally reached the stage where I am ready to just listen to tons and tons of fall for a long time

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:22 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah, I've been revisiting some of the less familiar albums

sleeve, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:34 (one year ago) Permalink

also, boy do I have a lot of issues with this Ian Cusack piece:

http://payaso-de-mierda.blogspot.in/2018/01/mark-is-dead.html

the dismissal of the later records is so obstinate, he admits that he basically never listened to them but.... still hates them?

I think his timeline of the decline is more or less accurate, but he underrates everything after 1994 so comically that it undercuts the piece imo

sleeve, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Listened to Von Sudenfed today, so freakin' good. I'll be honest, I don't think I'd ever bother with Mouse On Mars if Mark wasn't fronting them. Mark did that alot, such a presence he had that anything he was on became his.

"The Rhinohead" - is Mark being auto-tuned? He kinda sounds like Colin Newman does these days.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:47 (one year ago) Permalink

It's a great record all the way through

Entrepreneurial Jism Unshackler (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:51 (one year ago) Permalink

xxpost

I really loved that piece because it was so personal but yeah calling later Fall a Killing Joke ripoff was a bit much, I got the sense he couldn't separate his feelings about MES's self destructiveness from the music

It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 04:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah agreed

I've been starting from the beginning, listening to Live 77 a lot & Bingo Master's Break-Out, along w the earliest Witch Trials songs etc

the man from P.O.R.L.O.C.K. (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 04:12 (one year ago) Permalink

Von Sudenfed is great, like several MoM records are

Haribo Hancock (sic), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 07:51 (one year ago) Permalink

I've got 384 Fall songs (currently) on my iPod and just shuffling through them all day at work and being doing it for last week straight

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 16:35 (one year ago) Permalink

My best friend is a big fan from the early days, doesn't like some of the mid-period stuff (eg Frenz Experiment), and insists last year's album is real good.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

it is!

sleeve, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:18 (one year ago) Permalink

I love the last record but my favorite Fall era is 1978-2017 so yr mileage my vary.

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:19 (one year ago) Permalink

sounds like the funereal was something

It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:40 (one year ago) Permalink

my favorite Fall era is 1978-2017

gets it

sleeve, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:40 (one year ago) Permalink

As much as I love the Brix era, I'm currently still stuck on listening to 1978-83, sometimes poring over the Annotated Lyrics site as I go.

A track that kind of passed me by until now and now sounds like one of the best things they ever did was Hard Life in the Country.

And (slightly arbitrarily of course) for a long time I've said English Scheme is my favourite Fall track I found this version of it from Glasgow's Plaza Ballroom in 1981 where the recording is pretty ropy but the band is just on fire.

Alba, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 19:13 (one year ago) Permalink

oh man hard life in country is so great

D. BOWIE lookalikes permeate carparks
It GETS a bit de-pres-sing

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 19:19 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm currently still stuck on listening to 1978-83, sometimes poring over the Annotated Lyrics site as I go.

Haha yep this is me

the man from P.O.R.L.O.C.K. (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 19:36 (one year ago) Permalink

about to spin the live Reykjavik album for the first time in years. Highly recommended as it captures the lineup right after Riley expulsion. You've got the lone Scanlon in pitched battle against double drummers and Hanleysaurus. Also it has some really really great MES lyrical revisions

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah that weird silver of time right after Riley and before Brix where there is no "lead" instrument just this storming rhythm section making this huge cavernous noise and MES being MES (and occasionally rolling his knuckles over a keyboard) is awesome

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:07 (one year ago) Permalink

That's about as close as they come to being harmolodic rock band

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:08 (one year ago) Permalink

I have no idea if the video links on the WFMU playlist i posted yesterday are in this thread, ck out if not

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Jon do u mean that Austerbaijao album or whatever it's called? Great stuff.

sleeve, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink

yes austerbaijarbo

SNOW on easter sunday
JESUS CHRIST in reverse

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:12 (one year ago) Permalink

the vers of "Backdrop" on there is so amazing

Who put the yellow pills in
The-a-ah Gordon's gin?

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:14 (one year ago) Permalink

it also has the best The Classical sales pitch (elephant... HOUSE... odor)

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:16 (one year ago) Permalink

WPRB in Princeton put together a huge post about Mark and the Fall with audio interviews (with Craig Scanlon in 86 and later with MES in 94), clips from radio shows about the Fall, an on-air accounting of the 1998 Philadelphia show (just before the Brownie's show), a letter from Mark to one of the DJs, pictures of the WPRB library's Fall lps (with DJ notes written on the covers) and other ephemera.

http://www.wprbhistory.org/mark-e-smith-wprb-fall/

city worker, Thursday, 8 February 2018 22:36 (one year ago) Permalink

As a huge Pavement fan, can anyone point me to the most obvious lifts?

― kraudive, Friday, January 26, 2018 10:48 AM (one week ago)

I don't know if it's a lift, but "Forklift" sounds a heck of a lot like a Wonderful and Frightening World-era Fall tune.

timellison, Friday, 9 February 2018 00:02 (one year ago) Permalink

The early Pavement singles/ep & S&E are sort of spiritually in the same realm, scattered, ratty, cryptic, singer sounds like he's trapped in a speaker box at a fast food drive through, but the similarities between the bands is more aesthetic than musical and even then it's a bit trumped up.

Weed vs speed basically.

Also Pavement never had a rhythm section that was in even in the same country as the Fall's (any of 'em).

chr1sb3singer, Friday, 9 February 2018 15:08 (one year ago) Permalink

otm

sleeve, Friday, 9 February 2018 15:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah that always seemed the crucial thing. The Fall ca. Dragnet/Totales Turn were a killer dance band

the man from P.O.R.L.O.C.K. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 9 February 2018 19:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Some more clarification from Pritchard he mentions “parasites and vultures, who have only been around a couple years physically attacking people asking why they were at the funeral.

It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 9 February 2018 19:45 (one year ago) Permalink

Gary Young could have played drums in the Fall.

timellison, Friday, 9 February 2018 22:55 (one year ago) Permalink

it always seemed to me like the Fall's shambolic quality came more from Mark and whoever is playing keyboard/guitar, and that any Fall drummer wld have to be able to hold down a motorik beat for a long time, Gary Young does not strike me as that guy

Entrepreneurial Jism Unshackler (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 10 February 2018 16:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Also MES only allowed for one unreliable drunk in the band at a time

Entrepreneurial Jism Unshackler (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 10 February 2018 16:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Statement from his sisters on the "official" Fall site

We would like to thank family, friends and fans for all their kind words, condolences and memories about our brother Mark.

Also, the N.H.S and staff who treated Mark throughout and Mark’s partner Pam who loved, cared and cherished our brother.

Mark fought a long and hard battle after his diagnosis of terminal lung and kidney cancer. He took every treatment going, which could be brutal at times and left Mark with some horrible side effects. Mark was such a strong man and hated letting his fans down and tried to carry on regardless against all advice.

Mark had a great life and loved and lived it to the full and always by his own rules and we, as his sisters were privileged to be part of it too.

Mark is at peace now and pain free, but we, his three sisters have been left heartbroken and will miss our big brother very much.

Barbara, Suzanne and Caroline.

chr1sb3singer, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:03 (one year ago) Permalink

;_;

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Monday, 12 February 2018 16:05 (one year ago) Permalink

Aw man.

Entrepreneurial Jism Unshackler (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 12 February 2018 16:20 (one year ago) Permalink

I can't believe he played those last shows

It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 12 February 2018 16:46 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah it really is a testament to his force of will

very touching, thanks for posting that

sleeve, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:49 (one year ago) Permalink

One of the things I think that gets overlooked when people talk about the Fall and all the records/songs and all the touring and continuing despite turnovers and illness & etc. is that I don't think you can look at them like a "band" exactly. You need to think about them as a small business, like a plumbing service (MES's dad was a plumber). MES never seemed to wait for creative inspiration or the mood to strike to write songs, they were constantly writing because that's what bands do, they write songs and put out records. That's how you make money.

People quit or get fired you don't close up shop, you find replacements. You might be sick but you press on cuz that's just what you do.

In Hanley's book he points that right from the start (or least from when Bramah & Friel exit) the group was organized from the top down, MES & management in charge and controlling the purse strings and everyone else was essentially an employee, drawing a wage, going to the boss when gear needed to be replaced etc.

chr1sb3singer, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:58 (one year ago) Permalink

And like a small business owner MES sort of equally loves & hates "the lads" and berates them when they fuck up but when Hanley's son is born premature they basically give him six months paid leave (though I suspect that was more Brix then MES)

chr1sb3singer, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:01 (one year ago) Permalink

I just finally watched the videos of that final Glasgow show yesterday

Fuckin hell.

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:11 (one year ago) Permalink

There is a 'tribute' column in Private Eye this week, a sort-of message from the afterlife. It's touching that they did it, it's not something they've done often if at all before. Obviously it's terrible, but hey.

Mark G, Monday, 12 February 2018 18:56 (one year ago) Permalink

"Re-Mit", which I probably haven't listened to since it was released really sounding good this AM.

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 14:08 (one year ago) Permalink

This person’s posthumous top 20 is really well chosen and really really well written.

http://hippriestess.tumblr.com

La Lechera if u want another fall playlist...

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 18:34 (one year ago) Permalink

As a mark of respect for the great Mark E Smith we’ve displayed Grayson Perry’s ‘My Heroes’ with MES’s portrait to the fore. In Studio Ceramics, Room 142, The Lydia and Manfred Gorvy Gallery, V&A. #markesmith #markesmithrip #TheFall #GraysonPerry #ceramics @V_and_A @Alan_Measles pic.twitter.com/jhRNuxhfZc

— Alun Graves (@alun_graves) February 14, 2018

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Thursday, 15 February 2018 09:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Barry Sheen is on the other side iirc. (April Ashley and Aubrey Beardsley also, according to Wikipedia)

There's one of Johnny Vegas' teapots in the same room.

koogs, Thursday, 15 February 2018 10:13 (one year ago) Permalink

it actually looks a bit more like Mick than Mark IMO

Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Thursday, 15 February 2018 10:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Indeed. Lips too sumptuous

Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:52 (one year ago) Permalink

two months pass...

nice

sleeve, Monday, 7 May 2018 15:39 (nine months ago) Permalink

ha ha yes

DACA Flocka Flame (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 7 May 2018 16:17 (nine months ago) Permalink

golden

when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Monday, 7 May 2018 17:20 (nine months ago) Permalink

p sure The Real New Fall LP covers the rest

imago, Monday, 7 May 2018 17:39 (nine months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

Expanded and slightly rejiggered version of "50,000 Fall Fans Can't be Wrong":

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/the-fall-58-golden-greats-58-original-tracks-including-all-the-hits-3cd-boxset/

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 17:30 (five months ago) Permalink

Huh, track list drops "Green Eyed Loco-Man" - which seems like a real loss!

BlackIronPrison, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 17:45 (five months ago) Permalink


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