Teasing

I am notoriously over-sensitive to teasing. I can be very literally-minded, and I take most comments at face value, even if they are supposed to be teasing.

I feel like it's only OK to tease people that you know well. Like, for example, if you know the person well enough that you would actually say it to their face with a straight face, and not worry that they would hit you.

I don't know what the line is, and I'm interested in finding out where other people think it is, because I know that I'm oversensitive about it.

But that's how I prefer it. Neither taken nor given.

'part from that, i'm fairly relaxed about stuff.

Because I will admit that I was teased mercilessly at school as a child, about things that I had no control over, in a way which today might actually be considered bullying.

This is, perhaps the reason that I don't react well to teasing now, and no, it's not something I'm ever going to "lighten up" about.

I hope I will be proved wrong. Kind of.

Generally, I don't like being teased about my voice, stature, untidiness or about what I do or don't know.

I know, I thought that before I posted it. But if I waited for a more sober and sensible Monday morning, I think I would forget to post it.

Maybe I should forget about it and revive it later. Though it will probably turn into a flamewar now...

I get pissed off at people saying "Oooh, looky, a catfight!" because I'm responding negatively to being teased, and I want to know why that is.

Some people take it differently to others, I guess I am harsh sometimes, not that I say really bad things but that I don't make allowances for really sensitive people. Well, I wouldn't tease someone I thought was genuinely upset, but obviously part of the fun is when the teasing has a bite to it.

Mind you I mainly mean messing with my close friends, we all know each other so many years now there's no qualms about whacking each other with something particularly biting. It is all in good spirits and it's not like it's what we do all day, just after a few drinks and things.

One of my best friends is coming home this christmas after being away for ages, and aswell as hanging out with him and catching up, I must say I am really looking forward to taking the piss about the stories he's been telling us etc.

It's a really difficult question to answer because I think part of the enjoyment for me is people being truthful and maybe harsh through mocking, it's kind of therapeutic. I guess it becomes offensive when one person is always the butt of the joke, or when someone who can't respond in kind is singled out.

I sound like such one of VER LADS now or something but so many times when I laugh uncontrollably it's when a friend says something fucking awful and out of line and another friend responds with something even worse, provided both are laughing, I've never seen any friends fight or teasing get really serious. Maybe if it does I wouldn't know.

I just think "Cut the bullshit tell me what you really think and so stand or fall on that!"

Does that happen to anyone else?

It's difficult to see whether or not the line between bullying and teasing can be drawn in any way other than "It depends whether the recipient minds or not" or "it depends whether the recipient takes it as a joke or not".

Me too.

but obviously part of the fun is when the teasing has a bite to it.

Does this have a slightly sadistic element to it? I really have to wonder sometimes.

Also, the jealous/resentful thing that Mark H brought up, that's very interesting.

I think what irritates me is people that tease me for things that they themselves do. Then call me hypocritical for calling them on it, when they're being just as hypocritical for bringing it up in the first place.

Which is strange, cause there is another kind of tease, which is quite pally, in a "oh dear, I do this, too" sort of way.

My really close friends, the ones that I feel incredibly comfortable with, are the ones that I feel comfortable teasing and being teased by. I often tease, say, Catty and Suzy, on this board, in a way that might even look like I really have it in for them if you didn't know we were friends IRL. Yet if someone I didn't know that well teased me in the same way, I'd throw a shit-fit.

(see: The Office)

xpost - watch it lose this message again...

Now I'm scared I'm all "playing the victim" or whatever. I hope I'm not doing that. I'm just trying to investigate and explain my own behavior.

But it all breaks down if everyone doesn't get that it's all in fun (or, I suppose, that someone doesn't come from a social setting where teasing is a part of showing affection), and that's where you have to stop, panicked, midtease, and do a lot of damage control.

(xpost, of course)

Or if someone comes from a background where bullying-degree teasing is supposed to represent affection...

But yes things get nasty if this isn't the case.

Which is a common enough habit with people: It's easier to pinpoint someone's foibles, to even notice them, if it's something you have trouble with yourself. And you mention them in order to deflect attention away from the fact that you do the same thing. (And often this backfires.)

Object = "oh lighten up take a joke blahblah"

Respond in kind = stomps off ready to hate you for that...

I think the problem is that for certain people, teasing just becomes such a habit. I was teased at school, never really badly I don't think, and I was a smart ass so I would answer back.

I think the problem is as you grow up, and this is terrible really, some people are victimised and others are bullys, and I guess others still are somewhere in between. I suppose I'm so used to teasing being a normal thing to do that Teasing can become natural, and when it's mostly water off a ducks back I guess it's easy to assume everyone takes it like that.

I've never been a bully specifically to anyone but I'm sure I've been harsh to people before, moreso in school than these days, I try and avoid situations where I might just take the piss nowadays cos I know how easily I'd slip into it.

when it's mostly water off a ducks back I guess it's easy to assume everyone takes it like that

Yeah, I think this is a real problem. Like when C**** apologised to me, he seemed utterly astonished that I'd actually been hurt or offended.

Well, yeah; there are cultures where physical bullying is a form of teasing, which makes me highly uncomfortable. (There was someone who I used to work with who would sometimes be very physical in his affectionate teasing in a sort of frat boy way and it always made me uncomfortable even though I realized he was just trying to be affectionate; and he was a fairly mild form of bullying-as-affection, since he wasn't trying to do actual damage with his affection, or even that much intimidation.)

Dan shouldn't you be putting on your catsuit for this evenings TV debut?

x-post I now imagine Tico Tico running around a table and making silly gestures and pointing at Pete while Pete sips a beer solemnly.

Ronan, I guess I was just using him as the most recent example, but honestly, I've encountered the attitude so much before.

x-post, Tom-

If someone repeatedly reacted really badly to it, rather than good-naturedly (as Pete seems to it) - then does this affect it?

Which does mean, in that latter case, that you have to put up with it; but it is good to distinguish between the people who made you uncomfortable from their good intentions versus the people who were actually out to get you. (And there are grey areas in between of course...)

People tend to be rather tedious if they stick rigidly to one tone or style, and the internet tends to magnify this. My friends are people I can tease one moment and cry on the shoulder of the next.

Dan, while you are a big tease (in every sense, obv), you also know when not to and know when it's not required or approriate. That justifies pretty much everything.

Basically, I just want us all to love each other.

(N. - when I tease you, do you ever think I go over the top? I reckon we've remained pretty much okay, but I might be wrong)

Yes. Search: The Boston C/D thread for straight up hate/ignorance/hive mind. You just have to try & ignore it. (but i lost it in on that thread, but maybe i am over-sensitive, this isn't helping is it..)

xpost

One of the major ones is the expectation of empathy - "They *must* see that what they're saying/doing might be causing offence!" Unfortunately there is no *must* about it - sometimes ppl have an amazing capacity to be oblivious to the needs and feelings of others, much as we might like it to be otherwise.

Another major reason is wanting to play along, get on with ppl, be part of the in-crowd and not rock the boat "OK, so I'm upset by what this person is saying, but there's no way I'm going to tell them I'm upset, coz then I would come across as a grump, a square, someone who's difficult to get on with, someone with no sense of humour or whatever".

I didn't read the Boston thread, because I tend to avoid threads that spiral hundreds of posts out of control.

Some people on ILX do seem to tease "because it's fun/funny" regardless, and sometimes seeming *because* people react negatively to it. That really worries me - I don't know if it's because the internet obscures this sort of thing, or if it's some kind of latent sadism.

God, MarkH, you are so on the money here. So many times I have just ignored hurtful teasing because I don't want to start a fight, and I honestly believe that to react to teasing is just to inspire more. When maybe my *lack* of response about what was bothering me made the other party think that I was OK with it, and only exacerbated the teasing.

I know I have no sense of humour, but I don't want to come off like a total humourless git all the time. :-(

Teasing in abundance, but mildly kind of...

Umm, you think?

xpost: Tico OTM.

The other thing is - for a new person coming into a work environment which has a high acceptable teasing level it can be really offputting, not to mention a bit frightening. The company I'm with now has a really massive divide between the people who get involved in really quite harsh banter (lots of pretty personal, nasty stuff) and the ones who just sit and say nothing - there's no bullying; the banter is never from one group against the other, all the people in the group dish it out just as bad as they get it, but it creates an exclusionary culture for people who won't 'play ball' at that level.

It's a bit sad I guess, I do think though divides like that only create an illusion that people in one group are very different from those in the other. Sure, some are, but not all.

I so would!

I think that's a good insight but you can still deal with both groups as a human being, I have a workplace where there is a big cultural divide between the creative people and the money people, and you just deal with each other as the situation dictates. Which is to say, I tone down the 'you're a bedwetter' teasing when I'm talking about the bottom line.

Teasing from bosses really is the worst, I guess I had a sound boss this year in both jobs, they used to mock my hair alot, and I would say "have a fucking shave, did you spend the night in jail" daily. I think sometimes it's seen as a staff morale thing to some bosses.

The point I'm trying to make is that every communication you make must be tailored to the audience, and that includes jokes and teasing. There's one guy at work who gets it a bit worse than the others, but that's because he invites it and he admits it...he plays up certain aspects of his personality for effect. Maybe my experiences aren't terribly applicable to other workplaces though because a big part of my JOB is being funny (I do a morning show on the radio, oh the horror) so we're constantly trying jokes out on each other.

That being said, often times that will happen (a joke is made or someone teases someone and the "oversensitive" person will leap in with some kind of rudeness or overreaction) and, at least for me, my previous teasing will just turn into out-and-out "Let's wind this easy target up for laughs" which is admittedly quite rude and bullying. I kind of think, though, if you are going to go that extra step and make the rude/personal/inappropriate comment to begin with, you should be kind of ready to get it back in return.

This has nothing to do with Mark C! I honestly had no idea my ragging on him was really bothering him until he completely blew up the other day and we sorted that out privately. So there's also a bit of what smee said, some people kind of know each other and assume that if someone was really bothered, they'd email you and be like "Are you pissed?" and if they don't you assume water-off-the-back thing.

I'm not commenting on the teasing at work issue because my workplace is the most unhealthy environment ever! It skews the curve big time.

I did read your answer, Dan -- I thought it was very interesting. I've also noticed that with my posts too -- when I'm serious I'm either ignored or people think I was joking. I guess it's because I tend to make short, jokey posts most of the time. I tease people a lot, but usually only people I like. I hope it has never gone over the line.

I knew this when I was in school so when set upon by a psych-bully I would seek to cause MAXIMUM embarrassment to them (a little Freud is dangerous in the hands of a precocious 14-year-old). These were the kind of Very Ordinary Midwesterners who go 'oooooo!' if you use a word longer than ten letters that isn't 'motherfucker'. I'd be all like 'is it because there's no love at home, or is it the kind of love where your uncle's going to do time for it?' to BOYS. I got away with it because arts teachers found it hysterical, despite themselves and while serving my apprenticeship as the school's Dorothy Parker I was discovered by nice punk girls. So it worked out for the best.

I fuck like one too!

But I mean when you've got someone who starts it and then proceeds to get very upset, that's just silly. I mean, yeah, it's not exactly big or clever to then continue to wind them up but why did they get involved in the first place? I behave this way due to a complete lack of patience, basically; it's my defense mechanism against just completely turning into a hermit and avoiding all of humanity because I hate them. I try to entertain myself, sometimes at the expense of people who I think are acting incomprehensibly. I'm not even ever actually pissed off when I do it, it's just like "Hahaha you could set your clock to this person's reactions couldn't you?" It's very high school but so is pretty much any other behavior being described.

* ;) for anyone confused.

Huck, were you in high school at the time?

Can you take a joke?
Are you a disher or a taker?

I guess my main rule is - if one seriously has a problem with someone then teasing is not an appropriate strategy to adopt. It's just nasty to hide vitriol under a cover of "I'm only teasing". There are a couple of people on ILE I can't bear, but I just ignore them because short of saying "I think you're rubbish" there's nothing I can do. I only tease people I have some time for.

I think this is one of the most sensible things that N. has ever posted here, and I need to write it down and memorise it. I think I am sometimes guilty of this, that I try to use humour to defuse a potentially explosive situation - I joke at someone to hide the fact that I really *am* angry or hurt.

Perhaps Ally does have a point about "once you've opened the floodgates you can't close them again" - once you've had a bout of teasing/nastiness/whatever, you do kind of open yourself up for it. But again and again, there's a sensitivity of time and place and mood that goes along with that.

People change, situations change, and when you start bringing things up 6 months, a year after they have happened, stripped of the context in which they originally happened, to me, that just seems nasty.

I need to go back and read this thread more carefully.

In some cases, I think it's a genuine knee-jerk attempt at humour to displace tension with humour. But, as N pointed out, it's very hard to mask real anger/dislike with humour.

(Unless you're Dan. And I think in a way it's kind of a shame that his Dirty Dan routine has been so encouraged on ILX to the detriment of his serious posts. FWIW, Dan, I *do* actually enjoy your more serious contributions, and often find them pithy an informative - it's just difficult sometimes to dig through 100k of fart jokes to get to them, hence why I miss them sometimes.)

I believe in positive/negative behaviour reinforcement, and I do believe that people can change. A person that makes an effort to change and be nicer/less bullying should be rewarded for that attempt at improvement. Dragging back up old examples of their trollism or their bitchism does not positively enforce this change - it just makes them defensive and pushes them back into negative behaviour. (Yes, I include myself in this, as well.) Treat someone like a baby, and they will act like a baby.

Work teasing - I just find that caustic and abrasive and it creates a hostile work environment that I cannot tolerate. I prefer to remain standoffish and quite formal at work. (Funnily enough, I did some work for a friend last year, and he could not believe the change in my personality, how "professional" I was. It really surprised him.) I don't *want* to progress to the level of intimacy with work colleagues where teasing is acceptible.

As I say, in the work environment, teasing can mask or suggest an abuse of power...