welcome to the cultural revolution (aka what the FUCK is wrong with the florida legislature?)

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Meeting this challenge to liberal education and the Socratic method with haughty disdain for the intelligence of David Horowitz & Co. is exactly what those resentment-mongers count on. The championing of the Bible by many people is their way--however ultimately pacifying--of rebelling against the status quo. Many, many students feel intimidated by their fancifully educated, upper crust instructors, obviously privileged (unless you disagree and subscribe to some sort of romantic theory of genius that just happens to favor the well-heeled) in ways the "conservative" (read "rural") student will never enjoy. These are the ones our public education system ostensibly was established to enlighten; insulting their beliefs or the beliefs of their parents is not the smartest way to go about reaching them. I don't know what the solution would be if this threat ever gets serious (which it won't, I bet), but high-handed sarcasm and Bible jokes probably isn't it.

Professor Pushover, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:00 (nineteen years ago) link

also, and this is based purely on my very limited experience, but the notion that the power in the classroom rests with the professor and not the students is hardly the case in american universities and colleges presently. quite the opposite, disturbingly so.

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:01 (nineteen years ago) link

um, i'm a "rural" student

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:03 (nineteen years ago) link

anairn has done this sort of thread derailing before -- and almost ALWAYS when the thread is criticizing conservatives. he's like roger adultery, only sneakier and more passive-aggressive.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:03 (nineteen years ago) link

and worse spelling

Shmool McShmool (shmuel), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:05 (nineteen years ago) link

insulting is bad, no disagreement. but insulting =/= challenging!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:05 (nineteen years ago) link

i think prof pushover's class analysis is a bit over-simplified (maybe to make a point clearly): the 60s of course saw a huge rise in the proportion of the NON well-heeled in tertiary education throughout the western world, and while this has fallen back quite a bit it's nowhere near fallen back to the levels of even the 50s - and many teaching now came precisely from this intake

(also i wd rather give up the socratic method entirely than put a crimp in my disdain for the intelligence of david horowitz)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link

david horowitz isn't exactly a country rube, to say the fucking least

Shmool McShmool (shmuel), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:09 (nineteen years ago) link

James, I didn't mean to suggest that all rural students are dopey conservatives.

About the power dynamic, thing, too, you might be somewhat heartened to know that your experience is not universal. Cue Snap: "I've got the power." But that's because I respect my students, even those ign'ant conservative Christians. If anything, the main "problems" I've seen in classrooms involve kids having too much fun--still hungover, the occassional ones obviously stoned, etc.--but that's part of the college experience, so I work around that. Teaching's fun, believe it or not, and the fun party kids (who skew conservative, strangely) can be a good time.

Professor Pushover, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm probably a better speller than anthony.

A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:10 (nineteen years ago) link

haha THAT'S SETTING THE BAR REAL HIGH!!

(sorry anthony)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:12 (nineteen years ago) link

"nairn how many times have you been kicked out of the classroom for challenging your professor? what were these professor's names?"

not personally, but I have kept silent when a professor has been going on about something that was completely contradictor to my belief.

"nairn has done this sort of thread derailing before -- and almost ALWAYS when the thread is criticizing conservatives. he's like roger adultery, only sneakier and more passive-aggressive."

It's not when the thread is criticizing conservatives, but when the thread criticizes Biblical Christianity.

A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I've kept silent when my Popular Music in American Culture prof said disco died. Just let it slide.

Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:14 (nineteen years ago) link

it kinda got lost in the midst of all this what-the-fuck-is-anairn-on-about? on this thread, but socratic method teaching seems to be good for one thing -- teaching students to argue and back up their statements (ergo, its widespread use in american law schools). where it is NOT good (or, more precisely, where it was not good for ME) is that it's pretty lousy in instructing the students in the subject matter purportedly being taught -- it's pretty inefficient and roundabout. and again, to get back to law school (sorry to bore, but this is where i have first-hand knowledge) -- all of the verbal socratic acrobatics was largely useless come exam-time, where you were expected to issue-spot and apply "black-letter law" and if you went "socratic" on an exam you would kill precious time and space and GET A SHITTY GRADE.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:14 (nineteen years ago) link

but you got yr revenge on the dancefloor that very night!!

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I criticize the lack of openess to the Biblical Christian worldview among some of society and the apparent hypocracy of that segment of society when they want openess for whatever view they hold.

A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I LET IT ELECTRIC SLIDE!

Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm probably a better speller than anthony.

yer on a par spelling-wise w/ hanle y -- though NOT in terms of wit (unless yer whole series of posts is a gigantic leg-pull, in which case you've out hanle y'ed hanle y wr2 amusing incoherence!)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:16 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah for the maths part of my degree i don't think we did ANY socratic method (but i guess maths is all received facts until you reach doctorate level)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:18 (nineteen years ago) link

i thought the highest level of um, the tertiary in the american colleges was post-wwii via gi bill ie. how this tertiary is in college right now.


haha actually the one time i've had a john houseman type prof was this EXTREMELY conservative who tended to dismiss my liberal objections to whatever she was on about that day (eg. that the liberal media didn't give the janet jackson brouhaha the attention it deserved)(my persecution drawing response: 'are you fucking kidding me???'). ego-mad professors exist but pretending there's a correlation between ego and ideology seems quite suspect to me and even here i suspect persecution at most = not being patted on the head or agreed with, god (sorry God) forbid. i'm not even sure there's any relation between openminded/humble teacher = good teacher. certainly not the case in boot camp at least.

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:18 (nineteen years ago) link

dear god hypocrisy must be about the most overrated and overprosecuted crime in america today. and nairn you're really not the person to be prosecuting (or persecuting!) it.

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:22 (nineteen years ago) link

(well if so say 50s when i said 60s, and 40s when i said 50s, james: the bulge in the UK is certainly more the 60s than the 50s)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:23 (nineteen years ago) link

classrooms aren't generally meant to be open-forum discussions, all as equals: when did conservatives starts arguing THIS!!?

(the last bit's rhetorical) (though a date wd be entertaining)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Mark S, my analysis is oversimplified. And "high culture" on the whole, the academy included, has grown more egalitarian since the miraculous 60s. But still, there's a way higher percentage of people engaged in graduate studies whose parents have the means to buy them houses while they get their PhDs than there are in our armed forces. Students notice, too, believe it or not.

Professor Pushover, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:26 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah pp otm there

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:27 (nineteen years ago) link

I just want to hear all these right wing X-tian teachers that are getting harrassed for expressing their opinions

um, there's an article about "jesus in the classroom" from last week's new yorker about this guy in silicon valley...

does it bother any so-called christians, biblical or otherwise, that using a word like "persecution" in regards to having one's belief challenge completely debases the term? like, y'know, how having a professor challenge your beliefs is NOTHING like being set ablaze, gored by lions, or crucified?

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:29 (nineteen years ago) link

gored by lions? don't you mean unicorns?

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:30 (nineteen years ago) link

they didn't exist, noahmark s.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:31 (nineteen years ago) link

and yeah, i'm specifically referring to the persecution of early xians by the romans, which makes the complaints of a nairn and his ilk look like the whiny bullshit it is.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:32 (nineteen years ago) link

thus proving evolution, though true, sucks

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Students notice, too, believe it or not.

ergo, this thread ----> Trustafarianism ... and THIS thread ----> defend the indefensible: THE IVY LEAGUE

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:34 (nineteen years ago) link

proving devolution maybe? devo was right!

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:35 (nineteen years ago) link

bow down to your new god:

http://www.synthfool.com/maw/booji.jpg

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:36 (nineteen years ago) link

it wz an x-post really (i wz mourning the unicorn) but it worked even better as a devo ref!!

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:36 (nineteen years ago) link

devo trumps unicorns every time, mark.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:38 (nineteen years ago) link

only bcz they exist :(

mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:40 (nineteen years ago) link

hstencil wins

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:42 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.leestoneking.net/images/Church%20History/Lion_Coliseum.jpg

"just a bit of fun. let's all be cool."

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:51 (nineteen years ago) link


j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:51 (nineteen years ago) link

we use our coliseums for a different kind of torture now:

60,000+ Hispanic Christians to “Rock” at LA Coliseum

Three days of inspirational music and messages

Los Angeles, CA (PRWEB) February 19, 2005 -- ActionHouse presents Festival Bajo el Sol, three days of inspirational music and messages at the Los Angeles Coliseum for the Hispanic Christian community with performances from the best Christian entertainers and speakers.

Who: Internationally renowned Speaker Luis Palau. Performances by Marcos Witt, El Trio De Hoy, Annette Moreno, Joshua Chavez and many more!

When: Concert July 16th 5:00 – 9:30 pm. followed by Youth After Party On the Infield till 12:00 am - Carnival July 15 – 17, 2005

Where: Los Angeles Coliseum - 3939 S Figueroa Street, Los Angeles, CA 90037

Tickets: $19.00 General Admission, $35.00 Infield (ages 2 and under enter free!) tickets will be available thru Ticketmaster, Christian bookstores and at the Coliseum box office. Discounted Group tickets available 1-800-872-7002

Located in the heart of the city and the Hispanic community, Festival Bajo el Sol is expected to draw between 60,000 – 80,000 people with carnival rides, booth merchants and family festivities.

"Last year's event at the LA Sports Arena was so successful," states producer, Benny Colon of ActionHouse, "that we were asked to do it again!"

ActionHouse is located at the Los Angeles Dream Center in the heart of Los Angeles, California. Mentoring the youth and inspiring artists of all nationalities, ActionHouse is helping to develop the next generation of inspired artists, actors, and producers. Their facility includes dance studios, private editing suites, student lounge, and a computer lab with state-of-the-art workstations for video editing and production. Through internships and mentoring programs, ActionHouse is making a way for the next generation. www.actionhouse.net

More information on Festival Bajo el Sol, performing talent, or merchant and sponsorship opportunities visit www.festivalbajoelsol.com

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:52 (nineteen years ago) link

I read this as:

Tickets: $19.00 General Admission, $35.00 Infidel

Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:53 (nineteen years ago) link

hahahaha!

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:55 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.unicornlady.net/Quotes/uni-lion.jpg

tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Friday, 25 March 2005 03:50 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.brooksinternational.com/images/pat_obrien.jpg

Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 04:43 (nineteen years ago) link


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