How does one become a bastard?

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I'm increasingly tempted towards becoming a paid-up subscriber to the "women only like guys that treat them like shit"/"nice guys finish last" school of romantic theory.

My paradoxical problem is that I could never treat someone I care about like shit. I could (and, admittedly, have in the past) behave badly towards someone I didn't care about but in that case, I'd never be in a relationship with them.

Solutions? Or has this been covered before?

― uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

required info before proceeding: how old are you?

― ()ops (()()ps), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

how old are you?

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

how old are you?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Find different women, women who are looking for what you're looking for in a relationship. Work on making yourself more attractive as in ways that don't go againt your principles or make you feel like a phony. There may be women who like guys who mistreat them, but I'm sure that's not universal.

― RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

how old are you?

crosspost

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

oh rjg you cad

― ()ops (()()ps), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

are you good looking?

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

(Get a room, folks.)

― RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Just because you're nice and sweet doesn't always mean women will be attracted to you. Personality's important as well (even though many men feign one up until it's discovered that they're just charlatans).

― Ian Riese-Moraine's Plateau Rouge! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously there are a few women who want to be treated with respect. But not many.

― Wilfred, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

A lot of people, male and female, are damaged and fucked up in various ways, and you just have to make the best of it, or not, and try to hone your intuition and don't let bitterness and cynicism get too out of hand. (I don't know why I am giving out so much advice tonight in an area in which I have been an abject failure.)

― RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i)We have had this thread like eight times.

ii) The correct way to change your personality is to just ahead and change your personality: change the way you act at every opportunity, and as much as you can try to think differently too, all the time. It takes about six months, you'll feel like a phony at first, often, but this will fade. It won't be something you can turn on and off, it'll be *the way you are*. Setting yourself up to fail with "to thine own self be true" stuff won't wash.

iii) This is a bad idea. Other people can say why, better.

iv) Why does using tombot style e-mails make you post in a totally different way?

― Gravel Etc, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

In my experience, men who say that women only like bastards are identifying completely the wrong reason why women don't like them, since they a) usually are bastards, just cowardly ones, and b) have dozens of really obvious huge drawbacks that they don't want to face. Just making that ludicrous and completely wrong statement is a strong pointer towards misogyny (though it falls short of being conclusive), for example.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:11 (twenty-one years ago)

THANKYOU Martin. So true.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Martin totally OTM.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Martin otm.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

It seems like some women are drawn to (translation: would more readily have teh sex with) men who exhibit confidence to the point of arrogance, this being somehow more attractive than introvert hyper-sensitivity/'emo' types.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:18 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.laddertheory.com/

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve is also right but neither confidence-bordering-on-arrogance nor hyper-sensitive-emotionalism have any bearing on how much of a bastard you are.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:19 (twenty-one years ago)

But then what DOES constitute the behaviour of a 'bastard'?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, personally I am very put off by confident, arrogant men. But that is obviously just me I suppose. Its not like I want to be the one with the upper hand (or maybe it is?) but I dont want someone else telling me like it is, so to speak.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

So, I've been single all this time because I'm a bastardy custard, then?

(I know I can be a bastard - human nature - but usually not towards women)

― Negativa, True Believer (You know you love it when I'm dressed in drag) (Barima), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ballesteros..."

― Bastard Ballerina (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, I thought the whole point of say, finding ones soulmate, is that no power play happens AT ALL? Am I wrong thinking this?

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Power play can be fun.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:25 (twenty-one years ago)

To blokes who don't/can't make themselves attractive to the kind of women they want to pull, anyone who does/can is a bastard. Apparently.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Massive generalisation, but isn't everything? People who pull like they're picking candy off a conveyor belt ARE bastards, though. That said, some of my best friends are bastards.

― Negativa, True Believer (You know you love it when I'm dressed in drag) (Barima), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Sigh.

I would say Martin OTM but there's so much else going on here.

I mean, I have slept with an above average number of bastards. But maybe that's because only the bastards actually have the *guts* and/or arrogance to come on to someone like me. All of the nice guys I know kind of stand around complaining about how they never have a girlfriend, and what am I supposed to say to that? "Dude, you're hott"?

And I'm sick of making the first move because I'm sick of getting rebuffed.

― The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I suggest bullying people more. The bullyish guys at school always did better with girls than their victims. WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE'RE NOT AT SCHOOL ANYMORE?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I sadly have to confess that I think I gravitate twards those sighing recalcitrant lads, and then I tend to boss them about like a harpy til they run off, or turn into clingy freaks who I run off from. Still, that hasnt happened in some time and Im happy with my lad now.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Good to hear Trayce :)

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

alpha males - C or D?

― Negativa, True Believer (You know you love it when I'm dressed in drag) (Barima), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, possibly, Trayce, in a way, me too. I like the slightly hesitant, shy stuttering posh boys. And I would *love* to be able to boss them into going out with me. But they tend to be TERRIFIED of me.

― The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't know too many bastards; one is a lawyer, the other is some sort of banker, so that's the route to take: high-paying jobs make you a bastard.

― N_RQ, Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

*Starts anticipating employemtn feverishly*

― Negativa, True Believer (You know you love it when I'm dressed in drag) (Barima), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

It's fair to say that some men and some women passively 'prefer' being 'bossed around' by their partner because they're own assertiveness isn't as high by nature or possibly by design (I'm not sure if my own abhorrence of arrogance from an early age made me veer too much the other way until recent years). It's not necessarily a harmful thing, even in a serious relationship, though this depends on what other factors surround that relationship.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Bastardness is not divided along employment lines.

One of the worst bastards I ever dated was a lawyer. But then again, two more of the worst bastards I ever dated were a feckless trustafarian artist and a feckless musician/artist type. One of the *sweetest* most lovely guys I ever went out with was a banker. So go figure.

― The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Bastardness comes in all shapes and sizes and spurts.

― Negativa, True Believer (You know you love it when I'm dressed in drag) (Barima), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

There is also a distinction between out-and-out bastards who are the same whether in a relationship or not, and men who are ok people but do bastardy things when in relationships. Same with women obv.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i have a totally rational hatred of bankers, but only one of the many i've known is a bastard.

― N_RQ, Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know any people I would think of as a 'bastard' or 'bitch' when it comes to the treatment of Sexcomplices (look it up, oh wait you can't because I just coined it). But that might be because I can usually understand why they're doing what they're doing if it's a friend and I talk to them about it. Still, I just have no real experience of friends really screwing someone over in some way (cheating or abusing), without it being not just a case of the other person's expectations and hopes just being different from the other person's, and there being a failure to really acknowledge this from the beginning i.e. the more common reasons of for relationships failing (fizzled out/'wanted something new/different' etc.).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh for fuck's sake, how many more pointless threads about this topic do we have to endure? GET AWAY FROM YOUR FUCKING COMPUTER AND GET A FUCKING LIFE END OF STORY

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Isnt it because we HAVE lives that we have these stories?

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"Oh no! Harry The Bastard!"

"That's right! And you owe me five hundred pounds!"

"GOSH! WHAT A COMPLETE BASTARD!"

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

bahahah :D

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

There are 20 million fucking threads on this subject in existence and they always end up the same way. YOU WANT A PARTNER YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIND THEM INSIDE A COMPUTER SCREEN GET OUT OF THE HOUSE/OFFICE AND IN FACT JUST GET OUT PERIOD

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Did you hear something? Nope? Oh well carry on.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

WOMEN LIKE MEN WHO ARE BASTARDS - NO! WOMEN LIKE MEN WHO MAKE A FUCKING EFFORT AND CAN MAKE THEM LAUGH AND HAVE A BIT OF MONEY SO THEY CAN ENJOY THEMSELVES! NOT LANKY BESPECTACLED SCRUFFS WHO HAVE HOLES IN THEIR PRIMARK JUMPER BUT CAN RECITE EVERY GO-BETWEENS B-SIDE

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually Ive found plenty of damn good fucks via the internet.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Word.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, well, we won't go into that...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

night, eengerlish peegs! ;)

(PS thanks for the yay, steve)

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

In answer to the question, I believe the definitive tome on the subject (Adrian Edmondson, 1988) is still available in certain charity shops for under £2.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Wot, the Young Ones Bachelor Boys? ;P

(i am going to bed now honest)

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I should've bought that book years ago. "Dear leccy groovers" etc.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I still have a dog eared copy. I heart it.

ARFGH! BED! Ok now.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I understand that Adrian Edmondson himself is currently available in Finchley Oxfam for £1.50.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Also girls don't like boys, girls like Jobs & Money in the Saturday Guardian.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, please.
saying that women like bastards *does not* make a person misogynist.
let me explain:
if saying this makes you a misogynist and misogynists are, by definition, bastards, then you are a bastard, too.
if this is the case, women should start liking you and you should stop moaning.
if they don't, then it means you are still not amywhere near bastard enough and remain comdemned to eternal relationship failure and will probably die old and lonely..

― stelf0xxx, Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

There's one for the Excelsior thread!

ha-ha x-post

― The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Saying women only like "bastards" is hardly just flat out misogyny, particularly since nobody is saying MEN PICK GREAT PARTNERS, or something.

Surely there is a decent discussion to be had about how both sexes choose partners, I mean if you can't get past the "misogyny" of this title and actually see where the thread starter is coming from then I think you must not have lived on planet earth very long.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

What I'm saying is that a lot of people here would do better going out and choosing partners rather than debating it on an internet messageboard. That is, of course, unless they look at starting relationships on a basis of courtly love as opposed to Kapitalist sex.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you mean yourself or other people?

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

you're barking up the wrong tree with this 'get one life' thing. it's 2.30pm. i'm in an office. i can't go out.

― N_RQ, Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Calum is turning in his grave.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

And what is stopping you?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm doing alright, thanks, and freely admit i can be a total prick on occasion.

― stelf0xxx, Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I already have a partner (as, IIRC, do many of the other people posting on this thread). I also have a job. I would like to *keep* my job because I need the money and I also need the free masters course that having this job enables me to do. Thus, at this particular moment in time, I am fairly ok with mucking about on a message board, engaging in some kind of communication with other human beings, rather than walking out of the office.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe I was addressing the posters without partners who have contributed identical words to the other 21 million identical threads of this kind on ILE.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 26 May 2005 04:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Why am I reading this thread?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

It's fun!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Fun is overly Stasist.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

It's entertaining in exactly the same way that reading books about probability and stochastic causes is.

― The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

being a bastard or not has very little to do with whether someone is attracted to you.

"being nice" (and seeing this as "putting in an effort" and work rather than just acting natural) and expecting this to bring you your sensitive, loving etc. girl causes disappointments when it doesn't happen, and is probably what then brings about the feeling that "omg this guy she fucks isn't even TRYING, she must be only after bastards" feeling.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"Acting natural" is an oxymoron.

Being a bastard has to do with whether or not your parents were married.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

we-ell, it's partly that when you're attracted to someone you don't see all the angles and your wiser, slightly less enchanted ~~cockblockers~~ friends and they can see that you're with a bastard. eg, a good friend of mine and of my g/f has hooked up with someone we both agree is a total bastard, and there isn't much we can do about it.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

acting natural is only an oxymoron when you are using a certain definition of the word acting.

being a bastard is only to do with whether or not your parents were married, if you are using a certain definition, of the word, bastard.

get one dictionary.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Your deficiency is that you engage in subjectivist argument, rather than structured argument as I do. Were you to look at the moral spuriousness of sexual intercourse from the Pauline as opposed to the Nazarene perspective, you would realise that these definitions are the only ones necessary for the survival of cold rationalism.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i said get one dictionary, not one thesaurus.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it's easy for anybody of any sex to have a string of bad luck romantically and start grasping at straws and come to some bad conclusions about the opposite sex.

many girls DO like confidence. but that doesn't mean you have to be an asshole. just more forward than you might be. there's hope Mr. Nice Guy. just stick your neck out more. and if they don't like you, that's their problem. i know that may be a very keen way to avoid personal issues people may actually need to fix to make themselves attractive, but still... if somebody doesn't like somebody, warts and all, then they would've sucked to be in a relationship with. sure, learn from rejection if it's possible, but ya know, if people don't see it, they don't see it. and often it's things we have no control over.

don't be a victim, cause you aren't one. ("womenkind loves assholes!"... "the man is keepin me down!") roll with the punches, cause they're not punches. if they don't dig you, be like the chairman of the board, have class and be cool, be thinking and maybe even saying, "i wish you love!"...

Goodbye, no use leading with our chins, this is where our story ends,
Never lovers ever friends.
Goodbye, let our hearts call it a day, but before you walk away,
I sincerely want to say.

I wish you bluebirds in the spring, to give your heart a song to sing,
And then a kiss, but more than this, I wish you love.
And if you like lemonade to cool you in some lazy glade,
I wish you health, and more than wealth, I wish you love.
My breaking heart and I agree that you and I could never be,
So with my best, my very best, I set you free.
I wish you shelter from the storm, a cozy fire to keep you warm,
Most of all, when snowflakes fall, I wish you love.

I wish you shelter from the storm, a cozy fire to keep you warm,
Most of all, when snowflakes fall, hot time, I wish you love.
All kinds of love, a whole gang of love.

m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 26 May 2005 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

First, display prodigious skill in pod-racing. Ditch your mom at age 10. Fail to confront your anger issues. Kill yeunglings. Melt under melty molten lava. Get one shiny black robotic suit.

― giboyeux (skowly), Thursday, 26 May 2005 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I did all that and look where it got me!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 May 2005 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

As for this thread -- my.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 May 2005 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't even read the thread yet. Can't be bothered, really.

― giboyeux (skowly), Thursday, 26 May 2005 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"i'm not not gonna read this thread because i'm too good for it, but i'm going to post here to announce how much better i am than anyone posting here."

nothing like being a ghost.
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Eep! Did I hurt your feelings? Nothing like being overly sensitive. I made no announcements; I made a crack about Darth Vader. Lighten up.

― giboyeux (skowly), Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I would like to say that Martin's initial post is OTM.

― Allyzay flies casual (allyzay), Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

"Lighten up."

no, the darth vader comment was great. but plainly announcing that you're too good to read a thread... that's fuckin stupid.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe he was demonstrating how one can become a bastard

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

but plainly announcing that you're too good to read a thread

Not too good! Just too busy. ...and here I am reading and responding anyway.

x-post ZING!

― giboyeux (skowly), Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

very wise ken c. sorry giboyeux. perhaps i misunderstood. coffee. really, it's the coffee's fault.
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 26 May 2005 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

No worries. I am a bit of a bastard. Well, at least when I'm drunk.

― giboyeux (skowly), Thursday, 26 May 2005 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoops. That link totally didn't work.

― giboyeux (skowly), Thursday, 26 May 2005 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

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