Top Ten Reasons Why You Hate & Love KISS

Be easy on me, I'm a novice.

I figure if Replacements covered them they can't be all bad.

1. For not knowing when to quit.
2. The KISS solo albums.
3. Touring with Poison post-2000.
4. Superbowl XXXIII Pregame.
5. Unmasked, Crazy Nights,
6. Gene Simmon's relentless overmarketing of everything he's involved with.
7. Over-compilationed.
8. For wearing wigs today -- DEAL WITH IT, YOU'RE OLD AND BALDING!
9. For releasing the same material seventeen different times.
10. For not ending the reunion tour when Peter and Ace left.

Why I Love'em...
1. Eric Carr's crazy short-lived "Chicken Man" suit
2. Music from the Elder!
3. KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park
4. The KISS Army.
5. The live version of War Machine played at Marcada stadium in Brazil being the most intimidating live performance ever
6. Producing their own tribute CD.
7. MTV Unplugged
8. Great live shows, even though they're washed up.
9. The worst/best solo ever on "Love Gun"
10. Because Alex in NYC tells me to?

I'm going with Bryan on this being a plus. Absolutely insane yet wonderful. "Odyssey" might as well have soundtracked all the eighties fantasy films.

10. Their music was never as heavy as they "looked."
9. Money whores.
8. They don't respect the fans as much as they say they do.
7. I just don't think their heart is in it anymore.
6. Gene Simmons.
5. For touring too long/overstaying their welcome.
4. Trying to keep up with musical trends when they built their careers on not following trends.
3. Gene Simmons.
2. For not hanging it up when Ace and Peter left the reunion tour.
1. They are nowhere near as cool as they think they are.

Whey I love 'em .. .
10. Paul Stanley's mid-song banter in concert.
9. For blowing me away on the reunion tour.
8. The "Dressed to Kill" album cover.
7. Paul Stanley's on-stage dance where he kinda kicks his leg out and shimmys across the stage.
6. Rock n' Roll over is a fucking classic.
5. "Strutter"
4. I had an awesome Kiss Lunch box when I was a kid.
3. Paul Stanley wears a fireman's hat on stage during "Firehouse"
2. They basically scared the piss out of me when I was a little kid.
1. Paul Stanley basically rules.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000001ELL.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Despite it being a flagrant attempt at selling out and embracing all demographics they're previously scared off, there are still a clutch of decent tracks on Dynasty. I think I'd have been a bit more jaded towards it had I been a bit older, but while the bloom was certainly off the rose, I was still a card carrying member of the Kiss Army at the time of Dynasty, so I overlooked all the cries of "Disco Sellout!" I actually don't mind "I Was Made..." (didn't someone cover it about ten years ago?), but I also quite like the uber-ridiculous "Charisma" (Gene's ego going into hyperdrive), and "Hard Times" (Ace's tales of teenage stonerism) and Peter Criss' "Dirty Livin'" (Peter Criss takes his disco fury "out on the crowd"). "Magic Touch" is milksop, but I still kinda like it. "Sure Know Something" is fantastic and remains an unsung gem in their catalog.

That said, Ace's cover of "2,000 Man" is lamentable, and "X-Ray Eyes" and "Save Your Love" should've both been left on the shelf.

I'd sooner point this accusation at GWAR. Kiss' first three albums (and Alive, for that matter) are still plenty heavy. Not Sabbath heavy, but still pretty hefty.

Hefty Metal?

Great music though. Just not "heavy" IMO.

Hate: Gene Simmons is SUCH a moronic reactionary asshole.

HATE

10. Three out of 4 solo albums.
9. Producing an archetypal "live" album that wasn't even live.
8. Being a Kiss Army member these days is about as rock & roll as being in the PTA.
7. The manifestations of merchandising weaken the mystique: KISS Colorforms(tm), KISS-opoly board game, personal checks, bowling balls ???
6. Gene & Paul's ongoing conservative stances (anti-drugs/alcohol, pro-war, litigiousbastards, etc) while continually dissing Ace & Peter's rock lifestyles.
5. Paul always trying to make analogies comparing KISS to the Beatles. (Yeh-right, Starchild).
4. Time to just admit you are balding. And gay.
3. They never make due on these promised "farewells".
2. Everything from Unmasked on...
1. Trying to tour as the original KISS with some fucking poseurs playing Peter & Ace. (Fuck That).

LOVE

10. the scream in Deuce (the likes of which we'll never hear from Gene ever again)
9. the precious ability to terrify younger siblings by locking them in a dark room while playing God of Thunder repeatedly. (am I evil?)
8. their seven inch leather heels and going to all of the shows.
7. iconic album cover-art of Destroyer. Forever!!
6. the way Gene/Paul thought their self-indulgent solo albums would be *hit-records*- while Ace's simple outing clearly trumped them all. Ha!
5. the confusing blend of comic-book surreality with adolescent sexual fantasy (exemplified by Gene & Paul's personal letters to you in Alive)
4. They all have very nice hand writing.
3. I gotta give it up to them for creating a trademark visual image as readily identifiable as Mickey Mouse.
2. Their concerts are quite reputable. ( "You wanted the best, you got the best!" )
1. Parasite, Cold Gin, Shock Me, Snowblind, Strangeways: basically anything by my man Space-Ace Frehley.

Summary: Ace is the only salvageable part of the Kiss "legacy". And Gene & Paul should die.

This point cannot be overstated.

http://www.kissfreaks.com/images/misc/aceinremedy.jpg

You realized how white trash this would be and changed your mind?

But "Beth" kinda rules.

You don't need ten reasons, there are hundreds. There is not a drop of soul or anything the slightest bit genuine or even artistic in the entire Kiss catalog, save Ace. Perhaps, if they were the only rock band to exist ever in the history of the planet, I might see a reason for a Kissamry (though I'd most likely look like John Travolta circa Saturday Night Fever if that were the case), but, really, dude, like, Zep EXISTS. Sabbath EXISTS. Hell, even AC/DC, Iron Maiden and Deep Purple EXIST. After hearing ANY of that, are you gonna air guitar to "Lick It Up" with a straight face?

Insincere. Poor writing, mediocre playing (again, save Ace). Stupid gimmick. Most uncharismatic frontman this side of Joe Lynn fucking Turner. The oft-stated opportunism and Ayn Rand worldview. More "duds' to their catalog than even the Stones, but way EARLIER in their careers. Do I need to keep going?

I just sprayed coffee all over my screen and keyboard.

Not anymore they don't. And Kiss and Zep serve very different purposes.

Sabbath EXISTS.

See above.

Hell, even AC/DC, Iron Maiden and Deep Purple EXIST.

The fuck do you mean by even?

After hearing ANY of that, are you gonna air guitar to "Lick It Up" with a straight face?

"Lick It Up" is after the fact. Damning Kiss for "Lick it Up" is like damning the Who for "Athena." It is not the rock upon which they built their empire.

In terms of comparing Kiss to other bands -- I mean, of course there are better bands. My own associations with Kiss come from them being the first band that I really got into (after my folks' Beatle records). They were my band. Later on, I found out about all those other bands and hundreds more, making Kiss look a bit weak in certain quantities, but that doesn't alter the fact that they were awe-inspiring to me at the time. I dare suggest that there won't ever be another band -- including my beloved Killing Joke -- that can conjure the same feelings for me as did Kiss. Indeed, there are so many reasons to loathe them today, but I prefer to remember them prior to all of that. There are a hundreds of reasons to decry Sabbath and Zep today too, but I don't see anyone harping on about them.

Second of all, basing your appreciation - your public appreciation - for a band based solely on nostalgia is dud dud dud, Alex. Shit, Billie Joel brings back memories of my eye-talian noo yawk upbringing, but you don't see me defending The Stranger with such fervor. If you like Kiss because they make you think of your youth or whatever, that's totally cool. But they're still as shit band.

So you see, you sound like an abused wife, making excuses. "You don't know what it's like when me and The Elder are ALONE together, Doris!"

Oh no? Howzabout....

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002LUB.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000005RFR.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000DFTH.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002LB4.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00001ZT6Z.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000008DHS.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg http://www.black-sabbath.com/images/bandpics/bevanband.jpg

So you see, you sound like an abused wife, making excuses. "You don't know what it's like when me and The Elder are ALONE together, Doris!"

You won't find me defending Music from the Elder with any fervor (read #5 at the top of the thread).

And beyond nostalgia, Dressed to Kill and Destroyer are still both absolutely stunning albums. If you can't appreciate them, that's your loss, my friend.

Irrefutably so.

Headless Cross sounds like a damp fart into a paper bag.

Love 'em for:

10. "Deuce"
9. "Goin' Blind"
8. "Mr. Speed"
7. "Sweet Pain"
6. "Anything For My Baby"
5. "Larger Than Life"
4. "Baby Driver"
3. "Love For Sale"
2. "Plaster Caster"
1. "Christine Sixteen"

Hate 'em for:

10. "Tears Are Falling"
9. "Shandi"
8. "God Gave Rock & Roll To You"
7. "Crazy Nights"
6. "Let's Put The X in Sex"
5. Everything on Peter's solo album
4. Those last 18 live albums
3. "Beth"
2. That lame cover of "2000 Man"
1. "Rock & Roll All Nite" - cuz I NEVER want to hear this song again. EVER.

Another reason to hate them: I had the dubious honor of being the graphic designer assigned to the Kiss comics released a few years back. On the front cover of each comic, if all four members appeared, Paul and Gene HAD to be more prominent than Ace or Peter. It was pretty pathetic.

Reason #11 to hate them: Batshit crazy fans who think they can publish Kiss books without Kiss's permission and lie about having a publishing deal and then try to pay you for your services by "giving" you a shitty laptop that's missing half of the keys and call you 10 times a day.

1.Smashes thrashes and hits - Why? loved Eric Carr but why cover Beth
2.Wigs - why? Look ridiculous and is testament to Paul and Genes insistence on denying reality. I mean the comments those two make about Peter and Ace are stupid and comments about the comic book cover just about sums them up
3.Crazy Nights - this was pop metal at its worst
4.Embarrasing interviews by Gene Simmons
5.Gene Simmons
6.Gene Simmons pro-war naivety stance
7.The ever increasing number of live and hits albums - I mean what the FxxK????????????
8.Mindless, pointless, money making schemes and extreme concert tix prices
9.The last 5000 tours since the reunion / farewell
10.The continuing disappointing / uninspiring / unoriginal set lists

ten reasons i love them (no order)

1.Dynasty - every song is a classic - I know others have really dissed on some songs such as 2000 man and x-ray eyes but here in Aussie that album was HUGE and went platinum about 8 or 9 times over. It had two number one songs (I Was made 4 lovin U is one of the biggest selling singles of all time in Australia) However, to this day most people still know and love virtually all the songs off the album.

2.Concert at Donington Park in England in 1996 - that was one of the best shows ever and KISS blew away a very heavy crowd that had Ozzy, Sepultura and others heavies playing.

3.Unmasked - again unlike the US - this album was HUGE and had several big hit singles (Shandi went to #4 and forgot to leave the charts in 1980)

4.The inside gate fold of the double album ALIVE II - awesome!! Could not see how any other band could match that

5.Alive II

6.Love Gun, RocknROll over and Destroyer covers - very cool

7.Despite the outrageous expense - For 50 somethings they really do blow a lot of bands away - that is impressive

8.Their two legendary shows in two very small theatres (seating approx 2,500 in Australia) in 2004 after playing in the larger stadiums - concerts were announced the day before they played and sold out in something like 10 minutes!!! - No fireworks, so special FX - just four guys, amps and some mics the entire night was spent asking the audience what song they wanted to hear - this restored my faith in them - probably the best show ever

9.Ace Frehley - man that guy was way cool -

10.Forever - my wifes favourite song of all time and she is not into Kiss at all - her insistence of including on Wedding DVD.....

My response is lengthy sorry - but in Australia KISS had a different impact. In 1978-1980 they were as big as the Beatles with entire streets blocked off to see them, and KISSMania days across the country in every shopping centre / mall in every centre - it was Surreal and with the exception of the Beatles this has never been repeated.

It is also sad to see comments by Roger about bands I love like Sabbath and Zep amd ACDC and Iron Maiden all of who have immense respect for Kiss and vice versa - Roger leave it alone

hahah, reasons number 1 and 8 on the hate list are awesome

Great thread and ensuing discussions - how did i miss it?

Why i Hate Them:

1. That a mélange of gonorrhea and herpes blisters hasn't thus far transmigrated across Gene's face, neck, and chest.
2. I thought by joining the KISS Army that it would be akin to joining a cult - so, there the application (from R&R Over) still sits.
3. Making all these deals with my mom so i could stay up late and watch the Phantom movie - then, hating it.
4. Taking off the make-up.
5. Keeping the make-up off for more than 2 albums.
6. For each time they lost Ace.
7. Yes Alex, the depths explored with the Olympics show are regrettable, and difficult to contend with.
8. Due to many reasons, one of which being stratospherically high priced tickets, i've never seen them live.
9. That the rumored bootleg of the Eddie VanHalen try-outs have yet to come to light (i doubt they'd be a good match, but still).
10. They didn't end up playing bowling alley's and biker rallies - but hey, that could still happen.

Why i Love Them:

1. Are you kidding; spitting blood and breathing fire!
2. Bobby Peru is right, they DO all have very nice handwriting.
3. My sister saw them about five years back and got me T-Shirt!
4. Two bands i loved when i was eight-years-old are still loved today; KISS and the Mills Brothers.
5. The magna art for "Hotter than Hell" and the reverse (negative) image for "Dressed to Kill" -- b&w film is so sweet. Sure
6. It was a gateway to many other (and better) bands.
7. Me liking them got my old bully-of-a-cousin to quit beating me up.
8. When idiot-extraordinaire Gene, in his interview Terry Gross, seemed mysteriously fascinated with what women did in the bathroom after servicing him (undoubtably for the removal and disposal of their fallopians).
9. The shoes, always, the shoes.
10. That after it all, they were all capable of making some damn fine music.

magna = manga