White Rappers Using the N-word.

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Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link

It's a word that needs swift retiring,....in any/every context.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:23 (nineteen years ago) link

danger in slipping into jimmy hill re: atkinson territory on this subject (i.e. defending hateful and unpleasant use of the word along the lines of 'it's just the language that's commonly used in his line of work') BUT i guess the difference comes from the fact that the n-word is being DELIBERATELY used on a widely accessible format? (ie. he could not possibly be using this word to offend/insult when he is working in a field that would frown upon it in a serious way) (whereas atkinson's remarks were made because he thought no-one was listening, use of the n-word on a widely distributed disc is made cos the user feels that anyone who hears will know that use of the word is clearly without malice.)

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:28 (nineteen years ago) link

(x-post)

alex is def otm BUT, i guess some uses of the word are still more innocent than others?

uh atkinson = football commentator who called a black footballer a "lazy n***er" when he thought the tv show was over (it was still being broadcast in the middle east)

atkinson apologised and sed it slipped out, but jimmy hill = idiot commentator who sed atkinson did not do wrong coz the n-word is the language of the football field.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Big Ron does a Kilroy...

context re: ron atkinson. scroll down to the may 13 posts to get jimmy hill's take on things.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Whilst agreeing that Big Ron was a moron for saying what he said, I can't help but think he didn't mean to be a bigot.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Rowan Atkinson said "nigger"?

http://perversiontracker.com/archives/mr-bean.jpg

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link

for sure, don't mean to make this thread about hill/big ron, it just was the first thing that came into my head when i hit this discussion (ie. that some uses of racist language are excusable/more excusable than others)

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:39 (nineteen years ago) link

A white rapper shouldn't have to feel any word (beginning with "N" or otherwise) is off limits and any consequental black outrage in the hip hop community would lend itself to charges of hypocrisy; this is the natural extension of their own self-perpetuated stereotypes.
On a related note...
It occured to me recently that hip hop is so universalized one should expect to find a neo-nazi variation on the form at this point but evidently that has yet to come. My theory is that fascists are still frightened of rhythm or at least not learned yet how to co-opt it for their own purposes.

herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:43 (nineteen years ago) link

My theory is that fascists are still frightened of rhythm

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/images/art/hjboy.jpg

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:47 (nineteen years ago) link

My theory is that fascists are still frightened of rhythm or at least not learned yet how to co-opt it for their own purposes.

Then explain all those ska influenced fascist bands from the late 70s/early 80s.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:50 (nineteen years ago) link

"My theory is that fascists are still frightened of rhythm"

Er can I remind you Geir is still on this thread. Be polite please.

..., Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:52 (nineteen years ago) link

well maybe not rhythm per se. Perhaps more specifically the potential for dancing is off limits in fascist forms. I'm certainly not suggesting that lack of dancibility is inherently fascist.
It will be covered with greater depth in my new book "Fear of the Funk"
xpost
I forgot about ska but does any racist ska exist today? Pretty much all white power music of the last decade is power fixated dance repellent.
Perhaps this is a question for the people at the Stormfront board.

herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:58 (nineteen years ago) link

what about skinhead gabber???

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 8 August 2004 00:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Nazis don't do rhythm. They're the ones standing at the back twitching at Specials tribute gigs.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 8 August 2004 00:55 (nineteen years ago) link

it's all about context, innit. I've really no idea what the racial tensions are like within the scene in which, say, Li'l Wyte operates, but Em is different because he has legions of white teen fans, many of whom (outside of the U.S. at least, and probably in the USA too) don't listen to any Hip-Hop at all besides him, thus him calling Dre his nigga or whatever has a different effect than Li'l Wyte doing so, because it leaves the context of the (to me at least, I mean, I know that tons of ppl outside of it follow that movement, and I've seen Li'l Wyte get advertised in "XXL") relative.ly closed community in which everyone will basically "get" what the guy means and enters a larger arena where the word, even when used with affection, gains all sorts of disturbing new meanings in the ears of its listeners. A word by itself can never be hateful (which is why Roger is, once again, wrong :-D), it's all about the dynamics of who's using it and who's hearing it.

Haha, Chris Rock to thread also!

A white rapper shouldn't have to feel any word (beginning with "N" or otherwise) is off limits and any consequental black outrage in the hip hop community would lend itself to charges of hypocrisy; this is the natural extension of their own self-perpetuated stereotypes.

I don't quite get this - surely you're aware that it wasn't the Hip-Hop community that came up with the idea of black people calling each other "nigga"/"nigger"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 8 August 2004 13:14 (nineteen years ago) link

J Lo got pulled up on calling Puffy her nigga by the media, and explained that Latins who live in the slums have always used the word the same way black people have. So it's only just accepted that Latin people use it, it seems strange that two white rappers (i'm certain White Dawg aint Latino, but then i've seen photos of Paul Wall where he looks Latino so who knows) are using it after Em got into so much trouble. White Boy, a mixed race rapper from Chicago, has never used it as far as i can tell. I guess i'm more interested in the sociological implications??? I mean, i'd say that the ghettos in London are much less racially segregated than in the US, but i don't know a white person who'd dare say the word in this context.

I keep thinking of Puddn'head Wilson in relationship to this question. Do you think this stems from some poor white people in the Southern states historically having the same status as black people due to mixed ancestry etc? (admittedly i know fuck all about this, i'm just kind of interested).

scg, Sunday, 8 August 2004 13:27 (nineteen years ago) link

do black people in the UK use that word???

I know very little about the subject also: it's tricky to distinguish race from class in the USA, and to figure out how they interact: I mean, sure, some poor white folks lived under the same exploitation that black ppl did, and in some cases that lead to solidarity, but, erhm, then there's that whole lynching business...

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 8 August 2004 13:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Clowns. Whyte Dawg is Steve Rifkin!

addy, Sunday, 8 August 2004 14:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Nick?

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Sunday, 8 August 2004 15:33 (nineteen years ago) link

It's a word that needs swift retiring,....in any/every context.
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), August 8th, 2004.

I think the opposite. I think everyone should say it all the time, in any situation until it doesn't mean anything any more.

David Allen (David Allen), Sunday, 8 August 2004 16:36 (nineteen years ago) link

in america anyone who grew up around the word and knows it inherently can use it. i (a white boy)can't say it, but i know white dudes who can. the strangest i heard was an arab and a black call each other theyr niggas

Peter $24, Sunday, 8 August 2004 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link

"It's a word that needs swift retiring,....in any/every context.
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), August 8th, 2004.

I think the opposite. I think everyone should say it all the time, in any situation until it doesn't mean anything any more.

-- David Allen (Davidalle...), August 8th, 2004."

ugh
the word has specific meanings that are respected by cultures with integrity

Peter $23, Sunday, 8 August 2004 16:51 (nineteen years ago) link

What about the cultures without integrity?

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Sunday, 8 August 2004 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link

it's classic when mark e. smith says "where are all the obligatory niggers?" on the opening track of hex enduction hr.

russignol, Sunday, 8 August 2004 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Pavement wimped out of saying that when the covered it. I wonder why they even fucking bothered.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link

I blame all of their missteps on the Marc Jacobs manpurse.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:02 (nineteen years ago) link

this thread should obv end about pavement and a bunch of indie names anyone who's said nigger's never heard of outside of that guy who directed kill bill.

i saw him on leno the other night. what a cool fucking dweeb. remember what he said "dead nigger storage"

peter $42, Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link

we're talking about white rappers?

russignol, Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:11 (nineteen years ago) link

kind of

peter @-3, Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Pavement wimped out of saying that when the covered it. I wonder why they even fucking bothered.

I think that criticism would be more pointed if it weren't for the fact that the only lyric that they kept from the original was "I never felt better in my life." They pretty much wrote a whole new song on the spot with the same chords and that refrain.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:15 (nineteen years ago) link

also not rappers but:
Oblivians "Nigger Rich"
System of a Down "Shame on a Nigga" (yes, Serj says it)

AaronHz (AaronHz), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I blame all of their missteps on the Marc Jacobs manpurse.

*befuddled, googles*

This is a manpurse?

http://images.eluxury.com/assets_server/product/10407680/p10407680_ph_hero.jpg

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 8 August 2004 18:45 (nineteen years ago) link

three years pass...

severe

what you think thirty three and the glock is for?! use the n word an pray y don't play. strict n word-bound

mkcaine, Monday, 14 April 2008 21:16 (sixteen years ago) link

never ban?

M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 14 April 2008 22:30 (sixteen years ago) link

Necro has said it on a couple of tunes, altho obvs he is a crazy murderer who has "killed thousands of people" so nobody's going to complain.

Bodrick III, Monday, 14 April 2008 23:01 (sixteen years ago) link

System of a Down "Shame on a Nigga" (yes, Serj says it)
-- AaronHz (AaronHz), Sunday, August 8, 2004 5:17 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

imagining serj imitating odb is making me snicker in the library

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 14 April 2008 23:13 (sixteen years ago) link

Haha "always"

J Lo got pulled up on calling Puffy her nigga by the media, and explained that Latins who live in the slums have always used the word the same way black people have

(to be honest, though 90% of this usage I hear in New York comes from Puerto Ricans or Dominicans, to the point where it occasionally gets weird: I overheard two guys complaining over the weekend about some guys they didn't like coming into the neighborhood from Harlem, and one of them was like "for real, nigga, we gotta do something about those ... umm ... we gotta do something about that")

nabisco, Monday, 14 April 2008 23:46 (sixteen years ago) link

^^^^^puerto rican dude i know says this ALL THE TIME and way more than black people i know. tho part of that might also be less self-censoring in front of whites

deej, Monday, 14 April 2008 23:50 (sixteen years ago) link

u know fat joe?

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 15 April 2008 02:19 (sixteen years ago) link

C: As a Puerto Rican rapper, have you ever been criticized for using the N Word?

Fat Joe: No absolutely not. Because blacks and Latinos anywhere you go in any hood, any ghetto, we’re right beside each other, and with each other all the time especially in New York City. They’ve been calling me “that nigga” my whole life. I go to Africa, and the Africans say “what’s up Fat Joe my nigga-ah?” So they don’t have a problem with it. It’s a term of endearment.

C: What about your response to people who don’t think like you or someone like Khaled who’s a Palestinian-American should be using the word?

Fat Joe: I guess Khaled is a sand-nigga. He’s a sand-nigga. (Laughs) Khaled that nigga, did you ask the 36 black rappers that are on his album with him if they have a problem with it?

Alex in Baltimore, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 02:33 (sixteen years ago) link

sand-nigga

i think about the incomprehensibility of this phrase like once a week

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 15 April 2008 02:39 (sixteen years ago) link

j0 gettin his big word on

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 02:41 (sixteen years ago) link

:D

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 02:42 (sixteen years ago) link

who was it that clowned me for saying gza was very self-aware & articulate about his creative process (vs. romantic "it just comes out of me" notion of the artist) by saying "HE GOT HIS BIG WORDS ON, SON!"

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 02:43 (sixteen years ago) link


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